Premium Players get less than expected!

No, they'll just tell you that you got Controllers and Masterminds for FREE. You didn't pay for them. :\

then try this link... EU side instead of US side..

http://eu.cityofheroes.com/en/news/g...0/overview.php

Although i *did* pay for Controllers and Masterminds

Via the City of Heroes boxset and the City of Villains boxset..

Of course now they are pretty much redundant as they have been superceeded by the Going Rogue Complete edition

I'll have some pie, but you can keep your punch. Looks like it would hurt. ;D

Actually, here is a different way of looking at it:
People have been citing the requirement of a subscription along with GR. Maybe just not in a way that would seep into my aged mind:

In actuality (I believe THIS to the be case) the very term BUY has been misused by nearly everybody, including the Devs. We NEVER DID buy CoH, CoV, GvE, GR, or even any of the items in the microtransactions such as booster packs, character slots, etc. What we paid for in ALL of these cases, until FREEDOM was the right to RENT these things (with our subscriptions).

So it is all moot. IF we continue to pay rent for these items then we can still use them freely, within the TOS. If we do NOT continue to rent them then we have no continued rights to use them.

So, I now feel that even IF clear proof is provided that Incarnates were included in some people's GR then all that it shows is that they had the right to RENT access to Incarnates as far back as GR.

Everybody still has the right to rent them. Remember: Not a single one of us OWNS anything in the game except a license to use at the discretion of NCSoft.

Why didn't you think of this several pages ago and save us a lot of silly bickering?

Nothing Incarnate is mentioned in the general Overview or the FAQ on that site, which should tell you something. It has a separate section on Incarnates, but then it also has information on CoH: Freedom. Do you think that was included in Going Rogue?

My guess is he got a good night's sleep and calmed down.

But as everyone keeps saying the phase (cut directly from the website) "*Requires the City of Heroes Going Rogue® expansion." does not mean "include as part of"

Because my aged brain is aged? ;P

Ummm, you're really going to throw this at me?

As of the Freedom head start, any player with a paid subscription has access to Incarnates, whether they bought Going Rogue as a separate item or not. That's because all VIPs got the content in Going Rogue for free with their subscription.

The only difference having purchased it makes is that you get to keep everything except Incarnates when you drop to premium, whereas you don't if you got it for free with your subscription.

According to your proposed rules, I win.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Actually, I don't, because I didn't say purchase, I said it was required. And as you said, they gave GR content, including the Incarnates content, free to all VIP members.

However, you damned yourself with your own words:

So by being given all GR content, they got access to the incarnates.

I love the out of context word wrangling you're trying to do. The topic of this entire thread has been people who paid for Going Rogue, and now you're saying that because VIPs got it for free it counts just as much as purchasing it? It doesn't, not in the context of this thread, which has been people paying for something and not keeping it. Oh, and a lot of misunderstanding what it was they paid for.

And NOW you're saying that since VIPs were given Going Rogue content it counts toward what you keep when you stop paying? Which is what you'd be saying, unless you're talking about something different than everyone else in the thread.

So, by being given Going Rogue content for free with their subscription, all VIPs should be allowed to keep it when they stop paying? Is that what you're saying?

Talk about entitlement.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Whoa, I never said that. You're reading a lot into what I said. All I'm saying is that people who bought GR also bought access to the incarnate content. Because that was the only way to get it. My last post was demonstrating that link between the 2 because VIPs were given GR access which included Incarnate Access. They definitely shouldn't retain any part of it should they go F2P.
Heck, I actually agree with Premium players not being given full access to incarnate content. I just have a problem with the original assertion that you retained access to what you paid for if you went F2P because you DID pay for incarnate access*.

If it were me in the Dev's seat I'd provide access to the incarnate system to Premium players who have purchased GR at the time of Freedom going live, but they have to purchase access to the different powers and the trials etc.
I know that would probably kick up as much fuss anyway, but it would be more on par with the IO set issue.

*note, I haven't found or seen the actual quote about retaining access to what you paid for, and the Freedom list does say Nearly, which I think is close enough to be damning, but does allow leeway. My main bug is with people saying that GR doesn't include the Incarnate content when, in my mind, it's clearly a part of the package as that's the only way to get it.

I really think I need to walk away from this as it really doesn't effect me as a VIP and I have no intention of getting on the wrong side of people here which I'm probably dangerously close to doing.

What a completely absurd argument. So, in your warped perception that leads to this conclusion, those 70 months that you actually got to play the game had zero value?

Well said, and completely true.

I think a lot of us have been trying to illustrate this concept, but using the wrong words ("Buy" as you said). With this argument, any further discussion is, again as you say, moot.

How very helpful.

Looks like he's been watching you post.

How very... let's say "impolite".

No, the time I played was worth the money I spent. Obviously, since if I felt it wasn't I wouldn't have paid it.

My gripe is the fact that I earned my permanent status (i.e. what I keep if I stopped my subscription) through the time that I played, which cost me X dollars total.

A new player, if they are so inclined, can acquire the exact same permanent status with a wad of cash, instantaneously. No waiting, just throw $400 at the game and you get the same thing as a guy who's been here for years and spent 3 times that much.

And this after we were told that subscribers are still their priority because of their loyalty to the game. Apparently 70 months of loyalty is worth $400.

I just wanted to do the math and see how much it would cost someone to get to the same status I'm at. And honestly, it kind of pissed me off when I realized that I spent 6 years and $1200 for the same thing that someone can get for $400 today.

By continuing my subscription, I get TWO things not available through any other means:

1) Access to the Exalted server (whoopty freaking doo)

2) Access to Incarnate content.

Everything else can be purchased in the market if you want to spend the money.

Basically, if they give Incarnate access to anyone who bought Going Rogue, any subscribers will essentially be paying $15 a month to play on one server that is exactly like all the others. The 400 points costs $5, no subscription necessary. The free transfer costs $10, no subscription necessary.

Given that, if we got to keep Incarnate content free of charge for buying GR, who in their right mind would keep paying $15 a month? Is ONE server worth $15? Not to me it isn't.

If there is nothing you can't get by other means than a subscription, there is no reason to subscribe.

If there is no reason to subscribe, pretty soon no one will once they realize they don't have to to get the parts of the game they want.

Once no one is subscribing, the game will be forced to exist on whatever it can earn through the Market.

What happens when everyone already has everything they want?

If there is content ONLY available through subscribing, there will continue to be subscribers.

As long as there are subscribers the game can continue on almost indefinitely.

If the game starts relying on the Market for the majority of it's revenue, it will reach a point where most of the players have everything they want and revenue will drop off sharply.

If revenue drops too far, the game gets the plug pulled.

Keeping some content only available through subscribing is simply in the best interest of the long term survival of the game.

The one thing that will kill this game faster than anything else is the developers caving to the greed and entitlement of it's players. Once they start giving in to demands for x content to be free just because it was demanded, start looking for a new game, because this one won't be around much longer.

This isn't doom, this is realism. I'm sure the devs are much more aware of the stakes of this gamble than I am. (and a hybrid model IS a gamble, there's no guarantee they will make enough profit to make it work it)

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

As claws said, 400PP =$5 1 server transfer = $10. So really you are, everything else is free.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.