Updated Forum Rules and Proposed Forum Changes
By
afocks,
Posted on: 2011-09-22 18:22 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Uhhh...Brutes can tank, very well actually. Where is there a consensus that Brutes are not a Tanker-type AT?|
Originally Posted by Zortel
Re: AT forums - If you can't do the excellent Forum/Sub Forum idea as pictured above, leave them as is. If I want information on Tankers, I go to the Tanker section. A Brute is not a Tanker. A Corruptor is Ranged DPS and Support, not just Ranged DPS. So on, so forth.
If half of my power set is dedicated to buffing and debuffing, am I going to look in Ranged Damage, or Support? |
And again, the point is CONSOLIDATION. If you have ATs appearing in multiple different sub-forums, people aren't necessarily going to know where to go to find information about their particular AT or power-combo.
The restrictions on video game discussions is just as silly now as it was when it was first implemented.
The forums are quiet cause the game population is very low. Merging the forums, and inconveniencing both new and old players alike to artificially make the forum seem busy, is a bad idea.
Also. What's an exploit? "Just use common sense" doesn't cut it when you're trying to establish RULES.
Can't wait until I have to wade through ice/cold defender threads looking for ice/cold controller information.
Stupid idea.
Here is my suggestion for a new forum layout
COX General: I've always felt this was THE main forum, so should have it's own direct link on the main page, not hidden in the obscure "For Fun" section
Official News, Events & Announcements and Development
---Announcements and Discussion: remove the announcements only page, have the original message and all updates in the first post, if the person doesn't want to discuss it, they don't have to. Maybe even merge it with COX General...
---Calendar (maybe have a filter for official events, player events, and both)
---Developer's Corner
---Dev Digest
---Community Digest
Game Systems, Technical Systems, Guides and Help
---General Questions (I think this should be taken out if possible, somehow combine it with Gameplay/Technical)
---Gameplay/Technical Issues and Bugs: combined with Mac Users forum
---Suggestions and Ideas
---Player Guides
---Archetypes and Powers
------Powers General: non-specific power forum
------12 forums for each AT: big NO to the playstyle grouping suggestion
------Incarnates: I feel this should have been added in I20
------Inventions (and the Market): "ideally" inventions would be split from the market, but if that's not an option, at least link to it here
---Badges and Gladiators
---Base Construction
---Mission Architect
---The Market (and Inventions)
---Player vs Player: the 2 categories combined into one. Maybe also have it link in A&P like Market/Inventions
Training Room (could also be a subcategory of Official News or Game Systems)
---Training Room
Servers, Supergroups, and Player Events
---Player Events
---Calendar (see Calendar in Official News section)
---Supergroup Recruitment
---All server forums
For Fun: everything not directly related to playing the game or the servers
---Comic Culture
---Multimedia: combined Screenshots & Fan Creations with Multi-Media CoX
---Social: combined Lounges and Forum games
---Roleplaying: maybe combine it with the Social or Comic Culture section...
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You are making the AT forums more confusing. Fact.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
While I certainly appreciate your viewpoint:
What if we provided guidelines so that posts were easily identifiable within each forum? I don't particularly view it as pigeonholing, simply as...well...simplifying. There's a rather large amount of forums to sift through here on our boards, and to a new, or even veteran player who hasn't spent time on the forums, it's a bit confusing. Forums should be easy to understand at a glance. |
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Those are two very different beasts you're trying to lump together.
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Originally Posted by evertheskeptic
---Social: combined Lounges and Forum games
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Tech Help already has to cope with 4+ different versions of Windows and Linux; Macs are just another PC with a different OS.
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Originally Posted by GadgetDon
But Mac issues are often different from PC issues, so it will create confusion about "wait, is the person talking about issues on the Mac or on the PC"? Also, it's been fairly clean of the platform flame wars that are endemic on the Internet, but sometimes we saw hints of that in the beta forums.
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I've got only one suggestion / request.
Mission Architect doesn't belong under Player Help. It's not strictly a question and answer board; it's also for advertising your arcs, for posting reviews, for discussing the system's nuances and foibles, etc. Putting it under "Player Help" doesn't make a lot of sense. Putting it under "For Fun" would be more appropriate, as it's a general AE discussion group.
(edit: misread a player suggestion as the proposed structure. But my original point about shuffling it stands)
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
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Alright, really, what do you mean?|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
While I certainly appreciate your viewpoint:
What if we provided guidelines so that posts were easily identifiable within each forum? I don't particularly view it as pigeonholing, simply as...well...simplifying. There's a rather large amount of forums to sift through here on our boards, and to a new, or even veteran player who hasn't spent time on the forums, it's a bit confusing. Forums should be easy to understand at a glance. |
I can look at the archetype forums and find which archetype I need info on.
I mean, it's listed right there. How will listing them under partially incorrect groups make this better? It's just going to make it more confusing.
If a new player can't figure out what their own damn archetype is called, then they're gonna have more problems than "What build should I use for this?"
And honestly, if someone doesn't know what their archetype is, even if they're new, they're a scrub. Plain and simple.
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Fact: Wheatley has found gainful employment in forum management.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
You are making the AT forums more confusing. Fact.
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I would have to say no. In its current form it is abundantly clear as to what forum you need to go for AT specific info. any change would complicate this. Just because the game is going free to play doesn't mean the new players coming in, or veteran players that seldom use the forums are somehow less capable of understanding the format.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
While I certainly appreciate your viewpoint:
What if we provided guidelines so that posts were easily identifiable within each forum? I don't particularly view it as pigeonholing, simply as...well...simplifying. There's a rather large amount of forums to sift through here on our boards, and to a new, or even veteran player who hasn't spent time on the forums, it's a bit confusing. Forums should be easy to understand at a glance. |
as far as the other areas of the forums, I can see where they need some consolidation.
one thing would be nice is if posts such as builds could be automatically flagged to appear in a dev digest like page . example I post a build in the dom specific forum and it puts a link in the build digest so that all the builds for any at can be seen in one location, but they are still stored in the AT specific forum.
Leader/Founder of Order Sixty-Six Guardian Server
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
5. Non-Constructive posts are prohibited.
Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of non-constructive posts.
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This section here was bugging me. Related points were scattered about. I've tried to sort the list better.
Edit:
I feel like I'm off topic.
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
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Badges and Gladiators gets purged on a more frequent basis than other sections, which is why there are less threads there. In a lot of cases there should be more purging elsewhere as well.|
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
I have to agree, it's not like the sections are under-used compared to some of the other areas of the board.
Specifically: Multi-Media City of Heroes and Villains, Forum Games, Badges and Gladiators and sadly but understandably the EU, AU & Mac sections, all have less than 1,000 threads (some much less) and in the case of the first 3 could easily be merged in with other sections or removed entirely. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
- When proposing changes, keep two things in mind:
1. Less is better: The less you have to scroll down the page, the fewer forums there are, the simpler it's going to be for a new user/someone unfamiliar with the forums. 2. Less clicks is better: Creating more parent/child forums isn't the solution. Things need to be one click away (Web Design 101 IMO). |
I wish I could subscribe to the Admin and Community Team digests there and have the character copy tool accessible from that page as well.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Get rid of the recruitment and player events forums. People can post that sort of thing in the relevant server forum.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Salt the earth where Forum Games once was.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Consider deleting Player Guides. Most guides can go in either General Discussion or the relevant AT forum.
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The only way reason to remove the Player Guides section would be if Paragon Studios were to buy paragonwiki from the Titan group.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Eliminate these from News, Events & Announcements:
- Supergroup & Villaingroup Recruitment
- Player Events
Eliminate these from Player Help:
- Badges and Gladiators
- Base Construction
- Mac Users
Leave Archetypes & Powers forums as-is. Their current structure is very straightforward and easy to grok.
Merge these forums into one PVP forum:
- PvP Questions, Guides & Builds
- PvP Zones/PvP Arena
Eliminate these from For Fun!:
- The European Lounge
- Oceanic Lounge
Merge these from For Fun!:
- Screenshots & Fan creations
- Multi-Media City of Heroes and Villains
Eliminate this from For Fun!:
- Forum Games
If while you are reshuffling the forums you can fix the log in bug, I'll listen to the next three tangents you do on Ustream with out turning you over to KC and the sunshine band Zwill.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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It keeps them out of the rest of the forum, much like the old pwnz section. It's going to happen whether Paragon Studios wants it to or not, keeping the post padding in one location makes everything easier.|
Originally Posted by Doughboy
Eliminate this from For Fun!:
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Removing it would likely make the forums more cluttered, not less.
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
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I've always viewed it as an excuse not to enforce the rules. Why not make forums for other catagories that are against the forum rules; Other Video Game Discussion Forum, Trolling Forum, /jranger Forum, etc? |
Originally Posted by Oldeb
It keeps them out of the rest of the forum, much like the old pwnz section. It's going to happen whether Paragon Studios wants it to or not, keeping the post padding in one location makes everything easier.
Removing it would likely make the forums more cluttered, not less. |
I don't view Forum Games, but if I were trying to consolidate the boards, that would be one of the first things I'd get rid of.
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It's not perfect but considering the goal of consolidating forums I think it's a broad enough "talk about (almost) anything" forum to fit them both
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Those are two very different beasts you're trying to lump together.
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1) ELIMINATE "Supergroup & Villaingroup Recruitment", as well as "Player Events".|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
We would like to see other suggestions for simplifying the current forum structure.
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VGs and SGs are, BY DEFINITION, restricted to a single server. This should be done in a server forum. As well, the overwhelming majority of player events are single server so this should also be done in a server forum.
2. MERGE "Developers' Corner", "The Global Training Room" and "Character Copy Tool".
These sections have very low activity and are clearly related so should be combined into one.
3. MERGE "The European Lounge" and "Oceanic Lounge"
Even combined, these two sections are far smaller than most server sections.
4. MERGE "Screenshots & Fan creations" and "Multi-Media City of Heroes and Villains"
The Multi-Media section is tiny and, really, is there some dramatic difference between these two sections?
And, offering my two cents on the recurring topic, I also think you should NOT merge the AT sections. Combining them by 'theme' or 'role' could strike new players as the RECOMMENDED way to play those ATs. We don't need to pigeonhole people.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Perhaps this calls for a bigger re-organization of the main categories, grouping similar topics closer together. Something similar to this:
Quote:
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News, Events & Announcements - Announcements - Calendar - News, Events & Announcements Discussion Systems & Features - Paragon Market, Paragon Rewards & Account Features - Costume Creation, Auras & Emotes - Mission Architect - Base Construction & Supergroups / Villaingroups - Player Vs Player - Badges & Gladiators - In-Game Markets & The Invention System - Incarnate Trials & Abilities Player Discussion - Player Questions - Mac Users - Gameplay / Technical Issues & Bugs - Suggestions and Ideas - Guides & Tactics Archetypes & Powers - AT&P General Discussion - Individual AT sections Servers - Individual Server sections Fun & Creativity - General Discussion - European Lounge - Oceanic Lounge - Roleplaying - Comic and Hero/Villain Culture - Screenshots & Fan Creations ((including multi-media)) - Forum Games Development - Developer's Corner - Dev Digest - Community Digest - Global Training Room (Test Server) - "Hot Topic" Bug Report Forums (Beta Server) - Character Copy Tool (Live to Test or Beta) |
As an alternative to merging AT forums, would it be possible to enact some sort of rule that requires people posting guides in said subforum to either keep their information up to date, or see the thread be removed after a certain amount of time?
If threads are current and relevant to what's going on in today's version of the game, it shouldn't matter how many there are, but if players are to sift through threads with old, outdated advice, they'll be more likely to just create a new thread, rather than keep posting in existing threads.
I can see the desire to conform the AT forums to match how the character creator now divides them, but since several ATs can be found in more than one choice (hello, Controllers), I would think that would cause more confusion about where to find or post information than is necessary.
If size is a problem, I'd rather see more purging, than forcing a merger of choices that aren't inherently similar.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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Zortel did not say "Brutes cannot tank".|
Originally Posted by Issen
Uhhh...Brutes can tank, very well actually. Where is there a consensus that Brutes are not a Tanker-type AT?
And again, the point is CONSOLIDATION. If you have ATs appearing in multiple different sub-forums, people aren't necessarily going to know where to go to find information about their particular AT or power-combo. |
Zortel said "Brutes are not Tankers"
There is a dfference. Brutes are Melee/armor, Tankers Armor/Melee.
He also could of said "Dominators are not Controllers" or "Corruptors are not Defenders" - they may able to share roles but they play different.
That was Zortel's point.
And I believe the intent other's had about the Forums by Role was :
Under "Melee DPS" there would be brutes (linking to forum "78" or whatever number it has)
Under Tanking would be Brutes, also linking to forum "78" - basically bringing in how the new character creator is set up.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
You are making the AT forums more confusing. Fact.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
My thoughts on board changes:
I've always thought it a bit odd that there was a separate section for "Supergroup & Villaingroup Recruitment" and "Player Events" outside of the Server boards. I think that these should either be merged into the Server boards or made a sub-board of the individual server boards.
"Player Guides" is another distraction. It should be rolled into the individual areas the guides cover. If I'm looking for a guide on how to build a scrapper, I should look in the Scrapper board rather than 'Player Guides'.
We need a new board for Trial and TF strategy. Right now there are guides mixed into 'Player Guides' that really need their own sub area.
"Archetypes & Powers General Discussion" needs to be rolled into the individual AT boards. The AT boards themselves should probably NOT be merged. Keep one for each basic AT, one for Khelds, and one for VEATs.
PVP areas should probably be merged. PVPers may not agree.
Euro Lounge and Oceanic Lounge should probably be rolled into 'General Discussion'. Ideally, they should be made sub-boards of 'General Discussion' if possible.
"Screenshots & Fan creations" should probably be merged with "Multi-Media City of Heroes and Villains".
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No offense Zwill, but your opinion here (And whoever else proposed this idea) is not very good.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
While I certainly appreciate your viewpoint:
What if we provided guidelines so that posts were easily identifiable within each forum? I don't particularly view it as pigeonholing, simply as...well...simplifying. There's a rather large amount of forums to sift through here on our boards, and to a new, or even veteran player who hasn't spent time on the forums, it's a bit confusing. Forums should be easy to understand at a glance. |
Unlike other games, the City of Hero archetypes are *ALL UNIQUE* -- Yes a Brute can be a Tank but also can be a melee DPS. The forums are not difficult to understand when I first joined this game I did not have trouble going through the various forums.
I agree with the opinions regarding the AT section. I've managed/owned a number of different communities using a variety of different forum software, the AT section is the only section that flows well.
If it was me, I would drop the over used number of categories on the index page. Keep it simple, have a category section header that contains the relevant forums, and if needed relevant subforums.
To outline these forums, I would simply go by activity (for the most part). If you have a forum with one or two posts a week....merge it with something similar. Keep moving down the list until the community forums have a relevant flow. Very simple, 1 hour max! No need to make this over complicated.