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Well that's not true.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Because the meta-story needs a single reality - Statesman can't be dead or not dead depending on if you ran certain bit of content or not - just like there's no option for Galaxy City to survive, or for the the 5th Column not to return.
The meta-story needs game-wide events to stay coherent, not optional outcomes. |
Statesman can be kidnapped (when he was in that old arc) and still be on the boat giving a TF.
We also mostly had to assume the world we experienced at lower levels happened chronologically before the world we experienced at higher levels.
At level 20, it's "Lost?? What are these folks?" At later levels, we learn the secret.
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Hm good point Id not thought about if they might use the new tech seen so well used in First Ward to allow those who have yet to play through the death of statesman to still seem him around the city. That could very well be as he is just a static NPC most of the time. |
Originally Posted by Cosmic_Herald
As much as I hate this whole Kill Statesman off thing....
I wonder if the phasing tech they have in place would or will allow for someone who has done the arc will see "X" standing giving out the Task Force and someone who has never done the arc will see Statesman standing there? Or Perhaps they will replace the character anyway and simple 'write it off' during some text blast or something. "Yes Statesman used to organize this Task Force. However, with his death in the early part of 2012, I had to step in to make sure Lord Recluse didn't strike now that Statesman is no longer here. I need you $$character to step up with your Task Force and take the fight to Recluse!" |
My biggest pondering is how it may effect the hero's hero story arc. It saw small updates with GR. Like maybe we can if we play it right get to have the experiance of saving statesman and knowing he saw us as true equals before we see him fall.
Personally i say good riddance though to the red white and blue. Soon Crey will be able to protect humanity without his meddling.
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Im fairly certain its even been officially stated it is WAI to be seen like that. Your level has a direct relationship with what you should consider your character having access to knowledge of. Heck its the reason certain RP concepts I make I dont even actually write bios for or even use the name i intend to until I cap them. like I am going to say I am some immortal being at lvl 1. dont think so. Or some super bio weapon capable of destroying cities. yeah right not till I solo my first AV at least.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Well that's not true.
Statesman can be kidnapped (when he was in that old arc) and still be on the boat giving a TF. We also mostly had to assume the world we experienced at lower levels happened chronologically before the world we experienced at higher levels. At level 20, it's "Lost?? What are these folks?" At later levels, we learn the secret. |
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That's not a meta-story event - it's a problem that comes up and then gets fixed, returning the game world to its normal state - like the Arachnos invasion of Atlas Park, or the spirit world problems in Croatoa - experiencing them or not experiencing them doesn't change the game world.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Statesman can be kidnapped (when he was in that old arc) and still be on the boat giving a TF.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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DOES it?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Because the meta-story needs a single reality
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...why?
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I suspect both the STF and the LRSF will be more or less redone from the ground up. If the Phalanx breaks up, and with both Statesman and Malaise dead, there's going to have to be some serious revamps to the villainside TF, and obviously, and just giving someone else the same TF as Statesman had would be kinda "eh". So I suspect both those two will be relegated to Ouroboros or the like, and we'll get two brand new, endgame-worthy TFs in their place. And I do mean "new", not a lame "Sutter and Kal get promoted".
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Originally Posted by fallenz
Or they will give a new contact and name for the STF and keep it for the most part the same.
Ughh I hope they do not get rid of the STF but just fix it up for the changes. Sutter TF is fun but it's a good mid level taskforce. And I think the playerbase is getting tired of the Praetorian invasion right now and it's time for moving on to other threats, like Lord Recluse, the return of the 5th or I do not know hello Nemesis? |
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1) Consistency.|
Originally Posted by CaptainMoodswing
DOES it?
...why? |
2) Supportability. Yeah, I made that word up.
Paragon Studios has to maintain the world once they add something to it. That means that they design it to require the minimum amount of upkeep in order to focus their primary effort on future development. A world that is a mish-mash of conflicting timelines is confusing to players and annoying for support staff to maintain.
If it's something that can be expressed via phasing, then sure, it could happen. That's not a case of multiple realities, it's just a case of personalized story progression. A world where Galaxy City is both whole and decimated at the same time is a world with a conflicting reality. A world where Statesman is simultaneously alive and dead is a world with a conflicting reality. A world where I see Matthew Habashy's wife because I rescued her and you don't because you didn't, is a world that is internally consistent; you just haven't progressed through the story as far as I have.
That's the extent to which you can "fudge" the appearance of the world. The game engine is not built to handle the management of inconsistent universes co-existing with each other.
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Because it needs a massive increase in required content and developer time and resources to support more than one game-wide reality.|
Originally Posted by CaptainMoodswing
DOES it?
...why? |
Meta-story events are a plot points that shape the entire game world for every single player - fora good example, look at Galaxy City.
Even if players skip the tutorial ro start in Praetoria, Galaxy City is still destroyed - that's the default status for the zone in the meta-story - there's no option to play in a reality where it didn't happen, because that would require to much extra work to support it.
If the destruction of Galaxy City was optional, then they'd need another co-op tutorial zone - and then they'd need to phase out all the refugees in Atlas Park - and then they'd need to create new low level arcs to replace the current ones, which all revolve around the fall of Galaxy City - then they'd need to create an alternative version of Twinshot's 3 arcs to avoid the impact the fall of Galaxy City has on their storyline - and then we get content where the Battalion arrives - but there'd have to be 2 versions, to cover for the fact that Galaxy City mightn't have been destroyed by their Shivan scouts.
And the same goes for Statesman - the next time Ms. Liberty appears in some content, is she affected by his death, or is she carrying on as normal because he's still alive?
Is Positron now the leader of the Freedom Phalanx, or is Statesman still leading them?
The next time we encounter Recluse, is he still plotting the downfall of his former best friend, or has Statesman's death changed him in any way?
If Hero 1 is cured, is he happy to see the man he planned the world saving Alpha and Omega Gambit with again, or is he sad that he never got the chance to meet Statesman again before his death?
Is the friction between Manticore and Statesman growing worse because Statesman is still putting some blame on him for his part in the death of his daughter, or has the death of Statesman changed Manticore's vigilante outlook?
Does the death of Statesman affect Prometheus' plans and the Well of the Furies, or is it business as usual, because he's still alive?
The meta-story advances quite slowly, but when it does advance, it must have a game-wide effect - there have to be certain basic truths about the game world that form a solid base for the developers to continue to advance the meta-story.
Here are some more meta-story events:
The Council defeats the 5th Column.
Recluse starts Operation: Destiny.
Rebuilding starts in Faultline.
The Rikti invade for a 2nd time.
The Vanguard becomes a major world organization.
The Menders of Ouroboros arrive.
Sister Psyche and Manticore get married.
A time portal is opened to Cimerora.
The Midnight Squad starts looking for new recruits.
The 5th Column returns.
Tyrant launches his invasion of Primal Earth.
The Well of the Furies "wakes up".
Prometheus shows up at the Ouroboros Citadel.
Galaxy City is destroyed by Shivan meteorites.
None of these are optional, because each one has advanced the world storyline in some way, and later content has followed up on them, because all the story arcs, TFs, Trials and other content need to be based on a single game-wide reality.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
You know, The Artiste has a few nukes with his own private launch codes orbiting the planet, courtesy of Warburg and its lax security. If Marcus and Megan won't do something about the death of Alexis, I have a feeling that Artiste might be willing to pull the trigger. He thinks Paragon City is just a big dream sequence, anyway...
The unasked question is, where do you inter the body so it wont be defiled and defaced by every two bit thug and enemy he's made in the last 80 years?
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This is precisely why Paragon City needs Statesman alot more than it needs Manticore. The city needs hope, not vengeance, it needs to have its foremost hero believe in the system rather than arbitrarily discarding it when it gets personal, it needs to know someone up there is looking out for its people instead of just punishing villains.|
Originally Posted by Cosmic_Herald
I never envisioned a father, someone who's only daughter was viciously killed long after her 'crime fighting career' was over..... going off somewhere to 'clear his head' instead of utterly destroying each ... and every... person responsible for her death. Up to and including her uncle who might not have even known about it. With all his power and if he would have struck fast, no one could have been prepared to prevent that.
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The worst you can accuse Statesman at this point is seeking solitude to grieve the death of his daughter, just as he once did when his wife died.
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Actually he went to the Rogue Isles to crack a beer with Recluse.
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Originally Posted by Zemblanity
This is precisely why Paragon City needs Statesman alot more than it needs Manticore. The city needs hope, not vengeance, it needs to have its foremost hero believe in the system rather than arbitrarily discarding it when it gets personal, it needs to know someone up there is looking out for its people instead of just punishing villains.
The worst you can accuse Statesman at this point is seeking solitude to grieve the death of his daughter, just as he once did when his wife died. |
Hmmm...they said Statesman dies. They say a Freedom Phalanx member will die.
But this is just part 5. What if Statesman does die, but comes back in this arc, and a different member of the Freedom Phalanx (or Surviving Eight) dies at the end?
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If Paragon pulls a Steve Rogers & the Time Bullet I'm never reading content again.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Hmmm...they said Statesman dies. They say a Freedom Phalanx member will die.
But this is just part 5. What if Statesman does die, but comes back in this arc, and a different member of the Freedom Phalanx (or Surviving Eight) dies at the end? |
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Knock yourself out. Google Earth is cheap and readily available. Go find a spot on the east coast of the US that's NW of Bermuda, just outside US territorial waters and allows you to place the Rogue Isles so that the east edge of the chain is closer to the east coast than the west edge of the chain.| Setting aside the fact that the US coast isn't a straight line and I'm sure there's a way to jigsaw that map so it works, that comes off as an immensely egotistical thing to say, |
We'll wait.
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| especially since some of us think your 'corrections' are a load and that the writing staff is a lot better than you give credit. |
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No idea of that storyline. But I was thinking inthe last SSA, final mission, Statesman could arrive alive and well to help defeat the big bad right as another member falls permanently.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
If Paragon pulls a Steve Rogers & the Time Bullet I'm never reading content again.
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Not likely to happen, as I think they just want to get rid of Statesman. But it was a thought.
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Knowing some of the more vocal members of the player base, they will instead want a chance to be one of those defacers.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The unasked question is, where do you inter the body so it wont be defiled and defaced by every two bit thug and enemy he's made in the last 80 years?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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You raise it as a super powered zombie so the body can fight back when defiled and defaced.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The unasked question is, where do you inter the body so it wont be defiled and defaced by every two bit thug and enemy he's made in the last 80 years?
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Let's kick it up a notch: statesman's gravestone is also his grave, when someone attempts to defile it, it transforms into a giant mecha called "The Memoria-tron" piloted by Statesman's reanimated, zombified remains.
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Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
You raise it as a super powered zombie so the body can fight back when defiled and defaced.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Captain America 'dying.' Shot hardcore. "It was a temporal round! It sent him back in time!"|
Originally Posted by BrandX
No idea of that storyline. But I was thinking inthe last SSA, final mission, Statesman could arrive alive and well to help defeat the big bad right as another member falls permanently.
Not likely to happen, as I think they just want to get rid of Statesman. But it was a thought. |
Oh no, Marvel. He was dead.
People were so ticked off that Bucky took up the mantle after Steve got royally shot that they explained it away as a temporal shift round. DUMB.
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Actually, fans really liked Bucky as Cap. That's why he retained the mantle even after Steve came back (just like DG.) |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Captain America 'dying.' Shot hardcore. "It was a temporal round! It sent him back in time!"
Oh no, Marvel. He was dead. People were so ticked off that Bucky took up the mantle after Steve got royally shot that they explained it away as a temporal shift round. DUMB. |
Jason Todd, Bucky Barnes, Uncle Ben.
Give it time.
And while I'm here, just because it bugs me: that earlier article you mentioned about Mary Sues is total bunk.
Luke Skywalker is a Mary Sue, as much as Bella Swan and the others are.
It's not a gender-assigned title unless you let it be. If you say that Mary Sue can't be applied to males, that's the only reason why it can't. I can even go down the list.
He's named after the guy that made the movie.
Every character in the movie that's of the opposite gender is connected to him. (his aunt is murdered to inspire him to hate the empire, and princess leia is his love interest - in episode 4 that is, "before" she becomes his sister)
Every character that's classified as a villain is depicted as starkly different to him, and that includes their ultimate weapon, the death star (which is a giant breast, but that starts getting into sexism, and is neither here nor there)
he wears white, and the other characters who do either have to be rescued by him, die, or are subservient to him.
He outdoes other people at what they do best despite their decades of practice, with little more explanation than "plot be with you." All the while, he's simultaneously "the rookie" and "the veteran," which indicates obscenely high favoritism towards a single character in a story.
The same rules apply to most heroic characters, and they're put under a harsher lens for scrutiny simply because long ago many superhero writers MADE these mistakes.
Superman before kryptonite, Wonder Woman before... ropes?, Batman, of course...
But then most superheroes are simply guilty of this because of different writers taking things in different directions.
You can have a story where Superman's at his best, has all his powers, and the story still ends TRAGICALLY because Superman absolutely refuses to go beyond certain limits, refuses to hurt people, refuses to take away their freedoms. Take, for example, when Gotham became "No man's land" and Superman helped a single guy get the power plant back into working order. In just under a day suddenly things looked great for the city - until people came up to that one guy and started bribing him to get their power back first. When superman came back to check in on it, he was shocked to discover that things were becoming corrupt, but he couldn't change it. The city was simply not capable of running normally.
And people love to rag on batman but that's more because there are a LOT of comics about Batman. In some of them he's "the god damn batman," in others he's not quite so full-blown *******. There's always going to be some disparity between one comic and another because different people are writing them, and heck, it doesn't even have to be different people! It can just be one writer getting older and forgetting something.
That being said, Batman's been through a lot of getting the crap beat out of him.
It's all worth it though when it leads to stuff like this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...anArkhamAsylum
you could have it all
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Oz, I think there are two distinct Statesman(s) (Statesmen? lol) in the mix.|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
I will miss Statesman terribly, and I feel I've understood him for a long time. I've seen the parallels to another long-lived character of great power, someone who could be considered a god.
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The first is the History of Paragon City backstory Statesman, who was best presented by Troy Hickman. Troy began, in his arc, to examine the aspects of Marcus Cole outliving pretty much everyone he knew and teaming with probably thousands of different heroes over the course of his career. The "worst nightmare" sequence scripted by Troy was another facet of this particular Statesman. This is the guy you are describing.
The other Statesman is what I call the "straw-man dill-weed" Statesman. That guy is repulsively arrogant, self-righteous and unpleasant, allowing other characters, especially Manticore, to look good in contrast by playing off of him. He acts like a prize jerk in pretty much every situation he is in. He is a straw man whom the Devs repeatedly knock down.
The first Statesman I shall miss. The second Statesman was designed with such a repulsive personna that I can only presume the desired response is to be glad he is gone.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Mary Sue IS gender specific. The male counterparts are called Gary/Marty Sues.|
Originally Posted by Party_Kake
Jason Todd, Bucky Barnes, Uncle Ben.
Give it time. And while I'm here, just because it bugs me: that earlier article you mentioned about Mary Sues is total bunk. Luke Skywalker is a Mary Sue, as much as Bella Swan and the others are. It's not a gender-assigned title unless you let it be. If you say that Mary Sue can't be applied to males, that's the only reason why it can't. I can even go down the list. |
And I'd agree that Luke Skywalker is one but only in the OT. He's far more fallible in the books.
Oh, and Uncle Ben hasn't actually been resurected before. Watch for the internet blow-up due to Fanboy Rage if/when that happens!
Ughh I hope they do not get rid of the STF but just fix it up for the changes. Sutter TF is fun but it's a good mid level taskforce. And I think the playerbase is getting tired of the Praetorian invasion right now and it's time for moving on to other threats, like Lord Recluse, the return of the 5th or I do not know hello Nemesis?