Premium Players get less than expected!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Everyone who ever purchased access to Incarnate content still has the same access to that content they have ever had.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Quote:
I'd really like to find those old posts...I just like to make sure >_>
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
No, you are remembering incorrectly.
It worked fine. They removed it because there was nothing to DO with it. They pulled it and started working on Apex and Tin Mage, and the arc that unlocks it, because having the slot and having nothing to use it on made little sense. |
I'd allow the Premies the alpha slot if they bought Going Rogue. That would probably entice them to want the rest of the incarnate system and thereby subscribe.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I'd allow the Premies the alpha slot if they bought Going Rogue. That would probably entice them to want the rest of the incarnate system and thereby subscribe.
|
This, totally this. They'd have this one slot that makes them better, and when ever they look at their incarnate UI, they have nine empty slots just there tempting them!
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
Is this what you're looking for?|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
I'd really like to find those old posts...I just like to make sure >_>
|
Edited to include a direct link to the GR Beta Patch notes from that thread. (Which, I presume, you can only click on if you were actually in beta.)
Help Dirk Knightly the freelance detective solve a case in Arc ID:368097
Quote:
Quoted as the Gospel.|
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Riiiiiight. So the MMO you previously subscribed to is now allowing you to come back and continue playing *without* having to pay anything and you're ******** that they're not giving you all the stuff you used to have when you *were* paying them?
People truly astonish me sometimes. |
This is one thing that gets me on this whole f2p business. The non-payers have absolutely no right to complain about anything.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Quote:
I agree.
|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I'd allow the Premies the alpha slot if they bought Going Rogue. That would probably entice them to want the rest of the incarnate system and thereby subscribe.
|
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
a-ha! thanks, so technically...both me and Forbin were correct |
Originally Posted by Kallandra
Is this what you're looking for?
Edited to include a direct link to the GR Beta Patch notes from that thread. (Which, I presume, you can only click on if you were actually in beta.) |
I was just off in the exact reason why it was pushed back.
To look at it another way:
I have 70 months of paid time in this game, and if you add the money I spent buying extra stuff I have spent approximately $1,200 on City of Heroes.
Now, unless it has changed, for every 1,200 PP you buy you recieve a Reward Token, correct?
If that is true, a brand new player who starts today can get to exactly the same permanent status as me by spending $450 all at once. That will entitle them to the sam 30 Reward Tokens I have. It will also give them 36,000 PP to spend on stuff (that is enough to unlock everything I have and then some).
Now, if that brand new player decides they will just permanently unlock stuff and never pay a subscription fee, they will have acquired everything that I have permanently available and will have spent 1/3rd the money I have. If it weren't for the fact that there are some things that are VIP exclusive I'd be feeling more than a little gypped.
A player who has been subscribed for launch will have paid $1,350 just in sub fees alone. That gives them 37 Reward Tokens and pretty much everything that can be permanently unlocked. A brand new player can achieve the same status for about $600, or less than half the money.
Not only that, but the brand new player gets that stuff NOW, as opposed to having to wait 6-7 years for it like us veterans have.
Now, if it weren't for VIP exclusive things, the VIPs would definitely be getting teh short end of the stick as far as what we get for the amount we've spent. Again, a brand new player can reach the same permanent staus for less than half the money we spent to get ours.
If Incarnate content and VIP server access were permanently unlockable for Premium players, it would be the VIPs getting screwed, not the Premiums. Because then there would be no point to being a VIP and a Premium player could have all the same things for less money.
Looking at it in that light, in my opinion there should be MORE VIP exclusive content, not less.
Edit: To the people who wanted to be able to purchase Vet rewards: Congratulations, not only did you get your wish, but Vet Rewards are now meaningless, because anyone with enough money can get them all at once.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
The whole you bought it you keep it quote is going to haunt the devs for a long time. It's ED after the GDN all over again.
A better argument is I bought GvE but Controllers and Mastermind ATs are locked as well as the EATs. So right there that statement is false. Now do I blame a single comment from one developer who may not have known exactly what was going to be unlocked by purchase or was it a statement about boosters and packs? Or did nobody there actually thought of the Incarnate system as an integrated part of GR but as a entirely separate major feature that came later. |
So much this. Black Pebble should kick who ever said this square in the nuts.
So buying a IO license will get You, your grayed out sets from being premium cuz u bot a license and be able to use em ?
Quote:
Yep. Pre-purchase of something that isn't finished is inherently risky, because what you "bought" (i.e., reserved at full price) could change before it's done. If it changes, and those changes aren't acceptable, you have a right to cancel the purchase. The specifics of those rights vary from place to place, but once you have it in your hands your options diminish rapidly, especially since it's a low-priced mass-market consumer product and not, say, a custom-built house that you contracted for. If you got the product that was advertised at the time of retail release, which you did, and you didn't return it for a refund because it didn't match your pre-purchase expectations, which you didn't, then you are the proud owner of the product as released.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
So, if that was your reasoning for pre-purchasing GR you had ample opportunity to get a refund. Over a year after GR was released is a bit late to try to play that card.
|
You may well be disappointed about it, you may be angry or even enraged, but you were not the victim of fraud. (And by "you" I mean "the OP", not Texas Justice.)
Should Incarnate content be gated behind a subscription? Maybe; that's the company's choice. Do you have a right to Incarnate content without a subscription based on what you've bought before? No, of course not; but if you believe there's a legally-binding commitment by Paragon to provide it, then you certainly have the right to seek legal redress at your own expense. The lawyers wherever you live will be able to tell you if you have a leg to stand on.
One forum name, two members: Molly Hackett & Heliphyneau.
AE arcs:
27327 - Enter the Homunculi
176837 - Homunculi 2: Tectonic Boogaloo -- UPDATED
Quote:
This doesn't really hold water as an argument. Show me any proof of any time since the cyborg pack was released were a subscription was not required to access the items it unlocked. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Show me conclusive proof of any time since Incarnates were released where a subscription was not required to access them. If you can do that, I will concede that you win.
|
The point is, because you paid real money to unlock those items if you drop to free to play you still retain access to them.
Now for my point:
Show me conclusive proof of any time since Incarnates were released where Going Rogue was not required to access them. If you can do that, I will concede that you win.
I concede that we all should have cake, pie, cookies and punch for our grief.
Quote:
Except we should be use to this. Everyone has had something taken out of context or telephone tagged into something else. Everything has been reduced to soundbites. |
Originally Posted by Lucky666
So much this. Black Pebble should kick who ever said this square in the nuts.
|
If someone publishes a study that says X will slightly increase the risk of some disease Y in a small sample but more study needs to be done, the media publishes X causes Y. Next thing you know you have groups of angry parents demanding X to be removed from everything under the sun. And when a later more comprehensive study overturns the first one, people will claim a cover up or that the 2nd study was paid for by the companies that produce X or all scientists are idiots who can't make up their mind.
If it wasn't spelled out on the Freedom website, it was speculation and not fact. That's why I noticed that they now spell out what Going Rogue access means, that Incarnate play isn't and a somewhat better description for the premium features that they once listed as "limited".
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
I couldn't agree more. I want to say it was Second Measure on a Ustream, but I can't access the old ones to search for it.
|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
So much this. Black Pebble should kick who ever said this square in the nuts.
|
Quote:
In all honestly all of that (in bold) should have been in place BEFORE ANYONE in PS was allowed to open their mouths about what was or wasn't in the various tiers of COH Freedom. Multiple channels (twitter, forums, Facebook, magazines, blogs, etc) shouldn't be used until a clear and consistent message about WHAT exactly is in a promotion (in this case Premium vs. Free vs. VIP) is locked down.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Except we should be use to this. Everyone has had something taken out of context or telephone tagged into something else. Everything has been reduced to soundbites.
If someone publishes a study that says X will slightly increase the risk of some disease Y in a small sample but more study needs to be done, the media publishes X causes Y. Next thing you know you have groups of angry parents demanding X to be removed from everything under the sun. And when a later more comprehensive study overturns the first one, people will claim a cover up or that the 2nd study was paid for by the companies that produce X or all scientists are idiots who can't make up their mind. If it wasn't spelled out on the Freedom website, it was speculation and not fact. That's why I noticed that they now spell out what Going Rogue access means, that Incarnate play isn't and a somewhat better description for the premium features that they once listed as "limited". |
If not you get things like this thread/discussion/argument.
Not trying to tell Black Pebble/Second Measure/etc. how to do their jobs . . . but just saying.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I never wanted that, particularly, but given the overall revamp of the system, I'm completely OK with that. If someone wants to plunk down several hundred dollars on a game I like playing, with a past history where profit windfalls result in earlier/more content releases? (We got SoAs early because one of the costume packs brought in more money than they planned.) I'm good with that.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Edit: To the people who wanted to be able to purchase Vet rewards: Congratulations, not only did you get your wish, but Vet Rewards are now meaningless, because anyone with enough money can get them all at once.
|
Ultimately, my "status" in this game (and how much should anyone be worried about status in a game?) is not represented by my vet rewards. To me, that's about how I act with other players, how much I know about the game, and how well I can play it. I do like being able to show I've been here a long time, and I can still do that with the annual badges. I kind of miss the finer granularity of the quarterly badges, but I'll live.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Well said. I agree.
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I never wanted that, particularly, but given the overall revamp of the system, I'm completely OK with that. If someone wants to plunk down several hundred dollars on a game I like playing, with a past history where profit windfalls result in earlier/more content releases? (We got SoAs early because one of the costume packs brought in more money than they planned.) I'm good with that.
Ultimately, my "status" in this game (and how much should anyone be worried about status in a game?) is not represented by my vet rewards. To me, that's about how I act with other players, how much I know about the game, and how well I can play it. I do like being able to show I've been here a long time, and I can still do that with the annual badges. I kind of miss the finer granularity of the quarterly badges, but I'll live. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Many ways have been suggested, both in the beta forum and here in this very thread. And it seems that the Devs/Marketing have already decided on the method they will use. To gain access to Incarnate stuff, you just need to pay $12 - $15 a month for a subscription (Depending on length of subscription). They make money, the players get access to Incarnates. Everybody is happy. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I think it's a fair point to suggest that there may be some ways to turn paid Incarnate access into a way to make money. That's been suggested a couple of times. It seems likely that it could be done in a way to make that possible.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by overkill2000
So buying a IO license will get You, your grayed out sets from being premium cuz u bot a license and be able to use em ?
|
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
----------------------
Fighting The Future Trilogy
----------------------
Quote:
And that's all I've been doing, besides saying that evidence from other sources doesn't go any further toward DISproving it than OTHER sources go toward PROVING it. Like I've said so many times, if they have a receipt, that's proof. EVERYTHING else is nonproductive hearsay.
|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
And no one has brought forth a valid receipt for their purchase that shows that they've:
A) Bought it. B) That it includes the Incarnate System. Until such a time that ANYONE, and I do mean anyone, can provide a valid receipt that shows they bought access to the Incarnate System, they have NO BASIS FOR MAKING THAT CLAIM. If they TRY to make that claim, then they are wrong and are trying to get something for nothing because everything found says they could not possibly have bought the pre-sale GR with a statement that it included the Incarnate System. No one here has to DISPROVE a claim that someone bought the Incarnate System with the pre-sale of Going Rogue. The person making that claim has to prove they did. That you insist on asking for proof the pre-sales page didn't have the Incarnate System on it is completely irrational and pointless. You should be demanding people making the claim show you a receipt where the Incarnate System was included. If they can't provide that, then don't listen to them. |
Quote:
This game isn't free to play.|
Originally Posted by General_CoH
It's true, but sometimes giving more for free makes people pay more. That's the entire idea behind "free to play"
|
It's a hybrid model, and is subscription focused with an a la carte option.
The subscription must have a value to justify its cost & its existence.
Quote:
This is true.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Except people GOT refunds when Alpha slot was removed from the deal. It can be very safely assumed that those who did not ask for a refund were comfortable with what they paid for as part of the deal.
If you did not ask for a refund at the time, you don't have a leg to stand on. By not asking for a refund (which you would have gotten), you were implicitly saying "I am comfortable with paying for this content without the Alpha slot." You can't sit there and complain because something you could have been refunded for a year ago is not now free. Well, that's not entirely true. You can complain all you want. It just makes you look like a jacktard though. |
Edit: The also fleshed out "limited".
*Subject to change by launch.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04