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Originally Posted by Yamato_Iouko
Setting aside the fact that the US coast isn't a straight line and I'm sure there's a way to jigsaw that map so it works, that comes off as an immensely egotistical thing to say, especially since some of us think your 'corrections' are a load and that the writing staff is a lot better than you give credit.
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You certainly can jigsaw it, however anyway you draw a border to cut off Nerva from the rest of the Isles would look weird. Now granted I don't know anything about how coastal borders get drawn, but from what I'm seeing any kind of border drawn around nerva would look wrong, unless it also cut off St.Martial.
heck with how close Nerva is to Cap, you couldn't go on a fishing boat withtout infringing on the border.
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When I first played through this arc where she dies, I was playing with a couple of buddies and my comment to them was....|
Originally Posted by Melancton
Maybe he entered the Mutara Nebula.
 Excellent question. Purportedly, he is "flying around to clear his head" as opposed to wreaking havoc on the perps who offed his daughter, or even investigating it. As you say, a lot of holes. |
"Stupid move to kill his daugther, there is nothing in the world that can stop him or would stop him from getting to the people who did this and ripping their heads off. No force, not even Tilman could convince him to not go after them"
I never envisioned a father, someone who's only daughter was viciously killed long after her 'crime fighting career' was over..... going off somewhere to 'clear his head' instead of utterly destroying each ... and every... person responsible for her death. Up to and including her uncle who might not have even known about it. With all his power and if he would have struck fast, no one could have been prepared to prevent that.
That even somehow 'knew' that he wouldn't come directly after them, not even Malaise who was in jail. They somehow 'knew' he would just go off by himself. That to me, is atypical for what a father would do upon the wrongful death of his one and only daughter.
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Personally, if I had a power-stealing obelisk, I'd probably want the world's most powerful hero to come try and solo me on my home turf. Just sayin'.
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Originally Posted by Cosmic_Herald
When I first played through this arc where she dies, I was playing with a couple of buddies and my comment to them was....
"Stupid move to kill his daugther, there is nothing in the world that can stop him or would stop him from getting to the people who did this and ripping their heads off. No force, not even Tilman could convince him to not go after them" I never envisioned a father, someone who's only daughter was viciously killed long after her 'crime fighting career' was over..... going off somewhere to 'clear his head' instead of utterly destroying each ... and every... person responsible for her death. Up to and including her uncle who might not have even known about it. With all his power and if he would have struck fast, no one could have been prepared to prevent that. |
***SPOILERS*****
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I LOL'd. |
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Alexis' death served two purposes. One, as has been noted, was psychological warfare against the Freedom Phalanx. Get Ms. Liberty, Statesman, and Manticore all fighting with each other. The other reason, revealed only in the villain arcs, was because Wade intended to carry out a ritual that would get him some Statesman-empowered blood (apparently not realizing that it can be purchased at the Black Market for a fairly insignificant amount of influence). |
Lazarillo, as far as I know you are not a Dev.
You make as good an explanation for a number of things that can be made. Some make some sense, some do not appear to ultimately hold water, but that is more of a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" thing, and it is not incumbent upon you to defend the thinking. So thank you for pointing some things out that I had not considered, and for providing the villain content, which I never play. You explained the logic of the authors very well. 
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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A point that the 116 year-old Marcus Cole would probably realize. Honestly, Statesman probably realizes those responsible will be brought in and just needs to get away from his granddaughter for a while. Considering the apparent no-holds-barred argument the two had at the funeral, I would imagine ANYONE would need to get away for a while.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Personally, if I had a power-stealing obelisk, I'd probably want the world's most powerful hero to come try and solo me on my home turf. Just sayin'.
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"And of course, Steven Jay Blum is in it...He's the Sam Jackson of anime." -AmuroNT1
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I realize opinions will vary, but I've actually been reasonably impressed with the writing in the signature arcs. My one big beef with the story (Wade showing up to assist the Midnighters against the Rulu-shin in part 2) ended up being a nice little bit of foreshadowing that I had really put beyond them. But yeah, since a lot of the motive has been concealed in the background, only the villains who are a part of that background work really get to see it.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
Lazarillo, as far as I know you are not a Dev.
You make as good an explanation for a number of things that can be made. Some make some sense, some do not appear to ultimately hold water, but that is more of a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" thing, and it is not incumbent upon you to defend the thinking. So thank you for pointing some things out that I had not considered, and for providing the villain content, which I never play. You explained the logic of the authors very well. |
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Yeah, I agree, which is probably why Statesman is "off clearing his head" rather than "raining Zeus' Lightning upon any and all offenders" at this point.
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Originally Posted by Yamato_Iouko
A point that the 116 year-old Marcus Cole would probably realize. Honestly, Statesman probably realizes those responsible will be brought in and just needs to get away from his granddaughter for a while. Considering the apparent no-holds-barred argument the two had at the funeral, I would imagine ANYONE would need to get away for a while.
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That's kind of what I feel like people don't get about Marcus sometimes. He may look young, but he's lived what's essentially two lifetimes. If you lived that long, a lot of things will hit you differently than if you're only as old as you look (20s-30s at the most?). It's not like Alexis was taken before she had a life of her own, her adult daughter had taken over her old position.|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Yeah, I agree, which is probably why Statesman is "off clearing his head" rather than "raining Zeus' Lightning upon any and all offenders" at this point.
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The other thing is that Marcus doesn't seem to blame the villains. It's almost like he sees them as animals behaving on nature than as people. Where does he saddle most of the blame? His wreckless granddaughter who was foolish enough to think that Jean-Pierre Lourdin could be reformed and ended up costing them both a dear family member. He's just sick of the collective drama and wants a break from it and Ms. Liberty's drama.
"And of course, Steven Jay Blum is in it...He's the Sam Jackson of anime." -AmuroNT1
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The relationship between Statesman and Ms. Liberty has been portrayed as ferociously antagonistic. (See "Bite me" from the comics, etc.) It does not wear well with me; the Devs appear to think it is fantastic.
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Originally Posted by Yamato_Iouko
A point that the 116 year-old Marcus Cole would probably realize. Honestly, Statesman probably realizes those responsible will be brought in and just needs to get away from his granddaughter for a while. Considering the apparent no-holds-barred argument the two had at the funeral, I would imagine ANYONE would need to get away for a while.
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"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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I wouldn't say they think it's fantastic, it's just who she is. She's a lot like Marcus, so they butt heads, but she's also so much younger and brash. Not to mention she's lived in his shadow her whole life, and she wants to be able to be herself without having an ideal to live up to. The honestly really love this idea the two got into it at Alexis' funeral, because it's clear Miss Liberty was one of the few things keeping these two on speaking terms, and communication just breaks down RIGHT THERE in the middle of this major public event. It shows neither of them are perfect, that Marcus for a moment doesn't care about the public's feelings on how he looks with this outburst, and it shows Megan has a real problem with feeling empathy for her grandfather.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
The relationship between Statesman and Ms. Liberty has been portrayed as ferociously antagonistic. (See "Bite me" from the comics, etc.) It does not wear well with me; the Devs appear to think it is fantastic.
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"And of course, Steven Jay Blum is in it...He's the Sam Jackson of anime." -AmuroNT1
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It's Venture. That's what he does.|
Originally Posted by Yamato_Iouko
Setting aside the fact that the US coast isn't a straight line and I'm sure there's a way to jigsaw that map so it works, that comes off as an immensely egotistical thing to say, especially since some of us think your 'corrections' are a load and that the writing staff is a lot better than you give credit.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
So, that's okay, but the Longbow taking on villains who do just that...isn't?
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah, but that's ignoring the fact that, if he bumps off Zsasz 'for the greater good', what's to stop him killing Joker? He's at least twice as bad. And then Scarecrow, Riddler, Penguin, Bane (that'd be tough) all the others...
But then what about anyone else 'evil'? Who would define evil? That's the point. Once you cross the line, it's only a downward spiral. |
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Yeah, I agree, which is probably why Statesman is "off clearing his head" rather than "raining Zeus' Lightning upon any and all offenders" at this point.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I will miss Statesman terribly, and I feel I've understood him for a long time. I've seen the parallels to another long-lived character of great power, someone who could be considered a god.
His name is the Doctor. Nearly a thousand years old, responsible for the death of his race, his family, everyone he ever loved. I'm not going to say anymore than that, because I have these Youtube clips that say it far better than I ever, ever could.
Look at these and tell me you can't hear Statesman in there. And all I want to do is tell him it's okay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=uz_1HQY32LA
These are his words, surely?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEwKN...yer_detailpage
This scene says to me all that I can think of about how he feels losing someone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij_LP...yer_detailpage
And this little music video sums him up, I think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=IUld2qcyNpw
Try standing in those shoes for a while and see if you think he's someone you can hate. I don't.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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I suppose it is the difference between "Hamlet" and "Spock's Brain": One author conveys inner torment and divided passions in a way audiences generally appreciate, and the other does it in a way audiences generally condemn.|
Originally Posted by Yamato_Iouko
It shows neither of them are perfect, that Marcus for a moment doesn't care about the public's feelings on how he looks with this outburst, and it shows Megan has a real problem with feeling empathy for her grandfather.
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Please understand, you explained the Devs intentions as well as can be done, and I thank you for your take on them.
The Devs' execution of those intentions is like a two-by-four between the eyes: not very subtle and not very enjoyable.
Perhaps if Hamlet had said "Biteth me" to Gertrude and Claudius I would enjoy the Devs' delicate touch in portraying Ms. Liberty and her grandfather more.
As it is, it is a straw man and a straw woman having manufactured uberdramatic conflict and it just rankles me.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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As someone who's bickered with family over stupid things, I find their interactions very organic. :P
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Originally Posted by Melancton
I suppose it is the difference between "Hamlet" and "Spock's Brain": One author conveys inner torment and divided passions in a way audiences generally appreciate, and the other does it in a way audiences generally condemn.
Please understand, you explained the Devs intentions as well as can be done, and I thank you for your take on them. The Devs' execution of those intentions is like a two-by-four between the eyes: not very subtle and not very enjoyable. Perhaps if Hamlet had said "Biteth me" to Gertrude and Claudius I would enjoy the Devs' delicate touch in portraying Ms. Liberty and her grandfather more. As it is, it is a straw man and a straw woman having manufactured uberdramatic conflict and it just rankles me. |
"And of course, Steven Jay Blum is in it...He's the Sam Jackson of anime." -AmuroNT1
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Course, that might be why he has to die. He may come back and the hero folks have to put him down for going WAY over-the-top out of control with the beating to death of every criminal he sees.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Yeah, I agree, which is probably why Statesman is "off clearing his head" rather than "raining Zeus' Lightning upon any and all offenders" at this point.
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
I will miss Statesman terribly, and I feel I've understood him for a long time. I've seen the parallels to another long-lived character of great power, someone who could be considered a god.
His name is the Doctor. Nearly a thousand years old, responsible for the death of his race, his family, everyone he ever loved. I'm not going to say anymore than that, because I have these Youtube clips that say it far better than I ever, ever could. Look at these and tell me you can't hear Statesman in there. And all I want to do is tell him it's okay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=uz_1HQY32LA These are his words, surely? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEwKN...yer_detailpage This scene says to me all that I can think of about how he feels losing someone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij_LP...yer_detailpage And this little music video sums him up, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=IUld2qcyNpw Try standing in those shoes for a while and see if you think he's someone you can hate. I don't. S. |
I was actually thinking about that with regards to some of my responses. Statesman's about a 1/10th the age of the Doctor, but even with that, Marcus Cole is the better part of a century older than the man he's usually compared to, Clark Kent. Clark has the luxury of naivety because he's a kid compared to Statesman. When you see these characters that live longer than humans, you have to think about how these things weigh on them, and the fact that they realize they might be nowhere near their end. That these things will keep piling on. Honestly, I think having Marcus die before he lives to be over 1100 years old is merciful, considering how much having lived so long is already wearing on him.
My only question is HOW will he be killed?
"And of course, Steven Jay Blum is in it...He's the Sam Jackson of anime." -AmuroNT1
Yamato, do remember that the Doctor is Galifrean and comes from a race where very long lifespans are normal, so they may have evolved a way of coping with that sort of stuff.
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True, but he also has major guilt issues over things he shouldn't. The point I was getting at is people who have experienced a lot aren't going to react the same as some younger person in their twenties or thirties.
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Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
Yamato, do remember that the Doctor is Galifrean and comes from a race where very long lifespans are normal, so they may have evolved a way of coping with that sort of stuff.
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"And of course, Steven Jay Blum is in it...He's the Sam Jackson of anime." -AmuroNT1
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Perhaps so....but I think the parallel is perfect, as there's so few characters with that particular mix of power and age in many mediums at all anymore. |
Originally Posted by Yamato_Iouko
I was actually thinking about that with regards to some of my responses. Statesman's about a 1/10th the age of the Doctor, but even with that, Marcus Cole is the better part of a century older than the man he's usually compared to, Clark Kent. Clark has the luxury of naivety because he's a kid compared to Statesman. When you see these characters that live longer than humans, you have to think about how these things weigh on them, and the fact that they realize they might be nowhere near their end. That these things will keep piling on. Honestly, I think having Marcus die before he lives to be over 1100 years old is merciful, considering how much having lived so long is already wearing on him.
My only question is HOW will he be killed? |
I think he'll do something self-sacrificing in the end. He has every ability to not be killed, and I think he'll choose to be, in order to save someone else. I think back to The End of Time and how the Doctor had every reason not to save Wilf, but he did anyways...because he was a hero.
So's Statesman.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's for non-meta-story stuff - all the phasing events don't affect the meta-story at all - for example, siding with Cleopatra or Washington has zero effect on the meta-story, just like the Arachnos attack on Atlas Park - the content that follows both those phasing events isn't affected by them.
Statesman's death will have a major impact on the meta-story, which would require two realities to follow on from it if it wasn't a game wide event - like when the Battalion arrives, there'd have to be content where Statesman wasn't around to fight them, and then the same content, only with him him still alive and leading the Freedom Phalanx. All meta-story changes happen to everyone, even if players don't take part in the events that lead to the changes. |
But then, what is the point of playing the arc anymore if it does NOT have any consequences? I mean, if Statesman is removed from the ground up already before a new character is even created, what difference does it make if they play that arc ever?
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Arc ID 1435: Performing without Annette
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Arc ID 3864: The Chronicles of (In)FERNIA!
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Originally Posted by CaptainMoodswing
But then, what is the point of playing the arc anymore if it does NOT have any consequences? I mean, if Statesman is removed from the ground up already before a new character is even created, what difference does it make if they play that arc ever?
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As much as I hate this whole Kill Statesman off thing....
I wonder if the phasing tech they have in place would or will allow for someone who has done the arc will see "X" standing giving out the Task Force and someone who has never done the arc will see Statesman standing there?
Or
Perhaps they will replace the character anyway and simple 'write it off' during some text blast or something.
"Yes Statesman used to organize this Task Force. However, with his death in the early part of 2012, I had to step in to make sure Lord Recluse didn't strike now that Statesman is no longer here. I need you $$character to step up with your Task Force and take the fight to Recluse!"
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Because the meta-story needs a single reality - Statesman can't be dead or not dead depending on if you ran certain bit of content or not - just like there's no option for Galaxy City to survive, or for the the 5th Column not to return.|
Originally Posted by CaptainMoodswing
But then, what is the point of playing the arc anymore if it does NOT have any consequences? I mean, if Statesman is removed from the ground up already before a new character is even created, what difference does it make if they play that arc ever?
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The meta-story needs game-wide events to stay coherent, not optional outcomes.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Also, here's a wacky idea - maybe they'll upgrade the Admiral Sutter TF to 50 as a replacement for the STF? It's in the same zone, and it'd bring it into line with all the rest of the Praetorian invasion content, which starts at 50.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I wont claim to know the how or why.
What I suspect is this is just long overdue. the shadow of jack has kind of haunted paragon since cryptic moved on. No one Ive met has ever argued it felt wrong letting any other employee run states for live events etc. So its time to end him. Also with Tyrant and reichsman becoming more promiment, the best way to really make them more imposing is to remove our own version to put us at a disadvantage in the meta arms race.
Especially because now slowly but surely, due to the incarnate story arc. when we finally finish it will be considered more powerful then statesman in lore content. And haters over at Champions call us city of sidekicks yeah right lol.
"And of course, Steven Jay Blum is in it...He's the Sam Jackson of anime." -AmuroNT1