Player Summit Ustream Highlights: Keynote and opening Q and A
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2011-11-19 13:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I love that effect, and it's going away. They're removing the fog effect and just going for night. After doing that, the citizen ghost effect looked rather ugly, so they canned that effect.|
Originally Posted by Ideon
What inhabitants? All that remains of citizens in Dark Astoria are ghosts. :3 I love how you see them walking about but when you move closer... they're just not even there anymore...
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Adamastor, the demon brought forth by the Banished Pantheon to destroy the world, gets no Makeover and will basically the equivalent of a lieutenant in this zone revamp. One if the Devs said with some of the zone restructuring, he looked a bit like a pet scratching at the door (this was during dinner). On the plus side, everything else in zone should be pretty awesome.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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Good question there, and yeah, "fembots" ahoy. :-) It would be neat to have skinnable options for pets, including. A female merc or thug option.
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Originally Posted by Firemoth
The person asking about the Female MM pets was me if you want to add in a name :-p And yes, I'm beating that subject like a dead horse and not letting it go.
They stated there would be a thing in place to prevent duplicates. |
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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Well, my flag idea would be on by default. :-) If people would get coronaries just by knowing they had the choice, even if it was no by default... well, I can't help that. The design was to be I obtrusive but accessible. If you want me to break I down elsewhere other than this thread, lemme know.
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Originally Posted by MAD UMLAUTS
Thanks turg. The whole flag for pvp would backfire with the amount of people who needs to get a triple bypass everytime pvp is mentioned playing this game. But thanks for asking questions about pvp.
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@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
And why am I posting? Cuz my body still thinks it's EST again... up since 430... bleagh.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
stupid, squishy body *shakes fist*
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Great, so the very thing that makes Dark Astoria so intriguing and sinister and has made many, many of us WANT to see its story addressed is going away?!? That's just plain wrong.|
Originally Posted by Turgenev
I love that effect, and it's going away. They're removing the fog effect and just going for night. After doing that, the citizen ghost effect looked rather ugly, so they canned that effect.
Adamastor, the demon brought forth by the Banished Pantheon to destroy the world, gets no Makeover and will basically the equivalent of a lieutenant in this zone revamp. One if the Devs said with some of the zone restructuring, he looked a bit like a pet scratching at the door (this was during dinner). On the plus side, everything else in zone should be pretty awesome. |
Can't they use the phasing tech to, I don't know, keep it for a little while and then make it clear up after we've dealt with the crisis?
Seems REALLY counterproductive to me to get rid of such a distinct characteristic as the fog and disappearing ghost citizens..
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Still reading the thread but...I think you missed the main idea of the 'question' (lol from how the asker described it, it sounded like a speech).|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
"Hi, I want this thing. Other people may not want this thing, but if they don't, they can just be asked not to look at it, even though if my idea is successful, it'll be going on all over the place."
Sorry, but "just avert your eyes if you don't like it" sounds incredibly dismissive. Which I suppose I can understand, coming from someone around here who has interest in PvP - they have to be used to being dismissed themselves. Still, I don't think it's going to get you much backing among PvErs, though. Your idea sounds neat for a ground up approach to a new game. I find it wildly unlikely to come along around here. I expect any future PvP changes/improvements to remain sandboxed in their own parts of the game. I think that's just too ingrained here. |
Although, to come up with an example to take seriously, one kinda has to believe in it, but in all honesty, I don't think Turgenev is telling the devs "oh, you need to implement this to make PvP better" or even "this idea is so awesome!!! put it in the game NAO!!". The general gist I get from his speech is that, PvP is made a subset of the game that people ignore and scoff at *because* it's in a little sandbox. Degenerates have made the experience unpleasant by the way they broadcast or single out players *because* that part of the game is ignored and no one bothers to moderate.
But put it out where people can see it, and people might start to care. Crude language might be moderated a bit harsher if the participants aren't the only ones that care. The idea was just an example or placeholder to get the thought process going to expand PvP into something more natural to the game. Of course, put measures into the game so as not to directly affect players not interested, but it's hardly inconsiderate to tell someone to ignore a part of the game that they already ignore. That it is acceptable to enjoy the game in a different way and be told no because others don't even want to *look* at it...Tolerance is a necessary trait in everyday life. Maybe the game should help us realize this?
My opinion on PvP is, well I'm just not interested in it. I used to when my friends played the game, and drag me to Sirens or something. But now, since I mostly solo and PuG, I don't see a purpose for it. Would I like a reason to go into it? Sure, so long as it's not something I have to stop and devote a whole night of playing to get any meaning behind it.
A zone event that allows a few villains and heroes to duke it out across the city while completing objectives? Or maybe specific lines of missions that are open so that villains/heroes can jump into my instances? Or stuff that generally feels like hero vs villain? I think I could get into stuff like that...
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Wasn't aware a small trick of seeing random citizens disappear on the street was the major draw for Dark Astoria. I thought it was the storyline behind the zone and all the ghosts and Banished Pantheon. Also, no, they can't use the phasing tech 'cause the devs said in another panel that it disrupts zone events, so they prefer to use it sparingly.|
Originally Posted by PsyFox
Great, so the very thing that makes Dark Astoria so intriguing and sinister and has made many, many of us WANT to see its story addressed is going away?!? That's just plain wrong.
Can't they use the phasing tech to, I don't know, keep it for a little while and then make it clear up after we've dealt with the crisis? Seems REALLY counterproductive to me to get rid of such a distinct characteristic as the fog and disappearing ghost citizens.. |
Also, thank god the fog's going away. As neat as it was, Dark Astoria was the worst zone to run around in because of it. They can easily make the zone just as eerie, if not more, with other tricks.
In honor of the fog vanishing, there should be various impacts in the shape of heroes that have unwittingly crashed into buildings.
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I LOVE this idea and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
In honor of the fog vanishing, there should be various impacts in the shape of heroes that have unwittingly crashed into buildings.
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"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
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Yeah, the ideal PvP is dramatic battles that are entertaining to watch. The reality is that MMO PvP ends up being griefers ganking lowbies all day, foul-mouthed bickering, and just an overall unpleasant game. There is plenty of good about MMO PvP. Sadly, it is far overshadowed by the bad, even if the bad is the lesser part.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I'd love to. That's not what PvP would be, except in the case of occasional rigidly contained RP-oriented PvP. Real PvPers would not likely put on entertaining battles. The point of PvP (in any game) is to triumph over other players, not put on a dramatic show. On occasion, those two things overlap. However, I suspect that would be the exception, not the rule.
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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You're aware that it's very likely that most of the people participating in that little argument were over 18, right?
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
I want the five minutes I spent skimming through the topic to see if there was any worthwhile information beyond the OP back. Or alternatively, the Internet forbidden to anyone under the age of 18.
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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See, that annoys me. I totally figured that a zone revamp of DA would ruin its existing character.|
Originally Posted by Turgenev
I love that effect, and it's going away. They're removing the fog effect and just going for night. After doing that, the citizen ghost effect looked rather ugly, so they canned that effect.
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I get that, today, it's a wasted zone. It's wasted because they don't do anything with it, not because it has an annoying character.
Oh, as an aside, I wonder if they are thinking about people getting the BP masks badges. While people used to farm those in Talos at night, for a long time now, it's been easy to get in DA itself. This change will make all the critters in there level 50-54 (at least...) so even if the new zone has BP masks as critters, they will be a lot harder to take on.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
what would be a good idea for pvp, is say a window of opportunity say 30 minutes villains get to start an invasion and a group of heroes would be there to stop them, kinda like Turgenevs idea but invasion style, btw thanks VK for giving us this info nice to see i22 heading our way, i would assume january february time?
still, Dark Control!
btw was there any pics of this at all?
thanks again.
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:P!!
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Originally Posted by Turgenev
And why am I posting? Cuz my body still thinks it's EST again... up since 430... bleagh.
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VIG0S: 1356 badges in counting
Something for ppl to use
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I would LOVE for this to happen just to see how many impacts I can recognize as belonging to my own heroes (though I swear those buildings came out of nowhere officer).
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
In honor of the fog vanishing, there should be various impacts in the shape of heroes that have unwittingly crashed into buildings.
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Thanks to everyone that helped make me a welcomed part of the community, and for giving me over 3 years of some of the best gaming I've been able to take part in. May the next game bring many friendships and maybe reconnect to some old CoH friends.
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I actually always found the pea soup enveloping the zone to be annoying as hell.|
Originally Posted by PsyFox
Great, so the very thing that makes Dark Astoria so intriguing and sinister and has made many, many of us WANT to see its story addressed is going away?!? That's just plain wrong.
Can't they use the phasing tech to, I don't know, keep it for a little while and then make it clear up after we've dealt with the crisis? Seems REALLY counterproductive to me to get rid of such a distinct characteristic as the fog and disappearing ghost citizens.. |
/shrug.
If I actually had to find mission doors with that on I would be more than annoyed.
If they want a non revamped version of it to stay around phased fine, but I don't agree at all that mission doors or anything lvl 50+ should be in there.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Agreed. Honestly, I would find Posi getting a haircut more interesting than ANYONE getting up to ask a "question" and rambling on for two minutes, no matter the topic.|
Originally Posted by Android_5Point9
To be fair, I'd expect the same reaction from anybody asking a question and just rambled on with it. Watching any other Q&A session from cons and the like, hearing people go on and on gets to be pretty darn cringe-worthy. Just so happens the topic is PvP in this particular case. You can't expect updates to everything in such short order. It takes time to process feedback, formulate a long-term solution, and iterate on it. It's that or have things being in flux every other patch (which tends to generally get more ire than it's worth).
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If folks want to monologue the forums exist for that. I didn't think that was the point of the player meetings.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Originally Posted by Melancton
If it is gated behind the idiotic Incarnate lore, with the multiple currencies, etc., then blecch.
Question: Are they going to clarify the Astoria lore with this makeover? How many times has Astoria gone dark? And what about that bad piece of writing that has the authorities sealing Astoria up and allowing the inhabitants to all be butchered because they cannot escape? Hopefully that gets 86'd. |
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Originally Posted by Ideon
What inhabitants? All that remains of citizens in Dark Astoria are ghosts. :3 I love how you see them walking about but when you move closer... they're just not even there anymore...
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix  According to the Paragon Wiki page on Dark Astoria: "The city authorities and Heroes, already reduced in number and staggering from the Rikti onslaught, had no choice but to relinquish the area to the Pantheon and wall it off. Within the walls, the army of Husks and Shaman ravaged the zone, tore the ground apart and sacrificed every man, woman and child in their efforts to wake the god Mot." |
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Originally Posted by Melancton
As I recall, this quote is from somewhere in the official City of Heroes materials on Dark Astoria, either in the online history of Paragon City that came out with the game in 2004 (which I read when I started playing in 2005) or one of the zone background articles that came out in what, "The Paragon Times" or whatever the official Dev publication was?
I took it to be an example of overly dramatic writing and/or a HUGELY jaded perspective. I think the more accurate and plausible narrative would be to reverse the above two sentences in that quote: The army of Husks and Shaman ravaged the zone, tore the ground apart and sacrificed every man, woman and child in their efforts to wake the god Mot. The city authorities and Heroes, already reduced in number and staggering from the Rikti onslaught, had no choice but to relinquish the area to the Pantheon and wall it off. Otherwise, you get into a really weird situation where nobody tries to evacuate or help, and in fact, they seal the zone up and prevent any escape by the doomed citizens, which cuts totally against the grain of the theme of "City of Heroes." So I always took it to be a "really big typo" instead of the official posture on what happened. |
Dark Astoria has a lot of atmosphere and this would be a fine time to clarify the lore regarding it and make it a tremendous place. If what is actually going to happen is that the Fog and the Ghosts will go and it will be gated behind Incarnate (meaning, "Insipid Sentient Insane Well of Furies Nonsense") lore, that is a crying shame.
Unfortunately, this part of the thread will likely be washed away in the torrent of "Carebear vs. LolPVP" fury that has been unleashed.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Kitty roar (I've got a hangover I can't find your name but I remember the avatar) the PvP flag idea isn't new, I've heard it since I started and I don't even remember if Villains was live at the time. Other MMOs with similar systems have already colored some peoples opinions of such a system, a lot of old players came to this game because there was no open or forced PvP and adding it in will turn them off to the game. Now if they added a PvP server then it really would be "if you don't like it don't use it" and I'm sure the PvP community would enjoy having a palce to meet up and play that didn't get taken away or have its databse wiped to test new developments...to be a decent replacement maybe a PvP server could have free transfers to but not be plugged into the market..sorta liek a test server that isn't used for testing...actually I like that idea...damn I might try PvP in that environment...damn...what was I talking about?
*clears throat*
Ahem...
Dogs are owned, Cats own!
so...
*flees*
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Gotcha! Posted that last night and it was all rumbling through my head. It wasn't meant as a criticism of your summary so much as a point I thought worth bringing up for some of the discussion going on in this thread. I think I also mentioned it in a thread dealing specifically with the Super Packs. Like I said, I think it's information folks might want to know about & I think of this thread as an informational one so... it seemed as good a place as any to mention it.|
Originally Posted by Von Krieger
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By the way due to the late night posting, I forgot to thank you for the UStream summary. I appreciate seeing what information is getting out to those who were unable to attend the event. Your note about other appropriate threads will have me seeking them out now...
I don't pvp much either, yet 1/2 my time talking with devs was ironically about pvp, mainly because I have friends who pvp. I get dragged into pvp so they can "test" their build.
Oh yeah, nice seeing you at the Pummit Turg! 
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Originally Posted by Turgenev
*shrugs* I fart in paragraphs. What can I say?
PVP is a hotbed of a topic (as this thread demonstrates). What I did was not just ask a question of "what about PVP", but rather "here's a PVP mechanic that could not only work, but introduce the idea painlessly to the average player". A claim like that takes, I'll say, maybe two minutes of explaining.  I'll be honest: I'm not a PVPer in any light. My investment in the idea was from the perspective of fleshing out the game as a whole, rather than make things better for a particular faction of players. I speak clearly - to the point to where people in my office think I'm being a jerk, but honestly, I just had vocal training, so that's what I do. There was no anger in my presentation. Maybe a little excitement. Forgive me if I geeked out. XDFYI, I have tried delivering this concept before on the forums back about 2 years ago with no redname response, but since I had a captive audience with the Devs, I figured "What the heck, the least that could happen is they look blankly at you and go 'lolpvp'". They didn't, and with the audience reaction to the idea of evolving the PVP mechanic, a lot of people who don't PVP seemed willing to try. My first post was primarily to fluff out what Xanatos and others asked in way of detail, but I wanted to express my response to the "lol" section.Thanks for the apology, VK. I'll let it be known when the Flowbie video of Positron's haircut is on Youtube. |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Yes, it would be a good idea...but I can see why they have issues, but I'll be the second MM to have them (after yours!)|
Originally Posted by Firemoth
The person asking about the Female MM pets was me if you want to add in a name :-p And yes, I'm beating that subject like a dead horse and not letting it go.
They stated there would be a thing in place to prevent duplicates. |
Nice meeting you at the Pummit.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Thanks for the write-up VK.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...