Personally, I *do* play a lot of Doms, and have been lobbying to get Dark Control/Domination and Dark Assault (mostly the latter) for a long time. And while I'm disappointed it's not here with this round of proliferation, I've gotten the sense that Paragon is working on it. As such, I'm content to wait til it's ready to go, rather than getting released with a "throw it in the pool and see if it swims" attitude.
As for what "rights" being a paying player entitles one to, some folks may want to go back and read the EULA that we all have to click "accept" on when we log in, but I can easily sum it up:
1) You have the right to play the game.
2) You have the right to stop paying for it, and quit playing the game.
There. That's it. Nothing about updates, graphic improvements, new content of any kind, bug fixes, anything. Granted, if all of this never happened, a lot of folks would be exercising right #2, but that's really all there is to it.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
I am not here to complain or get upset that Dominators are not getting a new power set. I just want to point out that after Power Proliferation 3.0 Doms and Masterminds will have the lowest number of powersets.
Number of Primary (P) and Secondary (S)Power per each AT
Blaster (P)11 (S)7
Controller (P)7 (S)10
Defender (P)11 (S)11
Scrapper (P)11 (S)9
Tanker (P)9 (S)11
Brute (P)12 (S)10
Corruptor (P)11 (S)11
Dominator (P)6 (S)7
Mastermind (P)5 (S)9
Stalker (P)9 (S)8
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
[QUOTE=Jibikao;3736189]My only problem with it is that this is the 3rd major proliferation and I think every AT should get at least something. I am not sporting a huge hard-on for Illusion Control.
I like to pretend I am sporting a huge hard-on, but its just an illusion....
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)
Quote:
Honestly, can I have some cheese with that whine? A while back, Sunstorm explained the problems with Dark for Doms- |
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Exactly. This means illusion is NOT being proliferated and quite possibly no dark assault either (as it is as 'low hanging fruit' as the new blaster dark manipulation). And if neither is being ported/added, then that needs to be explained sooner than later.
This is ridiculous that doms are supposed to sit quietly and wait for whatever 'exciting' news comes their way in a few months. Meanwhile everyone else gets to play with new sets. Hurray! And if it's some new control set, you know it'll be shared with controllers, who'll then have 9 primaries to our 8 and something like 11 secondaries to our 8. So they'll have yet another bone thrown their way. I'm tired of having to wait for new sets until either blasters or controllers get theirs. Therefore, I am protesting this proliferation news. |
Here's the text of the post-
"Actually Synapse and I have been puzzling over the dark sets. Just for fun, I'll shed some light on the subject.
So, lets start this with a riddle, since the explanation is just as incomprehensible. Why does Dark Miasma overlapping Dark Control powers make a straight port of Dark Manipulation problematic?
The explanation is, there are a couple powersets that would be sharing an interesting combination of powers. For example, Controllers want Dark Control and Dark Miasma, except Dark Miasma is already a very control heavy set which would supply a lot of Dark Controls powers. Combining Dark/Dark this way could lead to a lot of overalap.
Dominators would want Dark Control and Dark Assault, so Dark Assault would have to be careful not to include control powers from Dark Blast or Dark melee.
Blasters are easier, however the powers that go to blasters would likely be included in Dark Assault, which goes opposite dark control.
Then there are the general AT wide no-no's. Such as: giving armor powers to non-armored classes, or overlapping powers alread in patron pools.
So in the end, it's not designing one powerset. It's designing 3 different powersets:
Dark Control/Dark Miasma for Controllers
Dark Control/Dark Assault for Dominators
Dark Blast/Dark Manipulation for Blasters
Well, that's enough "dark" for several posts. And no, nothing is in the works yet."
That was posted 7/23/09 and obviously things got pushed around with GR. BUT- my point is this, it looks like they've succeded in designing the Blaster component- so Doms will be after that then Controllers. My guess is That After I21, Doms get Dark/Dark, and new sets. THEN controllers will get Dark Control but not a Dark secondary. I'm willing to wait on that.
And for the record, I hope Illusion never gets ported or it's one of the Last sets to go- it's a really poor control set that disguises chaos and uncontrollable pets as "control".
BTW- here's a link to the post itself-
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=213
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
Quote:
Or when they do port it they are planning changes that will involve new animations. Say, a new power to replace Group Invisibility or a customizable Phantom Army.
|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
At least we know that Illusion Control isn't ready for Dominator or isn't going to happen because that's the only set left that doesn't require any new animation/graphic.
|
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Benchpresser
And for the record, I hope Illusion never gets ported or it's one of the Last sets to go- it's a really poor control set that disguises chaos and uncontrollable pets as "control". |
Ya illusion is "chaos and uncontrollable pets" but don't delusion yourself it controls very well if the right hands. The "chaos and uncontrollable pets" is the beauty of the set hardly anything like the other control sets. I want this set so badly for doms more then any other set for any other AT.
Quote:
Your numbers are off quite a bit for a few of the ATs. If you add what they currently have + new sets + proliferated sets, you get the following numbers come I21 (multiplication shows the total possible combinations for unique builds):|
Originally Posted by Big_Soto
I am not here to complain or get upset that Dominators are not getting a new power set. I just want to point out that after Power Proliferation 3.0 Doms and Masterminds will have the lowest number of powersets.
Number of Primary (P) and Secondary (S)Power per each AT Blaster (P)11 (S)7 Controller (P)7 (S)10 Defender (P)11 (S)11 Scrapper (P)11 (S)9 Tanker (P)9 (S)11 Brute (P)12 (S)10 Corruptor (P)11 (S)11 Dominator (P)6 (S)7 Mastermind (P)5 (S)9 Stalker (P)9 (S)8 |
Blaster = 11 x 7 = 77
Controller = 8 x 11 = 88
Defender = 12 x 11 = 132
Scrapper = 12 x 9 = 108
Tanker = 9 x 12 = 108
Brute = 13 x 10 = 130
Corruptor = 11 x 12 = 132
Dominator = 8 x 8 = 64
Mastermind = 6 x 10 = 60
Stalker = 10 x 8 = 80
Hero AT total = 513
Villain AT total = 466
Avg combinations = 98
If you factor in the available APPs/PPPs, the difference is even greater:
Blaster = 11 x 7 = 77 x 9 = 693
Controller = 8 x 11 = 88 x 9 = 792
Defender = 12 x 11 = 132 x 8 = 1056
Scrapper = 12 x 9 = 108 x 8 = 864
Tanker = 9 x 12 = 108 x 8 = 864
Brute = 13 x 10 = 130 x 8 = 1040
Corruptor = 11 x 12 = 132 x 8 = 1056
Dominator = 8 x 8 = 64 x 8 = 512
Mastermind = 6 x 10 = 60 x 8 = 480
Stalker = 10 x 8 = 80 x 8 = 640
Hero AT total = 4269
Villain AT total = 3728
Avg combinations = 800
Looking at that, dominators have the second fewest play choices by a significant margin. Compared to their cousin ATs, they have 181 fewer options than blasters and 280 fewer than controllers.
Post-I21, if the special news means a new control and a new assault set, they'll have 9 x 9 x 8 = 648 combinations, which will move them up to third fewest (ahead of just MMs and stalkers), but still less than blasters and controllers. However, controllers will presumably get the same control set and have 9 x 11 x 9 = 891 combinations at that point. Blasters MIGHT get another manipulation set out of the deal if the new dominator powersets are NOT darkness (say radiation), which would give them 11 x 8 x 9 = 792 .
At any rate, several of you are apparently okay with being next to last for the foreseeable future. You're willing to wait months for increased play options and will settle for being near the bottom even after you get something new.
I, for one, am/will not and my protest will continue. Thank you for your support.
Please buff Ice Control.
Quote:
lol okay
|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I, for one, am/will not and my protest will continue. Thank you for your support.
|
What if ... thought just came to me.... What if the Dark control set is going to feature "dark" versions ofour fav Illusion powers and some new darkity dark stuff?
Quote:
Did you already make every single Dominator combo possible? If not, go back to your cave and stop wasting our time. |
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
lolpost
|
If Doms get another Assault set, it's very likely Blasters will get another Manipulation set, too. If they get a control primary, Controllers get it, too. There is no way to outnumber either, and the only reason both of these ATs have so many combos is because there are more buff and blast sets compared to control sets. Big deal..
And yet again its is not unreasonable to understand that an AT that came around several years later would have less powersets than ones that were around from launch.
I mean really..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
Isn't that the point of proliferation? To give the existing sets to those ATs that can use them? Yet that's not happening here. What is happening is that new sets are being created (Time and Dark in this instance) and given to older ATs so that the gap widens. Dominators are being told to wait like good little boys and girls because some day they'll get a new toy, too.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
And yet again its is not unreasonable to understand that an AT that came around several years later would have less powersets than ones that were around from launch.
I mean really.. |
And this theory doesn't explain brutes and corruptors, either. If newer ATs were just naturally behind the older ones, then all 5 villain ATs would be at the bottom.
You know I'm shocked so many of you are willing to settle for 2nd to last place. You're okay with having fewer options. You're okay with not having low hanging fruit (illusion control and dark assault) put on your table, too. You're okay with Time Manipulation being a buff set and not a control set. You're okay with the melee classes getting Titan Weapons and all we get is super secret promises.
It's time to wake up and join the protest rather than following the devs like sheep to pasture.
Please buff Ice Control.
Quote:
Please, please, for the love of anything and everything, keep posting. The lols have made this thread so worth reading.
|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Isn't that the point of proliferation? To give the existing sets to those ATs that can use them? Yet that's not happening here. What is happening is that new sets are being created (Time and Dark in this instance) and given to older ATs so that the gap widens. Dominators are being told to wait like good little boys and girls because some day they'll get a new toy, too.
And this theory doesn't explain brutes and corruptors, either. If newer ATs were just naturally behind the older ones, then all 5 villain ATs would be at the bottom. You know I'm shocked so many of you are willing to settle for 2nd to last place. You're okay with having fewer options. You're okay with not having low hanging fruit (illusion control and dark assault) put on your table, too. You're okay with Time Manipulation being a buff set and not a control set. You're okay with the melee classes getting Titan Weapons and all we get is super secret promises. It's time to wake up and join the protest rather than following the devs like sheep to pasture. |
/thinks the OP should ask for a name change to "DarkIWant!"
//thinks it's also a good thing I'm not a mod or it would've been done already.
Quote:
You think it's funny that the dominator AT is given 'back burner' priority by the development team while everyone else gets new sets and proliferated sets and has their powers fixed when ported to hero ATs (energy armor) while even older control sets run around with messed up powers (gravity and ice control)?
|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Please, please, for the love of anything and everything, keep posting. The lols have made this thread so worth reading.
|
Please buff Ice Control.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
(multiplication shows the total possible combinations for unique builds):
Blaster = 11 x 7 = 77 Controller = 8 x 11 = 88 Defender = 12 x 11 = 132 Scrapper = 12 x 9 = 108 Tanker = 9 x 12 = 108 Brute = 13 x 10 = 130 Corruptor = 11 x 12 = 132 Dominator = 8 x 8 = 64 Mastermind = 6 x 10 = 60 Stalker = 10 x 8 = 80 Hero AT total = 513 Villain AT total = 466 Avg combinations = 98 |
Fun with numbers. And half meaningless, unless you are just determined to be angry about it.
What you are counting are powerset totals. You're neglecting to account for the fact that powersets are shared. For example, you are counting Brutes and Scrappers as two seperate archetypes with completely different powers. In reality, if a set is shared by both archetypes someone is unlikely to play that combo twice.
Q: Which 3 archetypes have the fewest number of combos?
A: Blasters, Masterminds, and Dominators.
Q: Which 3 archetypes get an entire powerset type to themselves so that when a new powerset gets added, the total count is less but the odds are much lower the player already has at least one character with that powerset?
A: Blasters, Masterminds, and Dominators.
Power set types that are shared need more powers sets than unshared sets or people would run out. Most people don't want to play Thermal 4 times, but you are counting the powers as if that's what happens. If I wanted to write a complaint about it, Corruptors and Defenders get "shafted" because they are almost carbon copies of each other, and on top of that share their powers with Blasters, Controllers, and Masterminds. The chances for a totally unique combo relative to Dominators is far lower. But of course that complaint is ridiculous and a manipulation of numbers so we will hang it up there.
Quote:
I laughed so hard at this before I realized he was serious. | I hate to pull rank here, but I'm a 7 year veteran and VI-friggin-P and I demand to be treated as such! |
Quote:
Fix't.
|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
|
Quote:
So, you're saying, you only play Dominators? And you have one 64 of them?
|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
At any rate, several of you are apparently okay with being next to last for the foreseeable future. You're willing to wait months for increased play options and will settle for being near the bottom even after you get something new.
I, for one, am/will not and my protest will continue. Thank you for your support. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
To be fair, Kleldians have the least powset combo: 1 x 1.
Just saying... XD
Quote:
But wait! If you add in APP/PPPs to the possible powerset combo pool you get an awe-inspiring grand total of......|
Originally Posted by Angelic_EU
To be fair, Kleldians have the least powset combo: 1 x 1.
Just saying... XD |
1x1
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Quote:
Him being serious IS what made me laugh so hard.|
Originally Posted by Barbie_Ink
I laughed so hard at this before I realized he was serious.
|
If there was a Reader's Choice award for forum threads, I'd nominate this one for sheer ego volume and stupidity levels.
Also, just to throw the barking dog (well, poorly trained puppy) a bone : the devs said IN SO MANY WORDS that the reason Doms didn't get proliferated stuff this time, aside from the tech reasons aforementinned, is that they are getting BRAND NEW, UNSEEN BEFORE, ALL SHINY stuff in i21. So for pity's sake, stop whinning, entertaining though it certainly is for the rest of us.
I swear, this thread is like that animated gif of the morbidly fat kid bouncing around from a few years back. You know you should be horrified and pity him, but a part of you still laughs... and laughs... And laughs.
Quote:
Technically, they said after i21 because all the art people are busy. "After i21" is also when Titan Weapons is supposed to be released.
|
Originally Posted by Netphenix5
Also, just to throw the barking dog (well, poorly trained puppy) a bone : the devs said IN SO MANY WORDS that the reason Doms didn't get proliferated stuff this time, aside from the tech reasons aforementinned, is that they are getting BRAND NEW, UNSEEN BEFORE, ALL SHINY stuff in i21.
|
Quote:
I stand corrected. Still, that's more than they promised for any other archetype.
| Technically, they said after i21 because all the art people are busy. |
So no. Wrong.
You can buy candies for all your kids but one. It's nothing wrong. You won't go to jail for it but It's just that one kid is unhappy, especially one of the kids get two new sets (dark/dark) and one set /poison is going to get a lot of buffs.
Dom did get Electricity Control just like other ATs got Dual Pistol, Electricity and Kinetic Melee. What Dom get isn't exactly a "special treatment". I do know Dom's sets require more testing/work and that's why I am surprised they did not include Illusion Control this time. I can understand no Assault.
And then again, I am not "protesting". I am just surprised that Illusion isn't included. I can understand where the "bitterness" comes from. I don't even play Dom that much now.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.