Premium Players get less than expected!

And if a player pays for his sub quarterly $13.95 per month, biannually $12.95 per month, or annually $11.95 per month the company is actually paying them to keep their account active.

Hmm, the value of the server transfer is questionable, but its a fair point. And the points.definitely. Do the server transfers stack? I would hope so as I wouldn't use them very often.

VIPs get a free server transfer every month, and yeah they stack.

I believe they do, as they always have done and as they would if you bought them from the store. I also agree that sometimes there is a world of difference between worth and cost. think to many thing in the store cost more than they are worth, but then again, sometime a product is worth as much as people are willing to pay. So as long as enough people pay those prices that is what they are worth to NCSoft.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

woohoo!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after your free month, procured with Going Rogue, you still had to pay the freaking monthly fee to access Incarnate content.

What the whine community seems to share in common is a sense of being butthurt over the fact that they can play an incredibly pared down trial version of the game for free but they can't access the most desirable premium content without paying what they used to pay to access the whole stinky mess.

Look, in Issue 1 we got access to Broadcast when we paid for CoH. I don't see anybody qq'ing that they don't get access to Broadcast for free. Why? Because you always have had to pay a monthly sub in order to Broadcast. How are Incarnates any different?

Don't forget the signature story arc, and time manip and other little perks. VIP's get a fair bit More than thier $15/£8.99/whatever per month, which is the way it should be.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

Without any interest in being confrontational nor argumentative, I am honestly curious as to what you think that this means.
Without using any analogies, what does it mean to you (anyone who wishes) that the Going Rogue expansion is a "prerequisite" but is not a "part of" the Incarnate System?

Is this only in response to people trying to make a case that the Incarnate System should be included in the new business model version of GR?
Or is this something that means something to you outside of that argument?

(As I have said before... While I believe the Incarnate System was a part of Going Rogue, I do not believe they should have included it in the Premium package)

I'm honestly just curious what this (what seems to be an odd notion to me) really means to the people that express it.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

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From the dictionary:

So what that means to me is that Incarnate content is not part of the Going Rogue package, but that the Going Rogue package is prerequisite to Incarnate content.

Much like French 201 is a prerequisite to French 351 (Francophone Society), but French 351 is decidedly not a part of French 201.

Pretty simple, huh?

[Edit: Telling people to not use analogies? Really? How about not using logic, reason, analytical thinking, or even pattern recognition in crafting a response? I mean really, the less we think about this, the easier it is to expect to get stuff for free that we've always had to pay for prior to the Free Trial being extended from 14 days to infinity. Think less, qq more! YEAH!!!1]

What DJ said is what we were told, and while I would have preferred being able to choose a service from a list each month, (Name Change, Respec, Server Transfer) I'm grateful to get what we are getting.

Or to put it another way in purely game terms, being L50 is a prerequiste to bein an incarnate, but being level 50 doesn't automaticatlly unlock incarnate abilities.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

Or being a Hero is a prerequisite to becoming a Vigilante.

Or being a Rogue, but yes.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

You know, this is really true. I've got all three Celestial pieces, I've got some 3k points sitting, and I don't particularly like the incarnate system. Believe me, it's crossed my mind more than once that now I can essentially unsub and get everything I care about for free.

The character slots hold me back though >.>

Yeah, couldn't agree more. Although I generally wouldn't use many server transfers or name changes and given the choice would take the points, I can see why they don't do that.

I think they have struck a pretty good balance with the VIP v Premium items.

I'm going to bookmark this thread, so that whenever someone complains about how the devs won't talk to us, and how mean and evil marketing are for not allowing them to talk about upcoming content, I can point them here.

You can find it linked in this thread 4 or 5 pages ago. I think Forbin Project is the one linking to it.

Basically the Positron one has him saying that the incarnate preview was being pulled because there wasn't enough to do with it for it to be a good preview.

Note that it was referred to then and even earlier as a preview. A preview is something that can and often does come to an end.

Yet again, nonsense. You are making wild assumptions based on your own feelings while ignoring every single other game that has switched to the F2P model that CoH is basing its own off of. In DnDO or LotRO or EQ2 or any other game that has done this I can play in every way and compete in every way with anyone else without being a subscriber. If there is a piece of "epic" gear there is a way I can use it and if there is a legendary ability there is a way I can get it. In fact the only one I know of that holds things behind a sub wall and won't let you buy out is Champions Online and they haven't exactly made a killing after going F2P compared to other games.

However, it is costly, and it is inconvienient to get all of those things. In addition if I do "buy out" then I am not getting access to all future content without paying for it. As of right now a subcriber of CoH gets a powerset, a monthly story arc, 400 TP, a free server transfer a month, free access to an expansion, a veteran reward token, a ton of character slots and many more things each month for $15 a month. There is no need to make it impossible to buy the incarnate system for premium players.

People would most certainly still subscribe because the value of subscribing is worth it to them. Perhaps you wouldn't still subscribe and there are people like that as well. However, looking at how other games have handled the situation (you know, real data instead of made up conjecture) it is simple to see that they did not die because they didn't hide content behind a subscriber wall.

Are you sure the mice didn't steal your thoughts and run away with them? That is what happens with me.

And I believe that this was a serious tactical mistake on their part. The reason I've never bothered resubscribing to DnDO is that there literally is no point in it. I gain no real benefit from subscribing. And if there is no benefit that can't be gained in some other way why bother subscribing? Lots of people feel that way.

So holding these up as good examples isn't I think a good idea because I think that specific point is a failure on their part.

They are examples of games that continue to hold many subscribers and have gained subscribers even if you may not feel the need to subscribe. They maintain subscribers because they offer plenty of things freely to subscribers much like CoH does. Even though you can buy out there are still lots of people who would rather pay per month because of the benefits they get.

So yes holding these up as good examples is a good idea because they have worked regardless of your feelings about them.

They are examples of systems that worked, but given some of the problematic elements of them they are not specifically good examples of model solutions to the explicit conflicts between subscribers and ala carte players, specifically because handwaving away the problems with retaining subscribers as efficiently as possible is incompatible with Paragon Studios' goals for the game, and counter to the best interests of most of the current subscribers of this game along with them.

Well they are also examples of games that increased revenues by many times after the change which I am certain is not counter to the goals of Paragon Studios. However, since my point was to counter the absolute nonsensical argument that allowing people to buy the incarnate system would make it so no one would subscribe any more, I think my examples proving that this is not true works fine.

Right now there are two ways of looking at that argument. You can look at other games which have allowed people to buy into the end game and have succeeded or there is talking about conjecture and assumption. I prefer to take the approach of looking at facts rather than whatever I want to believe.

That being said, I do personally think that being able to buy the incarnate system is a good idea for the overall health and growth of the game. I believe that buying the incarnate slots (and access* to the tier one powers within them) for $15 per slot and then to buy the higher tier access* at $10 per tier would be both fair to subscribers and would allow for people who didn't want to subscribe a way to buy into the end game. Keeping in mind that to buy the entirety of the incarnate system under this would cost $450 and that this is just one of the things subscribers have access to for their $15 a month.

I really can not understand in the slightest the idea that the ability to pay $450 one time and then $5 a month (for the story arcs) and another $5 a month (to make up for the TP from subscribing if you want to buy powersets or costumes in the future) and also pay for future zone content (as with first ward) would somehow make it so everyone would stop subbing. Especially since you would need to pay a lot more than $450 that one time in order to keep the character slots, epic arc types and other benefits if you were to stop subbing. If someone wants to explain this point of view to me then I would be more than happy to hear it.

If you want I can also cite how lifetime subs also don't end up making it so no one subs even though they cost a lot less than what I proposed above.


*Access meaning, of course, the ability to earn those within the game not automatically gaining those abilities.