So, 'pay to win' is the future of CoH?

Still waiting on a explanation. Posting like a certain other forum troll isn't getting us anywhere.

There's this game called League of Legends. It's a free to play game. But the only thing that's only purchaseable with money are purely cosmetic items (character skins). The other stuff purchaseable with money can be earned with points earned from playing the game. There money can buy you convenience or vanity. Not power. I hear that game is doing EXTREMELY well.

Umm why shouldn't cash provide an advantage? Right now the advantage goes to people who have spare time on their hands to farm or work on earning inf and rewards in otherways. How is that any less fair than buying rewards for cash? Particularly if you have the option of using both methods to gain things?

Never heard of it so it can't be doing that well.

I'm guessing there may be a few games that are doing well that you've never heard of.

I teamed with someone who had 80% def. His build had PvP IOs in it. With all that def, it didn't help much during Apex when he faceplanted during the Battle Maiden mission.
When I was on trial account a year ago, I maxed to lvl 15, and had a limit of 50,000 inf. So basically, I had very few powers and very little money, but that didn't stop me from making the decision to subscribe. Having the most uber stuff didn't convince me to play the game. I decided based on teaming and general game play.

As to making claims about being right with I21.2, pass the 50% mark first before you start taking credit for random things. People have been saying the devs have been forcing people to run the trials since the trials first arrived. The empyrean merit change might have been something you could take credit for if it wasn't for the fact that the change only kicks in after you unlock Destiny and Lore. As such, the change is a bit more complicated than your over simplistic and still generally incorrect view of the world. The change is still probably wrong, but not because of something trivial like "devs are forcing content down our throats." Rather, it breaks the balance between deterministic and non-deterministic rewards, and increases the probability that a player may not be able to achieve the level shifting incarnate powers at an appropriate time to be usable in the higher difficulty content.

Keep trying, though. With this one you actually have a far better chance at convincing someone than you normally have.

That last is probably the biggest sticking point. That other hybrid game (<obligatory rant about silly forum rules>) allows you to gain store currency in game, so everything in the store is technically obtainable in game.

Paragon has not followed the same design. You can't get Enhancement Boosters in game, for example.

As for the first part, again, it's a philosophical issue. If you don't understand why cash shouldn't provide an advantage in games, then you don't understand. If you don't understand why people who play CoH to make their character as powerful as they can don't like having to buy things from the store to do so, then you don't understand. That doesn't make you right and them wrong.

Not having heard of something speaks more to one's own narrowness of experience and less to the actual popularity of the thing in question. In this case, you are living under a rock, speaking in gaming awareness terms.

I agree with your core point, but I don't think anyone actually knows how well LoL is doing unless they are a Riot insider.

I think he was being facetious...

I don't play LoL and have no intention of ever playing it and therefore do not keep up with any specific updates they do. Even I know how well it is doing right now in player numbers and financial profit.

On the main topic, I used to be of the thought that having the Purple/PVP IO's purchasable in the Paragon Market for example would be a line that should never be crossed.

However since reading some people's points they have made in this post has convinced me that it is not really a problem.

If someone is rich/stupid enough to buy a full set of Purple/PVP IO's, it is there money, not mine so why should I care? Paragon Studios have gone to the hybrid model because they wanted or needed the cash influx in order to ensure they pay their staff and survive and have capital to develop the game further (or CoH2).

Hell I'd buy the odd Glad Armour +3 Def with spare points for maybe one or two of my toons. I would still be getting the other Glad Armour +3 Def and Purples in game doing my usual gaming, building the Inf over time to get them.

Not to keep beating the horse, but exactly how do you know how well they are doing in terms of financial profit? Can you find anything concrete on this? I know there's lots of speculation about this, but that's all it is.

And on that note, we should probably move on, considering we're either skirting or violating forum rules. *sigh*

That's ... a really concise way of putting it. Thx

Accuse you of developing something ? Try reading for the win it really helps. I accused you of polishing the devs turds for them and that's something that anyone who has seen your follow up posts on anything from the F2P changes to positrons rant over AE can't help but be aware of.


When positron says "we need the solo path to be less rewarding than the trials otherwise the people who enjoy the trials wont be able to play them", that's not just people.

Care to shoot for the devs forcing players to play a particular way is actually a good thing ? You might have a little more luck with that.


Yes, only because if its something I had put money on at a prediction market, I would now be collecting my winnings.

But lets see I would also be collecting on the devs selling fixes and improvements for ATs. Then there was the prediction they would sell power directly in the game, which we have in terms of extra market slots and soon will broaden by selling every IO in the game and a bunch that currently aren't even in the game. Then there was my call that they would sell fixes to existing problems that were trivial but dress them up a little. Well we have attuned IOs selling the fix for the shortage of off max level recipes.

That puts me on a solid 80% with one undecided as yet. That would be creating problems so they can sell the fix ? Well attuned IOs could be argued as that but I expect a much more decisive example will be when they start selling something along the lines of incarnate XP boosters, Incarnate windfalls that boost your incarnate drop quality, and maybe Incarnate salvage surprise packages.


Yes my view of the world is simple. I view the devs as farmers that have decided to milk their cash cows.

Since I tend to check out various games it speaks more to not being well listed or something. I do check out various games and the like and frankly have never heard of it.

Ok, I looked it up online and determined why I hadn't heard of it. I probably had looked at the information about it and completely dismissed it as a game I would ever be interested in playing. PVP centric from what I can see which type of games I avoid like the plague.

Since your correct about us getting too close to violating forums rules I'll forgo any linking, which does seem like a cop out, which I apologise for.

Yes many news sources post speculation but in some cases they are getting it from the horses' mouth. Paragon Studios will agree with the statement that if your numbers are doing well, brag about it. It makes for great advertisement.

Other than that, the previously named company who make the other game that has been mentioned gets it main investment from another company that is listed as a PLC. As such it is very easy to research or ask for information like that since any member of the public can be a potential investor and therefore information needs to be made available in order to entice possible investment.

My view of the world is simple as well.

Games need money to survive. I am happy to give the ones I enjoy playing money.

I could stand to lose a few pounds, but I think calling me a cow is a little extreme...

Also, in terms of a simple world view, there are people that don't like other people making money.

Since it takes money to make the game continue to be available, people resenting Paragon for making itself more profitable are not really needed as customers...

Ok, That sounds like a perfectly good plan to me.

The whole concept that making money is some how evil is just well ... evil and wrong.

Well making money by exploiting others is evil.

Good thing this is just a game and that can't reasonably work.

Well, most of your so-called points in that big paragraph are wrong. Market slots = power? Get real. They're selling CONVENIENCE, not power.

But from the general tone of your comments, you seem to hold the game and the devs in nothing but contempt. So why are you still here?

Maybe this will help you

pow·er/ˈpouər/

Noun: The ability to do something or act in a particular way, esp. as a faculty or quality.

Noun: (physics) The amount of work performed per unit time.

You see most of the world views being able to do more faster as being more powerful, and as a coincidence being more powerful is considered convenient.

Tell you what next time you play chess, well in your case checkers why don't you try rules where you and your opponent can buy pieces as you feel you need them. You wouldn't buy from each other of course but from someone who is standing nearby laughing their head off. If you want to go for the advanced version he can put marks on a few pieces that let you move them in new ways, for a small additional charge of course.


Edit: If you want to go for the really hardcore version of this game, periodically he can come over to the board wreck your positions and charge you to put them back to the way they were