Updated Forum Rules and Proposed Forum Changes
By
afocks,
Posted on: 2011-09-22 18:22 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
Fact.
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Classifying say Brutes and Tankers as the only "Tank Class" class is kind of short sited as there are many toons on the servers that "Tank" even though they are Controllers or Defenders.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
While I certainly appreciate your viewpoint:
What if we provided guidelines so that posts were easily identifiable within each forum? I don't particularly view it as pigeonholing, simply as...well...simplifying. There's a rather large amount of forums to sift through here on our boards, and to a new, or even veteran player who hasn't spent time on the forums, it's a bit confusing. Forums should be easy to understand at a glance. |
Ok let me give some feedback as I read farther I didn't realize you wanted ideas until now. Lets look at another major MMORPG game's forums
1) They have a class forum for every class. *CHECK* We do too, do not merge these Archetype Forums.
2) They have a Forum for Tanks, DPS, and Healing. In my opinion, we should also add these forums but have them be something like: (Tanking), (Melee DPS), (Range DPS), (Support, Crowd Control and Pets) -- The last one is 3 labels in one category. -- Or if you want to simplify it even further, just do a Tank/DPS/Support for 3 forums.
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I think they have the Player Guides forum because everything in that forum gets marked as "saved" so it will never be deleted during a forum pruning. If it was in a Scrapper forum guides could be lost.
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Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
My thoughts on board changes:
I've always thought it a bit odd that there was a separate section for "Supergroup & Villaingroup Recruitment" and "Player Events" outside of the Server boards. I think that these should either be merged into the Server boards or made a sub-board of the individual server boards. "Player Guides" is another distraction. It should be rolled into the individual areas the guides cover. If I'm looking for a guide on how to build a scrapper, I should look in the Scrapper board rather than 'Player Guides'. We need a new board for Trial and TF strategy. Right now there are guides mixed into 'Player Guides' that really need their own sub area. "Archetypes & Powers General Discussion" needs to be rolled into the individual AT boards. The AT boards themselves should probably NOT be merged. Keep one for each basic AT, one for Khelds, and one for VEATs. PVP areas should probably be merged. PVPers may not agree. Euro Lounge and Oceanic Lounge should probably be rolled into 'General Discussion'. Ideally, they should be made sub-boards of 'General Discussion' if possible. "Screenshots & Fan creations" should probably be merged with "Multi-Media City of Heroes and Villains". |
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This + the character creator has this kind of division (which I assume is what you're trying to mimic) and it seems beyond redundant to most of us there so why here?
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I honestly think that merging the AT forums would make things more complicated for the new user, not more simplified.
As it is, those divisions are straight-forward and simple. Merge them and it becomes a guessing game as to where what belongs and so on. I completely understand the desire to compress things, but that particular method seems like a wrong move to me. |
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Player Guides don't get purged, other forums do. Most forums have indexes to find relevant guides. I also suggested an "Incarnate" forum in my list of suggestions which can be discussing incarnate powers as well as iTrial strategy and feedback.
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Originally Posted by Puppycrusader
I really like this idea. A quick glance at the Player Guides section shows an incredibly wide
net of subjects - there's AT guides side by side with Trial guides, a guide on picking computer components, guides to channels, accolades, system nittygritty, market stuff... many of those even already have perfectly good sections of their own to be in as it is. Though I'd make it more of a general "Content Strategy" board, so it could handle missions and other content as well. Not that missions generally need as much discussion on how to do them, but there's always room for it(Trapdoor, Spring/Halloween/Winter events, oddities players run into that is or isn't WAI(There's a +5 Ballista in my mission and my settings aren't turned up! Am I supposed to be fighting this, and if so, how!?) A sticky with specific guides at the top, and discussion focused exclusively around content beneath. That'd do me just fine. |
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While I'm sure the technology is there, this sounds way too complicated and (while the data would redirect) feels redundant. Nice try though as it's Very detailed!
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Originally Posted by Commander
Zwill, i have a suggestion about the AT forums. I too am someone that gets lost in the AT forums as it is, so merging them based on damage type would make it ungodly hard to find things. On top of that, with merged AT forums, we're going to run into even MORE bloat as people will be creating thread after thread about the same topics because they won't be able to find what they are looking for.
So my suggestion:... |
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Yes yes, but atleast you know you hit a nerve. ;-)
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
One favor,
Let's not allow this conversation to solely revolve around possibly consolidating AT forums. We would like to see other suggestions for simplifying the current forum structure. |
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Honestly, that'd probably be a good thing happen more often.|
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Player Guides don't get purged, other forums do.
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We have a lot of guides that are... "out of date" is a very kind way to put it. They need
to be updated, or purged. Since updating is less likely, I think they should go in the can.
Forum "natural selection" should decide a guide's survivability. If a guide post hasn't been
used in ages, and disappears, and then someone needs it, it sucks if it isn't there... but it
can also prompt people to get a current one put together, instead of hacking through all
the old info that may or may not be true today. That can only be a positive for providing
people with useful, easier to find information.
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Er... have to say... |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
A couple of things:
- I'm heads down for the rest of the afternoon working on a Power Point presentation. I'll try to check this thread when I get some time tonight. - Keep in mind, the above proposed forum changes are *just that* - Proposed. Nothing is set in stone and is part of the reason I brought this hear to discuss with the Community. - When proposing changes, keep two things in mind: 1. Less is better: The less you have to scroll down the page, the fewer forums there are, the simpler it's going to be for a new user/someone unfamiliar with the forums. |
"No, it isn't."
As it sits right now, sure, there are a fair number of AT forums. That's because we have a fair number of ATs. But if I were looking for information on a Brute, for instance, I wouldn't be looking in the "Tanking" or "Tank" or "Yo, hit me!" forum, because I don't see my Brutes as Tanks most times. I see my Masterminds hitting the Tanking role - "Tankermind" is not an odd portmanteau in this game, any more than "Blapper" is.
SIMPLER is better. But Simpler does not equal "Less" in all cases. And frankly, the way it sits *now* is simpler. Is there an issue with Stalkers? (Well, another?) Putting it in the Stalker forum lets all Stalker players see it - as opposed to having it buried under "How to modify your CEBR" posts and "Which Scrapper for XYZ" posts.
I think all we need is a bit of a spring cleaning. By that I mean go through and clear out the old, unused threads, the out-of-date announcements, and pretty up these somewhat outdated looking forums a bit. Y'know, make them presentable and a bit more accessible- specifically in the guides/player help area. These forums are for VIP players, correct? That's us. We're the ones who will be posting and discussing here and these forums seem to be working well enough for us. Clean up the stuff that freebies will check into (guides/player help/maybe even some servers) but I don't see the need for a big overhaul.
Also, another vote for keeping ATs separate. Most of the updates to the forum rules seem pretty cool with me.
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Not all guides *need* updating. Or go "out of date." Yes, specific builds from i3 aren't going to be as useful, but other items are. |
Originally Posted by Puppycrusader
Honestly, that'd probably be a good thing happen more often.
We have a lot of guides that are... "out of date" is a very kind way to put it. They need to be updated, or purged. Since updating is less likely, I think they should go in the can. Forum "natural selection" should decide a guide's survivability. If a guide post hasn't been used in ages, and disappears, and then someone needs it, it sucks if it isn't there... but it can also prompt people to get a current one put together, instead of hacking through all the old info that may or may not be true today. That can only be a positive for providing people with useful, easier to find information. |
So, no, no purging of the guides, unless by author request (for instance, I have "v1" and "v2" (etc) of some guides - I should be able to request V1 go bye bye. )
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This I like alot, but the AT section looks a bit wordy. Let the character creator be the players introduction to things like Ranged, Melee, etc (if they didn't already know what they meant).
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
My suggestions:
. . . If all my suggestions were taken, the new forums would look like this: |
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A guide that "never needs updating nor response", frankly speaking, doesn't exist. Even in|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Not all guides *need* updating. Or go "out of date." Yes, specific builds from i3 aren't going to be as useful, but other items are.
So, no, no purging of the guides, unless by author request (for instance, I have "v1" and "v2" (etc) of some guides - I should be able to request V1 go bye bye. ) |
the rare case that the information itself never changes or requires additions over
time in any way, people always have questions, comments, need for clarifications, etc.
If a guide recieves neither with as many users as we have in here, then it's fair to say
nobody gives a flip, and the guide isn't actually serving much of a purpose to begin
with. I'm not saying "go in there and clean out everything that looks useless by your own
arbitrary judgement!" of course - just saying that the board should decide. If noone cares,
let it die and stop cluttering things up. If there's a real need for it, people will step up and
take care of it.
Silly question:
What's wrong with "thread necromancy"? Who is harmed by it, and how? I always thought it was the logical alternative to people posting threads without using the search feature.
People are supposed to look for existing threads when possible. Sometimes those existing threads are old. So what?
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If you want to simplify the forums, don't start with the easy-to-understand AT forums. Start with "For Fun!" or "Player Help" or "Development". Start with the (used by a minority) Server forums.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I don't particularly view it as pigeonholing, simply as...well...simplifying. There's a rather large amount of forums to sift through here on our boards, and to a new, or even veteran player who hasn't spent time on the forums, it's a bit confusing.
Forums should be easy to understand at a glance. |
Making the forums "easy to understand at a glance" seems to be pretty weak reasoning when you let those other forum subgroups stand. I suspect a more accurate statement of the reason would be "to make the forums match the character creation screen".
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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Usually when it's a problem, it tends to be people bumping up threads that aren't very|
Originally Posted by seebs
Silly question:
What's wrong with "thread necromancy"? Who is harmed by it, and how? I always thought it was the logical alternative to people posting threads without using the search feature. People are supposed to look for existing threads when possible. Sometimes those existing threads are old. So what? |
relevant. Often in large numbers for trolling purposes, just to clutter up the board.
I think the 30-day policy is awfully overestimative of how fast things can move in some
boards though, particularly ones like AT boards that're more centered on information
rather than babble. I'd have that at 90-days at a bare minimum, personally. More likely
120-180. Chances are if noone's had a thing to say in half a year, there's no reason to
bump it. If someone's just going around bumping old threads because they can, let the
trolling rule take care of them.
Have to agree with the whole 'don't merge the AT forums' vibe.
As mentioned it doesn't make things simpler, infact it makes things vastly more confusing.
After all Brutes are both tanks and melee damage, they can be one or the other, lumping then under 'tanking' isn't really justified, infact Brutes tend to ignore tanking all together usually, one of the most suggested things on a build thread is 'ignore taunt'.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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Gee, now if this is only actually done it would be a start.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Actually a couple of things. First 20KB is a little small for an Avatar. It was fine for 80x80 but 100x100 needs a bit more for a uncompressed image. Say 40KB (100x100x4 bytes per pixel).
However it's still a little small for some animated GIFs. I would say most of the video clip ones are less than 200-250KB, which isn't all that large for an animated GIF. That said I've seen some go up to nearly 2MB. Now that's bending to rules a bit too much.
Oh and why do I know how big people's avatars are? I'm on dial-up and until a couple of years ago I got into the habit of blocking avatars that took more longer to load than the others on the page. Now I have one of those web accelerator proxies that stop animated GIFs and compress jepgs even further.
And the offenders aren't just animated GIFs. This also includes people whose avatar is a high quality, high resolution photo or art. Paint has a way to scale that image down to 100x100, it's not like the tools aren't available people.
Now you, NCSoft/Paragon/your Forum devs could start with the most frequent posters and see how big their avatars are actually and either come up with a more reasonable number or at the very least notify the worst ones and nullify the link. There is only around 3200 people with 1000 or more posts. Sounds like a job for an intern.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
On the main page it would be nice to have an English - Francais - Deutsch drop down and appropriate sections that keyed off of that. Save the info in a never expiring cookie with the language drop down always visible. Default to English. That would un-clutter the front page significantly.
Please do not merge the Archetype sections.
Change "News, Events and Announcements" to "Announcements and Developer Discussion" with the "Announcements/Announcements Discussion", "Calendar", and "Developers Digest and Developers Corner" (merged) only.
Move the "Player Events", "SG & VG Recruitment", "Player Help", "AT", and "Server" under a generic "By Players For Players" section.
Promote the "Character Copy Tool" to a www.cityofheroes.com/testing/cctool page. It really isn't a forum item, it should be under "Support Center" or "Community".
Just some random thoughts.
Father Xmas, those items you quoted are in the currently posted Message Forum Rules and Guidelines thread that theOcho posted in August of 2010. The same one linked at the top of every forum subsection.
I think it may have been in the rules before that, but I don't recall for certain.
One of the problems has always been the lack of consistent application of the posted rules. It's been that way since (at least) the inception of the forums once the game was released.
Modifications or rewording of the rules does nothing to address that problem.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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No 'psuedo' self-censoring, a la asterisks/"partial masking"?|
9. Avoid using profanity. City of Heroes Freedom is rated T for Teen. As such, profanity in any form is prohibited. Using any means to bypass the profanity filter (for example: partial masking, such as asterisks or punctuation marks) is prohibited. This rule also includes any images displayed on the forums, or any pages directly linked to from the forums. |
Well okay then, If you insist... "So it is written, so shall it be"
A virtual plethora of Euphemisms - WAY more offensive than any 'mundane' or 'natural profanity'.
And henceforth, It shall span the forums - both far and wide - Like unto a great sea, spread across a vast, and fathomless ocean...
Note: It's worse this way, Because you'll undoubtedly have to end up either checking Google (a dangerous prospect) or reference the urban dictionary for the latest & greatest offensive 'meme' = AND THEN, you'll undoubtedly stumble across the likes of something that Adult Minds Were Not Meant To Know!
Just saying, You were warned.
/handwave "Move along now, nothing to see here..." 
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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Cardiff_Giant, that provision is actually in the currently posted Message Forum Rules and Guidelines, albeit without the "City of Heroes Freedom is rated T for Teen" section.
EDIT: It's pretty well been in the forum rules as long as I can recall. Again, inconsistencies in applying the rules have been around since the forums started.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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As an Oceanic player I can see no reason to have a separate forum. I think most Oceanic players would post in Player Help, their own server or AT forums before even thinking about posting in the Oceanic forum. To be honest I didn't even realise there was a Oceanic forum.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
That is a good question for the Euro and Oceanic Communities to chime in on. We would never make that change without a pretty sizable amount of support from them.
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net of subjects - there's AT guides side by side with Trial guides, a guide on picking
computer components, guides to channels, accolades, system nittygritty, market stuff...
many of those even already have perfectly good sections of their own to be in as it is.
Though I'd make it more of a general "Content Strategy" board, so it could handle missions
and other content as well. Not that missions generally need as much discussion on how to
do them, but there's always room for it(Trapdoor, Spring/Halloween/Winter events, oddities
players run into that is or isn't WAI(There's a +5 Ballista in my mission and my settings
aren't turned up! Am I supposed to be fighting this, and if so, how!?)
A sticky with specific guides at the top, and discussion focused exclusively around content
beneath. That'd do me just fine.