So, 'pay to win' is the future of CoH?
By
Agahnim,
Posted on: 2011-10-13 07:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
This is a horrendously bad idea. It will not end well.
That said. If PS is going the route of making top tier items purchasable...could I buy all my incarnate abilities in the store too? I'd love to never have to do another iTrial again.
Essentially, IMHO, the line that must not be crossed is for it to be possible to purchase anything with Real Money that can then be traded.
This must never happen, and if it has happened, it must un-happen.
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Can you trade those inspirations? I dunno, I wouldn't waste money on them anyway.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Essentially, IMHO, the line that must not be crossed is for it to be possible to purchase anything with Real Money that can then be traded.
This must never happen, and if it has happened, it must un-happen. |
I just won!
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I would also love this |
Originally Posted by Xanatos
If PS is going the route of making top tier items purchasable...could I buy all my incarnate abilities in the store too? I'd love to never have to do another iTrial again.
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There are all kinds of force. If they put you in a situation where you have choices you don't like or have to pay for things to keep up with your friends and still help the teams you are on, they have applied force.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
Just to nit pick... no one in any free to play game (of which city of heroes is not... it's a hybrid just sayin) is "forced" to do anything. People need to take responsibility for their own actions and impulse purchases.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
This is a horrendously bad idea. It will not end well.
That said. If PS is going the route of making top tier items purchasable...could I buy all my incarnate abilities in the store too? I'd love to never have to do another iTrial again. |
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Originally Posted by elemental23
I would also love this
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Think about this. If people bought into the idea it would just encourage them to make more crappy content that people don't like and then for a price you can pay to avoid the crappy content. It turns doing a lousy job into their most profitable mode of operation.
Heck you have positron saying already that they don't want to make solo incarnate content because then the people who like trials wouldn't have anyone to play them with ? WTF what kind of cognitive disconnect is going on there that he can think its ok to force his customer base into playing this stuff ?
Get back to the drawing boards and come up with Itrials that people find fun and want to play
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As far as I can tell there isn't anything in the store that is required for people to "keep up with your friends and still help the teams you are on." You should be able to do that w/out buying anything from the store.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
There are all kinds of force. If they put you in a situation where you have choices you don't like or have to pay for things to keep up with your friends and still help the teams you are on, they have applied force.
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@AF
It does not benefit a game developers to make crappy content no matter how free their game is. There are simply too many alternative MMO's on the market for a game to start abusing its' playerbase by trying to nickel and dime them on every ocassion. I mean, you still *want* to nickel and dime your playerbase to make profit, but not to the point where they just stop playing. There's a balance you need to achieve.
I kind of *agree* with Positron about making some missions that aren't solo, as they allow the developers to make their fights on a grander scale than if they were arranging difficulty for one character. We've been doing this with Task Forces for years now, so I don't really see it as being that far out there either.
It also is probably done this way to force a sort of longevity on the entire Incarnate thing, as things that take groups of people to get done are naturally going to take longer to do.
I like people too, so it's not really a chore for me to *have* to team up with them.
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There will always be people that will want to run iTrials and TF's, I still do ITF's and CoP's from time to time. But the devs wouldn't be forcing any one to buy them, yet they force you to grind iTrials for hours to get Incarnate powers. Just cause the option would be there doesn't mean every one would use their points for it. I'm just saying if the option was there I would use it cause I hate doing itrails.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
There are all kinds of force. If they put you in a situation where you have choices you don't like or have to pay for things to keep up with your friends and still help the teams you are on, they have applied force.
Yes to the first part but think about the second. You would ? Think about this. If people bought into the idea it would just encourage them to make more crappy content that people don't like and then for a price you can pay to avoid the crappy content. It turns doing a lousy job into their most profitable mode of operation. Heck you have positron saying already that they don't want to make solo incarnate content because then the people who like trials wouldn't have anyone to play them with ? WTF what kind of cognitive disconnect is going on there that he can think its ok to force his customer base into playing this stuff ? Get back to the drawing boards and come up with Itrials that people find fun and want to play |
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With the exception of Incarnate content, the entire game is doable with SOs.|
Originally Posted by DocBenway
As far as I can tell there isn't anything in the store that is required for people to "keep up with your friends and still help the teams you are on." You should be able to do that w/out buying anything from the store.
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If you want to hold yourself or your teammates to a higher standard, that's on you.
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Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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The classic free to play model generally relies on essentially infinite treadmills. Games like Farmville can trivially add content at a pace faster than nearly all players can acquire it, so there is only a small chance of someone actually outpacing development: it takes a huge investment in time and a lot of money to outpace those kinds of games usually, and their strategy is to essentially trade money for time: you can buy your way further along the treadmill. They don't care, because the treadmill is incredibly long.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Free to Play games depend on forcing the players to keep up with the Joneses
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Most MMORPGs are not like that, and cannot be like that. Neither our no all other sub MMOs I'm aware of that are now implementing Hybrid models can or do follow that model, because the content pipeline simply cannot keep pace with it. If you let people simply buy their way down the treadmill, you will run out of treadmill. So the monetization of more standard MMORPGs has followed other paths: monetizing customization, for example.
Its one of the reasons why incorrectly called City of Heroes a "free to play" game is not just a matter of incorrect semantics. The business models of virtually all the genuine free to play games and all the hybrid ones tend to be completely different, and applying the thinking of one to the other invariably fails to be remotely relevant.
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Originally Posted by DocBenway
As far as I can tell there isn't anything in the store that is required for people to "keep up with your friends and still help the teams you are on." You should be able to do that w/out buying anything from the store.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
With the exception of Incarnate content, the entire game is doable with SOs.
If you want to hold yourself or your teammates to a higher standard, that's on you. |
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Originally Posted by Giant2005
As an aside, the Trapdoor thing always makes me smile when I see it. Trapdoor is likely the weakest AV/EB in the game. Granted I don't usually fight him as an AV (Always an EB) but he is a pansy. He does little damage and has 0 regen if you kill his pets. |
Nope Trapdoor most certainly is not the weakest AV in the game. That distinction belongs to those chumps in Death From Below. After them I'd say Hopkins is on the weak side and then I'd put Trapdoor.
his gimmick actually does add significant challenge to the fight making him a stronger AV then the others I've listed.
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If that's competition to you...well...let's just say I doubt most people are using the same meaning of competition. That just sounds like build envy to me.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I don't know if its pay to win, but it will certainly hurt two of the remaining competitive aspects of the game, building a good build, and acquiring the materials to do so.
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| 3. People with Dollars >>> Sense ? |
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| Free to Play games depend on forcing the players to keep up with the Joneses |
Anyone having trouble finding teams due to not having the 'perfect build' just needs to look elsewhere. I find teams constantly, more now that Freedom has launched, than I have in some time.
What I do know, is if Another_Fan is complaining about it, it must be good for the game.
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I'm perfectly fine with IOs being availible in the Paragon Market for real cash.
Now they need to do like Diablo III and institute a Real Money Auction House, so I can start selling all the rare drops I get to cover my subscription.
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Pretty much THIS.|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
If that's competition to you...well...let's just say I doubt most people are using the same meaning of competition. That just sounds like build envy to me.
So giving money to a game I love so it will continue to prosper means I have no sense? Thanks for the insult. Any envy you feel toward having to have the same things other do is your problem. Anyone having trouble finding teams due to not having the 'perfect build' just needs to look elsewhere. I find teams constantly, more now that Freedom has launched, than I have in some time. What I do know, is if Another_Fan is complaining about it, it must be good for the game. |
I have money to spend to get extra things in the market. Just cause you (proverbial you, this is in general to any fool saying we don't have sense for wishing to spend money on things we like in this game.) don't is your issue not mine.
I can spend my money anyway I damn well please. When you work the hours I do or pay my bills then you have the right to tell me that what I'm spending money on is no sense.
Till then kindly butt out of my wallet.
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I love the doom and gloom about pay to win in this thread. Quite refreshing after reading a thread where the op is specifically asking what he can purchase to improve the power of his toons, and the majority are replying with rocket board or extra enhancement slots. Pay to win indeed.
And really, someone purchasing purple recipes with real cash does not threaten my epeen at all.
Cool Where can I petition to have Pay To Win added to the game?
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I am willing to be paid to win, but I must warn you all that my rates are not reasonable.
You can only have Pay-to-Win if you're competing with other players. I'm not.
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Originally Posted by elemental23
I would also love this
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
There are all kinds of force. If they put you in a situation where you have choices you don't like or have to pay for things to keep up with your friends and still help the teams you are on, they have applied force.
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The new graphics are necessary, and of course they're differentiated from the other IO's. Not every single IO level is in one Auction House slot. The system reads them as a separate item, despite just having a level difference. I'm willing to put inf down on the notion that the Attuned attribute is a sort of flag for IO's.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
They're viewable on the auction house in-game. There are separate versions of all rare, purple and PvP IO enhancements marked as both Attuned and Account Bound. They have new graphics as well to further differentiate them from the existing ones.
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Besides, just because they're listed separate on the Auction system doesn't mean they're actually different, it just shows that they've been implemented and categorized into the game.
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trapdoor will never spawn above EB lvl cause most of the toons ive run through the incarnate intro ran with AVs turned on|
Originally Posted by DMystic
Nope Trapdoor most certainly is not the weakest AV in the game. That distinction belongs to those chumps in Death From Below. After them I'd say Hopkins is on the weak side and then I'd put Trapdoor.
his gimmick actually does add significant challenge to the fight making him a stronger AV then the others I've listed. |
his gimmick is also easily countered with holds
You have to pay to use IOs and subscribe to be incarnate so I don't see how it's going "pay to win" when it started there.