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Illusion Control does not need any new animation at all. Some ATs only get one new set like Stalker and controller. They are just existing sets (although Stalker's Ice Armor has one new power, maybe not new animation)|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
As I said in the other thread, they've said that the animation team is booked until after Issue 21, so the sets chosen for proliferation were ones that required no new animations. Which could mean that whatever they are planning to give Doms post-21 will require new animations.
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They can easily give Dominator Illusion Control, which is an existing set. They can come up another assault later. :P
So the argument that "animation team is booked" does not stand, at least not in Illusion control. I just think it's bad business that you call it "Proliferation 3rd" when one of the core ATs (Dominator) doesn't even get anything. I am not angry or anything but I can see why some Dom fans are not happy about it when Blaster is getting two new sets. Yes, I consider Dark Blast a new set because they actually need to make two new powers (one aoe knockback and one hold), make an Aim and whatever new powers in /Dark secondary. It's like why is Blaster getting all that attention?
As for "goodies" for Dominator, well, I consider Dark/Dark a "goodie" as well and it's "free". By the time they design something new for Dominator, it may be a "Cash Item". It will certainly be a "goodie" for them. The funny thing is I'll pay for Illusion Control just because I can't stand Controller.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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It could be a matter of testing.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Illusion Control does not need any new animation at all. Some ATs only get one new set like Stalker and controller. They are just existing sets (although Stalker's Ice Armor has one new power, maybe not new animation)
They can easily give Dominator Illusion Control, which is an existing set. They can come up another assault later. :P So the argument that "animation team is booked" does not stand, at least not in Illusion control. I just think it's bad business that you call it "Proliferation 3rd" when one of the core ATs (Dominator) doesn't even get anything. I am not angry or anything but I can see why some Dom fans are not happy about it when Blaster is getting two new sets. Yes, I consider Dark Blast a new set because they actually need to make two new powers (one aoe knockback and one hold), make an Aim and whatever new powers in /Dark secondary. It's like why is Blaster getting all that attention? As for "goodies" for Dominator, well, I consider Dark/Dark a "goodie" as well and it's "free". By the time they design something new for Dominator, it may be a "Cash Item". It will certainly be a "goodie" for them. The funny thing is I'll pay for Illusion Control just because I can't stand Controller. |
Limited time in animation for sure. There's also likely only so much they can test.
What if the set is to good? What then? Release it and then it gets nerfed so much people are saying, why not nerf Troller version too?
Or maybe it's so bad, they need to buff it, then others are saying why not buff Troller version?
I'm sure there are plenty willing to test it, but they may not have the time to put towards making the changes to the set if any are needed.
Maybe they have plans to port it and improve it!
Turn Superior Invis and Group Invis into 1 power...toggle invis with a splash effect when cast, that way Illusion gets access to another power, that could possibly benefit Containment AND Domination.
I mean really, I can't be the only one who thought both of those powers in one set was kinda meh
And I know I prefere SI over GI (why I gave my suggestion, that way it keeps everyone happy).
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Turn Superior Invis and Group Invis into 1 power...toggle invis with a splash effect when cast, that way Illusion gets access to another power, that could possibly benefit Containment AND Domination.
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I just hope it won't be a "cash item" by the time Illusion Control comes to the red side. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
It could be a matter of testing.
Limited time in animation for sure. There's also likely only so much they can test. What if the set is to good? What then? Release it and then it gets nerfed so much people are saying, why not nerf Troller version too? Or maybe it's so bad, they need to buff it, then others are saying why not buff Troller version? I'm sure there are plenty willing to test it, but they may not have the time to put towards making the changes to the set if any are needed. Maybe they have plans to port it and improve it! Turn Superior Invis and Group Invis into 1 power...toggle invis with a splash effect when cast, that way Illusion gets access to another power, that could possibly benefit Containment AND Domination. I mean really, I can't be the only one who thought both of those powers in one set was kinda meh And I know I prefere SI over GI (why I gave my suggestion, that way it keeps everyone happy). |
I am not too sure if the invisible powers matter that much. I mean my Illusion troller didn't even take it. I would rather take tough/weave instead.
Yes, it is true that few powers in Illusion benefit from Domination but is the current version really that bad? And if the current version is "too good", then what does it say about Illusion/Rad that can solo so many AVs already due to Phantom Army?
I just think it's bitter that Dominator doesn't get anything this time while Blaster got two new sets and I am sure those require testing as well?
And what is this "exciting" plan?? If Illusion Control did get transferred here several months later, what's "exciting" about it? It should have happened several months earlier...
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Illusion Control does not need to be buffed for porting over to Dominators. That's not to say they won't do it, but it doesn't need it. It may in fact need a nerf.
If I were a developer, I would be extremely cautious with a couple of ports. Traps Controllers and Cold Masterminds are two. Illusion Dominators would be third.
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Can you imagine the "cry" if Dominator's Illusion Control is a nerfed version? :P|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Illusion Control does not need to be buffed for porting over to Dominators. That's not to say they won't do it, but it doesn't need it. It may in fact need a nerf.
If I were a developer, I would be extremely cautious with a couple of ports. Traps Controllers and Cold Masterminds are two. Illusion Dominators would be third. |
If they eventually decide to nerf Illusion, troller's version will be nerfed as well. It may get a modified version with an immb or some sort. This is pure guess of course. I do enjoy having more diversity in each powerset and Illusion is unique enough. Hopefully they don't mess with that uniqueness too much.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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My take on "X Set will be OP on MMs!" is this:|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Illusion Control does not need to be buffed for porting over to Dominators. That's not to say they won't do it, but it doesn't need it. It may in fact need a nerf.
If I were a developer, I would be extremely cautious with a couple of ports. Traps Controllers and Cold Masterminds are two. Illusion Dominators would be third. |
MMs can currently team up with a Defender or two or three that has that set. This means their pets can already be buffed with the strongest version of those buffs.
Why is *that* not OP but if the MM had the weaker version of those buffs, it would be?
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
My take on "X Set will be OP on MMs!" is this:
MMs can currently team up with a Defender or two or three that has that set. This means their pets can already be buffed with the strongest version of those buffs. Why is *that* not OP but if the MM had the weaker version of those buffs, it would be? |
For the same reason a Defender is allowed to have Force Fields they can put on a resistance Tanker who has no defense? For the same reason a Fire/Emp Controller can receive mezz protection and AB from another Emp but not just apply it to himself? I don't think its a controversial statement to say these sets don't work the same across archetypes.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Can you imagine the "cry" if Dominator's Illusion Control is a nerfed version? :P
If they eventually decide to nerf Illusion, troller's version will be nerfed as well. It may get a modified version with an immb or some sort. This is pure guess of course. I do enjoy having more diversity in each powerset and Illusion is unique enough. Hopefully they don't mess with that uniqueness too much. |
I doubt they would nerf Illusion Control [edit: on Controllers] directly. At best they might continue what they've done up to this point, which is 'rebalance' it by changing the nature of hard targets.
Anyway, they are sort of stuck. If they nerf Illusion Control for Dominators, they will have to hear about it. If they don't, they will have to deal with quasi-Blasters with perma-mezz protection, Phantom Army, and access to broken APP powers like Sleet that were ported but never modified versus the version available in buff/debuff sets.
[Dominator Sleet, however should be nerfed. It is supposed to be somewhat worse than the "true" version of the power according to APP and PPP rules but was never modified. The issue here isn't just that it competes directly with Controllers/Defenders as it is the fact that its loads better than most of what else is available in the APPs/PPPs for Dominators.]
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Exactly. This means illusion is NOT being proliferated and quite possibly no dark assault either (as it is as 'low hanging fruit' as the new blaster dark manipulation). And if neither is being ported/added, then that needs to be explained sooner than later.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I just hope it won't be a "cash item" by the time Illusion Control comes to the red side.
I am not too sure if the invisible powers matter that much. I mean my Illusion troller didn't even take it. I would rather take tough/weave instead. Yes, it is true that few powers in Illusion benefit from Domination but is the current version really that bad? And if the current version is "too good", then what does it say about Illusion/Rad that can solo so many AVs already due to Phantom Army? I just think it's bitter that Dominator doesn't get anything this time while Blaster got two new sets and I am sure those require testing as well? And what is this "exciting" plan?? If Illusion Control did get transferred here several months later, what's "exciting" about it? It should have happened several months earlier... |
This is ridiculous that doms are supposed to sit quietly and wait for whatever 'exciting' news comes their way in a few months. Meanwhile everyone else gets to play with new sets. Hurray!
And if it's some new control set, you know it'll be shared with controllers, who'll then have 9 primaries to our 8 and something like 11 secondaries to our 8. So they'll have yet another bone thrown their way.
I'm tired of having to wait for new sets until either blasters or controllers get theirs. Therefore, I am protesting this proliferation news.
Please buff Ice Control.
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Well, I'm not saying anything bad will come to ILL when ported to Doms. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I just hope it won't be a "cash item" by the time Illusion Control comes to the red side.
I am not too sure if the invisible powers matter that much. I mean my Illusion troller didn't even take it. I would rather take tough/weave instead. Yes, it is true that few powers in Illusion benefit from Domination but is the current version really that bad? And if the current version is "too good", then what does it say about Illusion/Rad that can solo so many AVs already due to Phantom Army? I just think it's bitter that Dominator doesn't get anything this time while Blaster got two new sets and I am sure those require testing as well? And what is this "exciting" plan?? If Illusion Control did get transferred here several months later, what's "exciting" about it? It should have happened several months earlier... |
Like I said, they may have figured it was a set that may need extra testing or some such, so decided to wait on it.
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I Don't see nothing wrong, Remember Change is good Ok, Power-Set Proliferation been done so many times already in the past, Also Power Sets been change as well. The Power Changes don't look too bad, I already check it already, Energy Aura is getting a self heal, Doesn't sound to bad too me. You Can't fight Change no one can, History Shows that.
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I'm launching an official protest of the I21 powerset proliferation. No proliferation and nothing new for dominators coming this year is an outrage. Meanwhile blasters get Dark Manipulation created for them. Low hanging fruit indeed. I could say the same about a dark control set. Oh, and looking at the power changes for energy aura and poison, I don't see why those cottage rule breakings aren't being applied to an illusion port or to getting rid of Dimension Shift in gravity.
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Exactly. This means illusion is NOT being proliferated and quite possibly no dark assault either (as it is as 'low hanging fruit' as the new blaster dark manipulation). And if neither is being ported/added, then that needs to be explained sooner than later.
This is ridiculous that doms are supposed to sit quietly and wait for whatever 'exciting' news comes their way in a few months. Meanwhile everyone else gets to play with new sets. Hurray! And if it's some new control set, you know it'll be shared with controllers, who'll then have 9 primaries to our 8 and something like 11 secondaries to our 8. So they'll have yet another bone thrown their way. I'm tired of having to wait for new sets until either blasters or controllers get theirs. Therefore, I am protesting this proliferation news. |
Do you really sit around angry that if a new Control set is added, Controllers will also get it? And in what way exactly are you prevented from playing a Controller yourself?
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My only problem with it is that this is the 3rd major proliferation and I think every AT should get at least something. I am not sporting a huge hard-on for Illusion Control. I just think that set is "ready" to be ported because the "awesome" powers in that set are pets anyway and there is no need for new animations/graphic.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I'm tired of having to wait for new sets until either blasters or controllers get theirs. Therefore, I am protesting this proliferation news.
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What's working for Controller should work for Dominator as well and if it sucks, it sucks. It's not like Gravity control was well designed for Dominator's need anyway, but it still has one cool power in Wormhole, just like Phantom Army will be just as cool for Dominator. Dominator can skip Propel and I am sure some will skip the invisible powers.
Them not porting Illusion this time means that they are not comfortable with the current version on Dominator. And I wouldn't exactly classify Illusion as "exciting". If anything, I would guess we won't see Illusion at all (or it may be eventually a Cash Item because people want it too much). We'll see something different like Whip Assault / Crowd Control natural set. Now that's more exciting than Illusion. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I'm protesting the unequal treatment dominators are receiving. Having fewer playing options than the next closest ATs (blasters and controllers) and watching those ATs get even more choices while dominators have to wait for their proliferation or only get something new if it's shareable is unfair.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Do you really sit around angry that if a new Control set is added, Controllers will also get it? And in what way exactly are you prevented from playing a Controller yourself?
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Please buff Ice Control.
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Well, have fun with that!
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I'm protesting the unequal treatment dominators are receiving.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Cool story, bro.
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I'm protesting the unequal treatment dominators are receiving. Having fewer playing options than the next closest ATs (blasters and controllers) and watching those ATs get even more choices while dominators have to wait for their proliferation or only get something new if it's shareable is unfair.
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No-one is being short-changed here. Powerset proliferation is irrelevant to existing Dominator characters.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I'm protesting the unequal treatment dominators are receiving. Having fewer playing options than the next closest ATs (blasters and controllers) and watching those ATs get even more choices while dominators have to wait for their proliferation or only get something new if it's shareable is unfair.
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Players are all being given the same new powersets choices, unless they only play certain archetypes. And if they do, they are delibrately excluding themselves from much of the powerset content.
I really don't se the us and them you're talking about here. Everyone has the same playing options when they make a new character.
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Actually, I would say Dark Assault is not quite as low hanging fruit as Dark Manipulation. The problem is that the Dark Set's "shtick" has always been that they are control heavy. That means that the design of Dark Assault ties heavily into the design of Dark Control (which in turn is heavily tied into what happens when Controllers get Dark Maisma).|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
quite possibly no dark assault either (as it is as 'low hanging fruit' as the new blaster dark manipulation).
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Dark Blast is already somewhat control heavy and you can bet the devs took the powers there into account when designing Dark Manipulation. Unfortunately, since Dark Control does not currently exist so the devs probably want to design that before locking down Dark Assault. There are a number of existing Dark powers that could potentially be used in either Dark Control or Dark Assault (Cloak of Fear, Oppressive Gloom, Dark Pit, Fearsome Stare, Tenebrous Tentacles etc.) so designing one without having at least a basic plan for the other is a bad idea.
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Sorry, but you're the one purposefully limiting yourself by choosing to only play Dominators then having a hissy-fit that the devs aren't giving you more choices. You've chosen, not been forced, to only play 49 out of the 766 available non-EAT powerset combinations by labeling yourself a "Dominator." Honestly, you seem to be the one making a rod for your own back and then blaming the devs for it.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I'm protesting the unequal treatment dominators are receiving. Having fewer playing options than the next closest ATs (blasters and controllers) and watching those ATs get even more choices while dominators have to wait for their proliferation or only get something new if it's shareable is unfair.
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Would I like to see Doms get a proliferated set or two this time round? Hell yes! Doms are my favourite archetype in the game (even when I'm swearing on TS about the PToD
), I'm levelling two atm. But I'm content to wait and see what we get post-I21. In the meantime, I'll enjoy a Dark/Dark Blaster (I adore my D3 Defender) and probably give the new EA a twirl as well.
So let me get this straight. the complaint is that Blasters and Controllers who have been around since the beginning have more powersets than the AT that came around several years later???
Did you just ignore the fact that Earth Assault a totally NEW powerset was added issue 16 and Electric Control a totally NEW powerset was added in Issue 18 ?
AND the Devs has said they are working on something for Doms they just were not able to get it into Issue 21..
So Doms HAVE gotten BRAND NEW stuff. They have gotten it recently.. AND they are getting it again..
Yeah.. I dont expect your protest to garner much support.. sorry..
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/this. |
Originally Posted by Airhammer
Did you just ignore the fact that Earth Assault a totally NEW powerset was added issue 16 and Electric Control a totally NEW powerset was added in Issue 18 ?
AND the Devs has said they are working on something for Doms they just were not able to get it into Issue 21.. So Doms HAVE gotten BRAND NEW stuff. They have gotten it recently.. AND they are getting it again.. |
Now for something useful - this (should warn about the llittle language at the end,) or for something a bit different (takes longer,) this (with the same language at the beginning.)
At least we know that Illusion Control isn't ready for Dominator or isn't going to happen because that's the only set left that doesn't require any new animation/graphic. It could have been a straight port and Dominator could have got one new set.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Nothing in Proliferation means, every AT should get something. In fact, the opposite is true, as some ATs could easily get every option available before other ATs, which would require additional rounds of proliferation for them to obtain all applicable sets.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
My only problem with it is that this is the 3rd major proliferation and I think every AT should get at least something. I am not sporting a huge hard-on for Illusion Control. I just think that set is "ready" to be ported because the "awesome" powers in that set are pets anyway and there is no need for new animations/graphic.
What's working for Controller should work for Dominator as well and if it sucks, it sucks. It's not like Gravity control was well designed for Dominator's need anyway, but it still has one cool power in Wormhole, just like Phantom Army will be just as cool for Dominator. Dominator can skip Propel and I am sure some will skip the invisible powers. Them not porting Illusion this time means that they are not comfortable with the current version on Dominator. And I wouldn't exactly classify Illusion as "exciting". If anything, I would guess we won't see Illusion at all (or it may be eventually a Cash Item because people want it too much). We'll see something different like Whip Assault / Crowd Control natural set. Now that's more exciting than Illusion. :P |
So no. Wrong.
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They could have just simply ported Illusion because more than half of the useful powers are just "pets". The rest doesn't need to be modified at all.
So the fact that they haven't given Dominator Illusion Control is that it's either "too good" or "too weak". It must not pass their "standard".
Which one will it be? Too good or too bad?
I am in the mind-set that the best powers in Illusion does not require domination and those pets certainly don't benefit from containment either. So if it's good enough for controller, it should be good enough for Dominator.
So, it must be "too good" with the current form of Illusion. I can't imagine what else they need to work on if they want to port Illusion to Dominator this time. There is no need to create new animation. We can already color the powers.
I mean I am sure they will be spending more time making new dark/dark for Blaster. I find it odd. They said they don't have time to even add new effects to the old powers. I actually really want Ice/Ice for Stalker.
You know what it means right? By the time Illusion and Ice Melee are ready, they will be "Cash Items" for villains. :P The more you want to request, the more they are going to be 'cash items".
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.