Premium Players get less than expected!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Exactly nothing beyond a preview was ever promised at PAX or on the boards. |
Originally Posted by LadyGrimrose
Actually, the devs apologized in the beta and on the live forums that the Preview for the Incarnate system would not be in Going Rogue and had been postponed due to player feedback. The word Preview is paramount here as it is The word taste in the Pax slides. Both mean sneak peak and only that.
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The fun part is preview doesn't even imply permanent access to something.
So your preview of the Incarnate system ended with City of Heroes:Freedom.
Not seeing the problem.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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TwoHeadedBoy asked for an example. I gave one. It has nothing to do with you.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
That your post was a lead less pencil.
Pointless. |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I'd just like access to Alpha to be included if you bought GR, you know since the lead dev's said it was part of GR, and only delayed it due to bad feedback.
Alternativly I'd like purchasing GR to grant a Paragon Vet Reward token, since they've apprantly pulled a bait and switch scam on people.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
Exactly nothing beyond a preview was ever promised at PAX or on the boards.
The fun part is preview doesn't even imply permanent access to something. So your preview of the Incarnate system ended with City of Heroes:Freedom. Not seeing the problem. |
How much is a preview? At pax they said 1 level.
1 level out of ten seems like a good preview.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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You were never told you wouldn't lose anything you had purchased in the past *if* you stopped subscribing to the game. In fact until recently if you stopped subbing you would lose access to everything unless you began paying again. Now that's just true about certain features.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well, when you think about players who purchased the expansion because it allowed them access to certain content, and who were also told that they would never lose anything they purchased in the past, yes... Such players do exist. And a lot of them are making noise in this thread.
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Quote:
The difference is timing. Noone thought that when the bought it.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well, when you think about players who purchased the expansion because it allowed them access to certain content, and who were also told that they would never lose anything they purchased in the past, yes... Such players do exist. And a lot of them are making noise in this thread.
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Now you could argue that, despite the offical info never saying you'd keep access to everything for free (just nearly everything), its possible a dev acccidently made it sound like you would in a video. in which case, you might consider that misleading and you might consider that you are reasonably entitled to a refund for the full amount it cost you to convert your VIP account into a premium account, as you did so under false pretenses.
Happily, that is easily doable.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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I work in customer service, and it is clear the expectation is that you keep what you paid for. Other successfull hybrid pay models allow you to keep what you pay for.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well, when you think about players who purchased the expansion because it allowed them access to certain content, and who were also told that they would never lose anything they purchased in the past, yes... Such players do exist. And a lot of them are making noise in this thread.
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Going Rogue is a paid expansion, and such there are expectations associated with a paid expansion. There are lot of people in this thread hand waving it, or in denial, but that is the truth.
[QUOTE=CactusBrawler;3900882]I'd just like access to Alpha to be included if you bought GR, you know since the lead dev's said it was part of GR, and only delayed it due to bad feedback.[QUOTE]
Although I will point out that people who bought GR have just as much access to Incarnates as they have ever had (subscribe or nothin')...
...i would also like to point out that there is nothing wrong with asking the Devs to include a 'preview' of Incarnates along with Premium status. I think that would be a win-win.
Since the fact that "IOs without IO content" has already been deep-sixed by the board and beta communities, I propose that Premeium Players be allowed access to the Alpha slot, the stuff needed to fill it, and the BAF Trial.
Whether or not Incarnates was part of GR is not the point. The point is Incarnate access to Preemies, and I agree with the idea of allowing them a taste.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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If you don't think the game is worth the money then don't spend the money.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
There is a line between 'game is good, I'll spend money on it' and 'game is only good if I spend money on it'.
It's the MMO equivelent of the DLC issue faced by single player games. |
I'm not seeing the problem.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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On IO's personal opinion is code permitting they should work on a Premium who alreadt has them slotted, but grant no set bonouses.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Since the fact that "IOs without IO content" has already been deep-sixed by the board and beta communities, I propose that Premeium Players be allowed access to the Alpha slot, the stuff needed to fill it, and the BAF Trial.
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Just to prevent the possibility of some one spending real money to unlock a char, and then not having enough inf to actually play the character. SO's can still be pretty pricey after all.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Going Rogue was associated with a cost. Keep trying.
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Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
If you don't think the game is worth the money then don't spend the money.
I'm not seeing the problem. |
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Getting ridiculous? It was ridiculous with the OP.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
This is getting ridiculous, and obviously no one is going to change their mind about the way they perceive the situation... All of that considered, once again: Do you not think it would be fair if Premium players who purchased GR got access to just the Alpha Slot?
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Fair has nothing to do with it. Paragon has spoken. As with everything else in the game, some players like it and others don't.
Some players have convinced themselves they have been slighted, just like with every single change ever made to the game. Other players think there has been no slight, just like with every other change to the game.
As always, watching the 'Kirk vs. Pickard' argument go round and round provides endless entertainment, if, like me, you enjoy watching nerd-rage run it's course until someone passes out from hyperventilating.
Be happy or not, it's a choice. Some people just enjoy playing the martyr. Some people enjoy taunting them. Ah, Internet drama.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
If you don't think the game is worth the money then don't spend the money.
I'm not seeing the problem. |
The problem is if enough people think that the game tanks/goes under.
As I said, figuring out what they can get away with charging extra for, is the current big issue in games development.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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People have been making that prediction every 3 months for the past 8 years. The games still here.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
The problem is if enough people think that the game tanks/goes under.
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I don't think it was a prediction as much as pointing out the flaw in the logic behind "Don't try and get anything changed, just quit if you don't like it."
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
People have been making that prediction every 3 months for the past 8 years. The games still here.
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Originally Posted by The_Prismist
I don't think it was a prediction as much as pointing out the flaw in the logic behind "Don't try and get anything changed, just quit if you don't like it."
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Exactly that.
I mean if I used that logic, surely my ice cream that tastes like poop, business would never fail, I mean if people don't like it they can just not buy it right?
I mean it's not like my ice cream boss in China will close my store if I make no money right?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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I see what you mean.
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Originally Posted by The_Prismist
I don't think it was a prediction as much as pointing out the flaw in the logic behind "Don't try and get anything changed, just quit if you don't like it."
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Quote:
Why would they shut your store down? They can use the financial loss as a tax right off and still make millions selling poop flavored ice cream in Asia because Asians like that flavor.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Exactly that.
I mean if I used that logic, surely my ice cream that tastes like poop, business would never fail, I mean if people don't like it they can just not buy it right? I mean it's not like my ice cream boss in China will close my store if I make no money right? |
http://www.who-sucks.com/food/101-fr...ound-the-world
Some of the flavors listed
Octopus
Squid
Ox Tongue
Fried Eggplant
Crab
Wasabi
Shrimp
Eel
Raw Horseflesh
Goat
Whale
Shark Fin
Oyster
Abalone
Seaweed
Spinach
Garlic
Lettuce & Potatoe
Pit Viper
Charcoal
Tuna Fish
Spaghetti Bolognaise
Carrot
Sauerkraut
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I know, right? Because the way it used to work, if you stopped paying, you got NOTHING! |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Yeah, heaven forfend anyone think that literally years of loyally subbing to a game - with real money, no less - entitles them to a few perks. That kinda thinking has to stop and the sooner the better! *facepalm*
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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And... holding steady at about 11.5 posts per hour. This one is apparently going to take weeks to die out. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
So far, we're averaging better than 11 posts per hour about a non-issue.
GO! GO! GO!  |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Please kill me...
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
There were people that pre-purchased GR that were able to get refunds of that pre-purchase when the Alpha Slot was pulled.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Sure it is. If they didn't refund people who bought GR prior to Alpha slot's removal from the deal, then those peopel still purchased access to the Alpha slot. Hence according to Posi's words, they should keep access to the Alpha slot.
The rest of the incarnate system? To paraphase various 80's movies, "That wasn't part of the deal!" |
How? They asked customer support for a refund as soon as it was announced that the Alpha Slot sneak preview would not be included with GR.
Several people on the forums told them it wouldn't happen.
But CS agreed with them that since that was one of their major decisions in the pre-purchase that removal of that item was a good enough reason for a refund of the pre-purchase.
Of course, they also deleted any Dual Pistols characters and Demon Summoning characters on the account since early access to those powersets were tied to pre-purchasing GR.
So, if that was your reasoning for pre-purchasing GR you had ample opportunity to get a refund. Over a year after GR was released is a bit late to try to play that card.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
There are two separate issues that keep on getting mixed up in this mess of a thread (actually more than two, but these are the two biggest things):
1)
"GR was a Prerequisite for the Incarnate System... The Incarnate System was not a part of GR"
Ignoring any debate of semantics/logic of that general statement and/or any disagreement about this...
WHO CARES? "Tied-to, prerequisite, slightly-related, complete-package-deal, married, legal-union, best-buddies..." What difference does it actually make?
You needed GR to play the Incarnate stuff. Enough said.
2)
Whether anyone likes it or not...
Incarnate content is NOT part of the Free nor Premium package. It is VIP only. They have EVERY right to make it that way. Period. Every deal beforehand was built around the subscription model.
It is legal. "Fair" is somewhat subjective.
They have made it absolutely clear... Incarnate is VIP.
Now...
Make your decisions.
I happen to believe that Incarnate content was a part of GR and that they not only have EVERY right to set up Incarnate Content as VIP only, but that they'd likely be completely out of their minds to offer Incarnate Content to Premiums (other than maybe a steep monthly fee... which would likely be close to $15, hehe, so...).
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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The exact moment this thread got knocked off the rails on the way to Sillytown and crashed into Absurdville.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Exactly that.
I mean if I used that logic, surely my ice cream that tastes like poop, business would never fail, I mean if people don't like it they can just not buy it right? I mean it's not like my ice cream boss in China will close my store if I make no money right? |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Well, when you think about players who purchased the expansion because it allowed them access to certain content, and who were also told that they would never lose anything they purchased in the past, yes... Such players do exist. And a lot of them are making noise in this thread.