City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Premium Players get less than expected!

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
Honestly, what's wrong with giving Premium players who previously purchased Going Rogue access to just the Alpha Slot? That seems perfectly fair to me.
And it seems fair to me to allow them to buy access to each slot for $15 and for it to come with the first tier power access only (with the option to buy the higher tiers). The thing I am saying is we should be talking about it from a perspective other than saying we should get it because we're used to it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
Let me then call up another part of my own post, just to reinforce the point about the ridiculous semantic deep dive we're continuing.



My context was meant to convey at release. In fact, I used that phrase elsewhere in my post.



If you go out and buy CoV today, it refers to features that no longer exist, like base raiding. That's why the boxes also have a disclaimer on them about online features being subject to change.
This is getting ridiculous, and obviously no one is going to change their mind about the way they perceive the situation... All of that considered, once again: Do you not think it would be fair if Premium players who purchased GR got access to just the Alpha Slot?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
They obviously didn't pay for the game solely because it granted them access to those features. There are people, myself included, who paid for GR specifically for access to the Alpha Slot.
Fully knowing that if you stopped paying you would lose access to them until you began playing again.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
Once again, you bought a prerequisite to the Alpha slot. There are other prerequisites, but you're not trying to make a case about them, so it seems that you're not understanding this point.

Feel free to give an example of a similar situation. It's not a matter of not understanding, it's a matter of disagreeing. Just because someone doesn't have the same take on something you do doesn't mean that they are incapable of comprehending your divine intelligence.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
Do you not think it would be fair if Premium players who purchased GR got access to just the Alpha Slot?
Here's the best part. I really don't have much of an opinion about it. I am not opposed to it, and I don't see any harm in it, but I also don't think it's a big deal if they don't. Could be a good thing to drive more subs, or it might not matter.

I mostly got drawn into this thread in a vain effort to inject some sanity into the semantic argument, mostly in the hope it would stop

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post

If you go out and buy CoV today, it refers to features that no longer exist, like base raiding. That's why the boxes also have a disclaimer on them about online features being subject to change.

All well and good, EU players didn't get a box though.

EU players got a pre-purchase option, while the devs said GR would include the alpha slot/first level of incarnates though.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Why don't they have to prove that, against all documentation, they are owed something?

Why don't they have to prove that they got a notice that they were buying a preview of the Incarnate System before it was announced? The announcement of Going Rogue Pre-Orders dated back to Feb 18th, 2010. Pre-Orders went on sale the first week in March 2010. It wasn't until March 26 to March 28, 2010 with PAX East that the Incarnate System was announced. Logic dictates that any pre-sales before PAX East did not include any mention of the Incarnate System.

Even if it DID include mention of the Incarnate System, it would have said it was a preview. So a demo. The limited demo was removed from Issue 18 during beta. It was added to beta in around the beginning of June 2010 and removed in July 2010.

The EULA clearly states the game is subject to change.

So anyone saying that the Incarnate System was included in Going Rogue needs to show proof that:
  • The Incarnate System was a part of the pre-sales before it was officially announced.
  • The Incarnate System was not a feature that was tested and subsequently removed during Issue 18/GR beta.
Until such time as they can offer any proof of the above, they don't have anything to back up their claims. On the flip side, the document trail clearly shows that the Incarnate System was announced a month after pre-sales started which means that the people saying it wasn't included have shown their proof and are waiting for someone to prove them wrong.

You can't waltz in here and say that someone making an outrageous claim shouldn't have to back up their claims. Of course they do. I could claim that I am the current President of the United States, despite the fact that I'm a white guy from Canada. A lot of people wouldn't take me seriously if I did though. Even the people that did take me seriously would demand proof (and rightfully so).

So where is your proof that the Incarnate System was put into the pre-sales package a month before it was announced at PAX East?
WHY DO YOU KEEP DEMANDING THAT I PROVE ANYTHING?

They don't have to disprove ANY of your documents if they have a RECEIPT FOR THEIR PURCHASE that shows that they bought it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
Feel free to give an example of a similar situation. It's not a matter of not understanding, it's a matter of disagreeing. Just because someone doesn't have the same take on something you do doesn't mean that they are incapable of comprehending your divine intelligence.
Sit in the road with your driver's license and see how far you get without a car.

'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
Sit in the road with your driver's license and see how far you get without a car.

You can get a car without a driver's license.

Edit: You can also use your driver's license without a car.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
Here's the best part. I really don't have much of an opinion about it. I am not opposed to it, and I don't see any harm in it, but I also don't think it's a big deal if they don't. Could be a good thing to drive more subs, or it might not matter.

I mostly got drawn into this thread in a vain effort to inject some sanity into the semantic argument, mostly in the hope it would stop

Heh, when it comes down to my personal experience I'm in the same boat as you... I guess it is, overall, a silly argument- But the fact remains that some people are obviously bothered by it enough, and feel that their argument is a strong enough one, and I agree with them.

The semantics come into play when other people take something that was vaguely and (quite frankly, poorly) introduced and defend it as if that were not the case. It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of people having a pretty valid concern and others doing everything they can to dismiss it.

Now, as a compromise, I see nothing wrong with everyone supporting Alpha Slot Access for Premiums who have purchased GR. Not the whole system- If they want that, I'm totally ok with having a subscription requirement. However, people who are unfamiliar with trials collecting shards during TF's isn't going to negatively impact VIP players' Incarnate progression during trials in any way, so really what is the harm, considering that many of these people obviously feel they were misled during their past transaction. It's an easy fix for a sticky situation.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
You can get a car without a driver's license.

Edit: You can also use your driver's license without a car.
You can play Incarnate characters on someone else's account.

You can build a fort out of your GR box, too.

'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
You can play Incarnate characters on someone else's account.

You can build a fort out of your GR box, too.

No you can't EULA says that's a no no.

And we in the EU didn't get a box for GR.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Red_X2 View Post
And they failed horribly. They stripped accounts so hard that they aren't worth playing without a sub or extra cash. You NEED money to make them worth it in my eyes.
I'm not seeing the problem here. Game company wants to make money. Right and this is bad why?

But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius

List of Invention Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis View Post
I'm not seeing the problem here. Game company wants to make money. Right and this is bad why?

There is a line between 'game is good, I'll spend money on it' and 'game is only good if I spend money on it'.

It's the MMO equivelent of the DLC issue faced by single player games.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Would be a valid point, but they sold it to people before the beta.

Not put up for pre-order.

Sold to, for full price.
Where show us the ad offering incarnates as part of Going Rogue?

The pax comments by Positron are not an ad. And as with anything a dev says while something is in development it can change or be removed right up until the thing is released. So it can't count as an advertised promise.

But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius

List of Invention Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis View Post
I'm not seeing the problem here. Game company wants to make money. Right and this is bad why?
I think it's a fair point to suggest that there may be some ways to turn paid Incarnate access into a way to make money. That's been suggested a couple of times. It seems likely that it could be done in a way to make that possible.

On the other hand, if only a minority of new players are going to ever make it to 50 (not something I'm sure of, but also not something that sounds impossible), all this thread's sound and fury might not amount to anything that meaningfully affects the bottom line.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
No you can't EULA says that's a no no.
It's illegal to drive without a license, too. What's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
And we in the EU didn't get a box for GR.
Irrelevant.

'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis View Post
Where show us the ad offering incarnates as part of Going Rogue?

The pax comments by Positron are not an ad. And as with anything a dev says while something is in development it can change or be removed right up until the thing is released. So it can't count as an advertised promise.
Correct. They need the actual purchase screen or a printed receipt that says it is included.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
All of that considered, once again: Do you not think it would be fair if Premium players who purchased GR got access to just the Alpha Slot?
It wouldn't be particularly fair or unfair, its just something they could do. Would it make them any more money? Probably not. Would it take additional code to just allow access to the Alpha slot (and no trials)? Probably.

So on balance, there doesn't seem to be that much reason to do it.

Always remember, we were Heroes.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
It's illegal to drive without a license, too. What's your point?

Actually you can drive off road without a license, you can also own a car, without a license.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed View Post
It wouldn't be particularly fair or unfair, its just something they could do. Would it make them any more money? Probably not. Would it take additional code to just allow access to the Alpha slot (and no trials)? Probably.

So on balance, there doesn't seem to be that much reason to do it.
The question should be, "Would it be more fair to players who purchased the expansion, under the impression that it would grant them access to certain content?"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Actually you can drive off road without a license, you can also own a car, without a license.
I have yet to see your point.

'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Sure it is. If they didn't refund people who bought GR prior to Alpha slot's removal from the deal, then those peopel still purchased access to the Alpha slot. Hence according to Posi's words, they should keep access to the Alpha slot.

The rest of the incarnate system? To paraphase various 80's movies, "That wasn't part of the deal!"
Nope. If it wasn't in the advertising copy they where never promised it. Anything a dev mentions during prerelease is subject to change. Anyone buying something based on comments of a dev should be very aware of that and the fact that they are taking a risk that the feature will make it to release.

But the only thing early purchasers where promised was in the ad copy. Not what the devs talked about being features in development.

Perhaps they should have been smart and waited before buying it. The onerous is on the buy to do due diligence particularly when all ad copy doesn't mention which ever feature you think you are buying.

I can believe that going to the store and buying milk includes buying your house. But unless the store advertised that I got your house with a purchase of the milk I didn't buy it.

But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius

List of Invention Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
I have yet to see your point.

That your post was a lead less pencil.

Pointless.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
The question should be, "Would it be more fair to players who purchased the expansion, under the impression that it would grant them access to certain content?"
It might be fairer to players who purchased the expansion under the impression that it would grant them access to certain content without paying a subscription. No such players exist, though.

Always remember, we were Heroes.