Premium Players get less than expected!

wha? I don't follow your meaning here. I know all of these words, but the order isn't making any sense. No sarcasm intended. I literally don't know what you're asking.


edit...i get the first part, pre-comma. Yes. It's software development. You buy it, knowing that it's pre-beta, it's quite possible that it may change, or have some feature delayed.

No, I was saying that the Alpha slot was only part of GR during Beta. After that, GR was only a prerequisite.

Before they 'removed' (delayed actually) it, it was included, for close to a year of pre-purchases (As in you give them the full money of going rogue) it was included. They said it at pax, War witch said it at the aniversry and when it was 'delayed' due to feed back Positron appologised.

I'm asking that if you buy something that includes a feature, but that feature has to be delayed at the point of release, do you conlude that said feature wasn't actually included in the first place?

Your specific reason for the purchase isn't a factor. Access to Incarnate content is dependent on owning GR, but it was *not* a part of GR.

From my perspective, I didn't care much about anything in GR and probably would never have purchased it in the first place if it weren't for the Incarnate access it granted. That would be just like taking the tip system away from Premium players (the second biggest contributing factor in my purchase decision) as GR was, by your logic, "just a prerequisite" for that system also.

The point is that your argument is obsolete since anything could be considered "a prerequisite" within the expansion- Will premium players have access to Resistance Armor costume pieces, or were those also just a prerequisite? What about making characters in Praetoria?

The fact remains that access to the Alpha Slot was a potential driving factor in people purchasing the Going Rogue expansion.

from Paragon Wiki...

So if you pre-bought previous to April 2nd, you would have been acting on incomplete information.. and maybe even feature sets that would have been cut for any reason.

Note: If you pre bought Going Rogue *BEFORE* the PAX annoucement (end of March) then more fool you to be honest, because there was *no* official announcement either here or there that i can find that stated that Incarnates were going to be included with Going Rogue....

I'd be content if I was able to still get the numerical values while not getting the set bonuses. But...it's probably <standard coding rant here>

According to TY, the period where where GR went on sale for Pre-purchase, may of been before the Forum merger.

Which would explain where quite a crap load of posts about it have gone.

For IO's I'd prefer for PReemium's that if they were slotted they still worked, but didn't give a set bonous, but yeah. Code and all that.

The first level was, as said by Positron and Warwitch, but they they are just/were lead devs of Paragon Studios, what do they know?

Hmm quandry for some of you, if the devs are always right and thus we never got Alpha as part of going rogue according to latest information, were the devs wrong when they said it was?

Kinda of hard to defend the devs, when you are calling them simpletons in the same sentance isn't it?

Regardless of what they said during the marketing, what was there at release is what was there. You can't claim "it was going to be in the release, but it's not" should count the same as "it's in the release".

And in this specific case what was going to be there was simply rolled back into the free issue that contained the meat of the system.

Then they should of refunded all pre-purchases no? Because what people bought from them ,turned out to be different to what they recived. Their are a metric ****-ton of laws against that by the way.

"I sold you prime cod, but we didn't have cod, enjoy your flatfish"

If I pay for something, I assume it is included in the transaction. If you don't, well then... I hope you live in a nice neighborhood.

Uh, that didn't make any sense, even when allowing for the errors. Seriously. They did not sell you the contents of the beta. What's in beta is not a valid metric of what you will get when it's released. Notice how we didn't get an extra three enhancement slots when i21 went live? They were in beta for a large part of it.

No quandry here. Yes, they said the Alpha slot *was* going to be in GR. Completely true according to their intentions *at the time*. Then beta happened (ie at a time after that statement of intentions) and they revised that statement to (paraphrasing) "The Alpha slot will *not* be in GR".

The passage of time is the key here. At one time GR was going to include the Alpha slot. At another, later time it wasn't going to have the Alpha slot...and it didn't.

It's actually pretty easy to defend the devs against arguments containing incorrect propositions.

1. The devs initially stated that the Alpha Slot would be part of Going Rogue. This was pre-release. Devs are acting on the only knowledge they possess at the time.
2. Beta Testing determined that it would be better to delay the Alpha Slot in order to have more time to fully develop actual content for it (Apex and Tin Mage) instead of just having us run the existing TFs with our new shiny. At this point (still pre-release) the Alpha Slot was no longer part of Going Rogue. Devs modify their statements based on what they learned.
3. Going Rogue releases, we have no Alpha Slot, which we were told we would not get prior to release. Devs are right.
4. dear god why am I even bothering you clearly aren't going to be persuaded by rational thinking

Maybe they should have. Not the issue here, though.

For some people, perhaps, but if they bought it during Beta, they should have known it was subject to change, and if they bought it after it went Live, they should have known that it did not include Incarnates, but was only a prerequisite.

For the record, I believe that side-switching, being the point of Going Rogue, may have been the bigger draw.

Sure it is. If they didn't refund people who bought GR prior to Alpha slot's removal from the deal, then those peopel still purchased access to the Alpha slot. Hence according to Posi's words, they should keep access to the Alpha slot.

The rest of the incarnate system? To paraphase various 80's movies, "That wasn't part of the deal!"

Analogies becoming progressively more contorted, distorted, inaccurate, and irrelevant.
Points being missed or ignored by a larger and larger margin.
What was that powerset from the other year that used to get posted in cases like this?

We're on the verge of a wholesale cognition and logic collapse here, people! Won't anyone think of the (utterly irrelevant) children?!

No.

Actually despite your rather crude attempts at insult we may have stumbled upon something here.

Could it be the balls up of the lead dev/devs saying that Alpha slot would be included as part of Going Rogue, is what has caused this massive decrease in information from Paragon? They used to be very chatty, now everything has to go through marketing a dozen times before they can even vaguly hint at it...

Not at all. If they saw that it was planned, didn't realize that it wasn't set in stone, and missed the announcement of the change, that's a shame, but that's all it is.

They still released Alpha slot though, it still required GR, it just didn't come out the day of GR's release.

It's not like Blizzard's Dance studio, something that was said to be part of expansion and never released.

It was delayed a bit.

Well, first of all I want absolutely nothing to do with the Beta argument because I wasn't around for it anyways.

For my part, I was told I couldn't use the Incarnate System without first buying GR. Why should access to the Alpha Slot which I paid for (Please don't try to tell me I didn't pay for it. I was told I needed x amount of money to access y thing, and so I complied.) be unavailable to me under a model where past purchases remain valid without a monthly subscription fee?

Granted, this is all hypothetical. I have no plans to be anything but a VIP subscriber at any point- But I don't think that should make it any less valid.

Because being a prerequisite for a thing is not the same as being the thing itself.