Premium Players get less than expected!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
 Thanks. I didn't need to know that. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
And yet you quoted it and left the link intact.
|
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Soylent brown is Poo!
This thread has turned into Wil Wheaton's campfire story from Stand By Me!
I've always wanted a reason to make that reference. 
Quote:
Except the game is perfectly FINE and indeed VERY GOOD without the Incarnate content. Has been for, oh, almost 7 years. I for one am a VIP who doesn't even LIKE the Incarnate content and rarely touches it.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
There is a line between 'game is good, I'll spend money on it' and 'game is only good if I spend money on it'.
It's the MMO equivelent of the DLC issue faced by single player games. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
The question should be, "Would it be more fair to players who purchased the expansion, under the impression that it would grant them access to certain content?"
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
The fact remains that access to the Alpha Slot was a potential driving factor in people purchasing the Going Rogue expansion.
|
Access to the alpha slot was also a driving factor for keeping an up to date subscription.
Oh yeah:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ? :) ?
I mean it's not like my ice cream boss in China will close my store if I make no money right?
|
Quote:
If I'm gonna feel ill, then so is everyone else.
|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
And yet you quoted it and left the link intact.
|
Quote:
HAHA! And I almost mentioned that in my post! I'm glad I didn't... and allowed you to finally make that reference! |
Originally Posted by ScottyB
This thread has turned into Wil Wheaton's campfire story from Stand By Me!
I've always wanted a reason to make that reference. |
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Actually, it went more like this:|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Then they should of refunded all pre-purchases no? Because what people bought from them ,turned out to be different to what they recived. Their are a metric ****-ton of laws against that by the way.
"I sold you prime cod, but we didn't have cod, enjoy your flatfish" |
Seller: I have something that may change before release!
Buyer: I'll buy it anyway!
Seller: Well, things changed before release.
By the way, there were plenty of people that got their pre-purchase money back when the Alpha peek was removed from GR. It was all over the forums. If you (general you, not CactusBrawler specifically) didn't get your money back, then you accepted what you purchased changed before release.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Having more people playing the game for free isn't Paragon/NCSoft's goal here. The point is to have more people paying money to play the game.
Having returning players complain because some feature is locked out because they don't want to pay is laughable. Then to have them say the game will die because they aren't allowed to have everything enabled on existing characters while paying nothing is even funnier still.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
And no one has brought forth a valid receipt for their purchase that shows that they've:|
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
They don't have to disprove ANY of your documents if they have a RECEIPT FOR THEIR PURCHASE that shows that they bought it.
|
A) Bought it.
B) That it includes the Incarnate System.
Until such a time that ANYONE, and I do mean anyone, can provide a valid receipt that shows they bought access to the Incarnate System, they have NO BASIS FOR MAKING THAT CLAIM. If they TRY to make that claim, then they are wrong and are trying to get something for nothing because everything found says they could not possibly have bought the pre-sale GR with a statement that it included the Incarnate System.
No one here has to DISPROVE a claim that someone bought the Incarnate System with the pre-sale of Going Rogue. The person making that claim has to prove they did.
That you insist on asking for proof the pre-sales page didn't have the Incarnate System on it is completely irrational and pointless. You should be demanding people making the claim show you a receipt where the Incarnate System was included. If they can't provide that, then don't listen to them.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
It's true, but sometimes giving more for free makes people pay more. That's the entire idea behind "free to play", after all. The only argument is whether giving certain things for free will bring more or less money, and that argument is completely speculative.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Having more people playing the game for free isn't Paragon/NCSoft's goal here. The point is to have more people paying money to play the game.
|
It's easy to argue extremes, but the two extremes, either giving all the content for free (but leaving new costumes, powersets, story arcs, etc. at the store) or not giving anything for free (subscription model) are likely to make less money than a middle ground.
It's impossible to prove which middle ground is best. Even sales statistics can't prove it, since they can't compare to a situation where another choice was used.
Anyway, back to our scheduled programme about poop flavoured ice cream causing climate change, as the combination of cold ice cream and methane emitted from the poop flavour battle for climate domination.
Quote:
No.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Do you not think it would be fair if Premium players who purchased GR got access to just the Alpha Slot?
|
Going Rogue clearly states it gives access to the Alignment System and Praetoria. You got what you paid for.
I have no sympathy for anyone that purchased a product going through Beta and discovers the released article isn't everything they expected. Plus I believe if you took it up with support at the time you would get a refund. Is that not true?
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Quote:
Except, under game info, on the going rogue website it has the incarnate info. It's the only place it is.|
Originally Posted by Jagged
No.
Going Rogue clearly states it gives access to the Alignment System and Praetoria. You got what you paid for. I have no sympathy for anyone that purchased a product going through Beta and discovers the released article isn't everything they expected. |
Incarnates Overview
Quote:
Except people GOT refunds when Alpha slot was removed from the deal. It can be very safely assumed that those who did not ask for a refund were comfortable with what they paid for as part of the deal. |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Sure it is. If they didn't refund people who bought GR prior to Alpha slot's removal from the deal, then those peopel still purchased access to the Alpha slot. Hence according to Posi's words, they should keep access to the Alpha slot.
|
If you did not ask for a refund at the time, you don't have a leg to stand on. By not asking for a refund (which you would have gotten), you were implicitly saying "I am comfortable with paying for this content without the Alpha slot."
You can't sit there and complain because something you could have been refunded for a year ago is not now free.
Well, that's not entirely true. You can complain all you want. It just makes you look like a jacktard though.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Er No.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
Except, under game info, on the going rogue website it has the incarnate info. It's the only place it is.
Incarnates Overview |
You are just browsing the Site using the Going Rogue style sheet, just like you used to be able to do with the Villain Style sheet. The same section links you to this forum, that doesn't mean access to this forum is part of Going Rogue. The Going Rogue Overview on the same page does not mention Incarnates. Nada, nothing, not a peep!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Quote:
No, that is the Going Rogue website. The one the released when GR was announced. It's not a style as per the forums. All the info under game info on that link is Going Rogue only. As in stuff that you gained access to by buying GR.|
Originally Posted by Jagged
Er No.
You are just browsing the Site using the Going Rogue style sheet, just like you used to be able to do with the Villain Style sheet. The same section links you to this forum, that doesn't mean access to this forum is part of Going Rogue. The Going Rogue Overview on the same page does not mention Incarnates. Nada, nothing, not a peep! |
If you go to the main CoH page you won't find any information on the incarnates.
Quote:
Really?
|
Originally Posted by Diggis
If you go to the main CoH page you won't find any information on the incarnates.
|
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Quote:
Granted, but that's an Issue. Also, note at the bottom of that page:|
Originally Posted by Jagged
|
*Requires the City of Heroes Going Rogue® expansion.
What I meant was can you find info on the slots, like the power trees etc, on the main page?
Quote:
And given that Incarnates were introduced in Issues 19 & 20 thats were I would expect to find the information.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
Granted, but that's an Issue.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Diggis
*Requires the City of Heroes Going Rogue® expansion.
|
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
The whole you bought it you keep it quote is going to haunt the devs for a long time. It's ED after the GDN all over again.
A better argument is I bought GvE but Controllers and Mastermind ATs are locked as well as the EATs. So right there that statement is false.
Now do I blame a single comment from one developer who may not have known exactly what was going to be unlocked by purchase or was it a statement about boosters and packs? Or did nobody there actually thought of the Incarnate system as an integrated part of GR but as a entirely separate major feature that came later.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Okay, to the people who think Incarnates should be included in Going Rogue for the purposes of this discussion, I have a very simple way for you to win this argument, hands down.
Show me conclusive proof of any time since Incarnates were released where a subscription was not required to access them. If you can do that, I will concede that you win.
Furthermore, the fact that the Alpha slot was added to the Going Rogue beta after it began, and was subsequently removed from that beta before it went live indicates that Incarnates were never intended to be included in the package that is Going Rogue.
Going Rogue is a requirement for it, but it being a requirement doesn't automatically mean it was part of it.
The bottom line is, the devs can make whatever content they damn well please VIP only. And if you look at it, how much of the game is VIP ONLY? Not a whole hell of a lot of it, you can buy access to just about anything else and play it on a Premium account. Incarnate content is just about the only thing other than Exalted that you MUST be a subscriber to use.
If you ask me, level capped content that is completely optional being VIP only is perfectly fair. Prior to Freedom, you needed to have both A) Going Rogue -AND- B) an active subscription in order to access Incarnate content. Now, since all VIPs are getting Going Rogue for free, the only continuing requirement is an active subscription.
If you purchased Going Rogue separately, you get to retain access to side switching, Alignment Merits, the 4 new powersets and Praetoria, all regardless of your veteran status. But Incarnates still requires a subscription.
Why is a subscription still required for it? That's incredibly simple. A subscription is required for it as incentive to keep people subscribed. Since you can buy permanent access to EVERYTHING else, what's to stop people from buying that access and never giving Paragon Studios another dime? It would make sense, long time vets have very little reason to keep paying money, because they already have permanent access to most of the game. If they had access to Incarnates as well, they would lose absolutely nothing by canceling their subscription and playing the entire game for free until it shuts down (which would be rather soon if a significant number of players went that route)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
If I remember correctly, and I believe it was Positron that said they removed the Alpha Slot from Going Rogue because it wasn't working as intended and ended up being pushed back because of it.
| Furthermore, the fact that the Alpha slot was added to the Going Rogue beta after it began, and was subsequently removed from that beta before it went live indicates that Incarnates were never intended to be included in the package that is Going Rogue. |
Quote:
No, you are remembering incorrectly. |
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
If I remember correctly, they removed the Alpha Slot from Going Rogue because it wasn't working as intended and ended up being pushed back because of it.
|
It worked fine. They removed it because there was nothing to DO with it. They pulled it and started working on Apex and Tin Mage, and the arc that unlocks it, because having the slot and having nothing to use it on made little sense.
None of which changes the fact that the devs have the final say on what is included in what. The fact that they DID give refunds to people who bought Going Rogue under the impression that Incarnates were going to be part of it says, to me at least, that as far as the DEVS are concerned, Incarnates are NOT part of it.
If the devs decide that having bought the Collector's Edition will grant you access to First Ward, they can do that, because it's THEIR GAME. And we have no say whatsoever in it.
Bottom line: If the devs decided that you still need to have an active subscription to access Incarnate content, then you still need to have an active subscription to access Incarnate content.
Unless you think any business's customers are entitled to tell that business what they get for free when that business decided to be nice. When you walk into a car dealership and they give you a free keychain, you don't get to demand a free car because a keychain isn't good enough. Businesses don't work like that, if they did we'd call them charities.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I just noticed that they fleshed out what you get when they say Going Rogue in the side by side chart (tab over to see). Wonder when they made that change.
Edit: The also fleshed out "limited".
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Thanks. I didn't need to know that.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.