Discussion: The Intrepid Informer: Galaxy's Last Stand


A Man In Black

 

Posted

I love David Nakayama art too much to say something bad.
Maybe Sister Psyche should not be that surprised and she should wear the shoulder rings, but I love this comic loading screens, I cant wait to see new ones added to TFs and Trials.


 

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Originally Posted by Taiyanna View Post
The pose just makes it even more exaggerated: That costume does not say anything real about the heroine she is. It doesn't suggest mental abilities, or an 'old soul' type thing. It says sex, sex, sex, and more sex, and it's a complete embarrassment. I'm not saying that costumes can't be designed with a visual appeal in mind- even a relatively sexy one, at that- but that costume has NOTHING else to it.
While I am not a fan of her pose and really dislike her facial expression in this picture, I love her costume. First, there is nothing wrong with sexuality. Second, it seems in character to me.

She has been occasionally shown as flirty and playful. She wears that costume. She seems to like staying young and beautiful through her special ability, and her Praetorian counterpart takes that to an extreme (the Praetorians have never been the opposites of the primals, but rather versions that take certain virtues or minor quirks and extend them into vices and insanity (Manticore likes to be in control and to make plans, Chimera demands and needs it; Miss Liberty wants to be liked, Dominatrix will make you like her; BABs is a rough and tumble street fighter with a heart of gold, Marauder is a rough and tumble street fighter who suppresses his heart; Sister Psyche is a playful, vivacious matron who wants to help people, Mother is overtly sexual and knows best how to help people; etc.)


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Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
First, there is nothing wrong with sexuality.
No one is saying there is.


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Originally Posted by Moly View Post
I only read a little of this thread begause, frnakly, a lot of the things I read disgust me.

I don't need an ancient 1970s feminist notion of what a strong woman is supposed to look like informing the design of characters in my game. In the post-feminist 21st century women can display intelligence, strength and sexuality to any degree they choose to.
Everytime I hear this argument I remember Kate Beaton's brilliant deconstruction.

http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311

STRONG! FEMALE! CHARACTERS!

Don't you judge me! This bra is part of my character!

But no it really sucks that people criticize artists who just go for the easy cheesecake design. It's feminists who are the real sexists, blah blah.


 

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Originally Posted by Noxilicious View Post
But even if you think the costume is empowering or demeaning, I have a hard time seeing Sister Psyche's pose as nothing but outright objectifying. It's the kind of breasts-and-butt-out pose that, if you try doing it at home, it's unnatural and uncomfortable at best and actually painful at worst. It's a pose that serves no purpose other than to emphasise her, well, breasts and butt for the sake of emphasising it. It's certainly not an expression of Sister Psyche's sexuality, even ignoring how uncomfortable the position is, because it's pretty safe to assume that when you're terrified half-to-death by an apocalyptic meteor shower expressing your sexual autonomy is not someone's first concern.
I'll concede that the pose is...unusual. However it seems to have served its artistic purpose of drawing attention to what is going to happen in issue 21.

I'm hearing some interpretations that I strongly disagree with though. When I look at the picture, it appears to me that she was moving quicky, perhaps flying or running responding in typical heroic fashion to the sudden, firey disturbance in Galaxy City, and was suddenly dumbstruck by some scene of unimaginable horror. Hence the chest-forward, leg-up pose and expression of raw shock. I think the composition of the picture was intended to be sort of a collage, and that Sister Psyche and BAB are not literally in the same scene.

Looking at her pose and appearnce in context I truly cannot find fault with it.


 

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Originally Posted by Moly View Post
However it seems to have served its artistic purpose of drawing attention to what is going to happen in issue 21.
Breasts?


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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Breasts?
Wait...will the slider go beyond 11 after issue 21? Can a red name confirm??


 

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Originally Posted by Taiyanna View Post
She's a heroine. A member of the Freedom Phalanx. And she is wearing a costume that is designed pretty much from the ground up to force you to stare at her tits and not look away- and even then, her costume lines direct you to the tips of her breasts specifically. I'm sorry if this is coming off as overly sensitive, but it's past time that it gets changed.

The pose just makes it even more exaggerated: that costume does not say anything real about the heroine she is. It doesn't suggest mental abilities, or an 'old soul' type thing. It says sex, sex, sex, and more sex, and it's a complete embarrassment. I'm not saying that costumes can't be designed with a visual appeal in mind- even a relatively sexy one, at that- but that costume has NOTHING else to it.
I always assumed that the pattern was meant to be a kind of stylized psychedelic pattern, as a kind of play on her name and powers - plus, when you have lines on curves, it's very hard for them not to meet at some point.


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Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism View Post
Everytime I hear this argument I remember Kate Beaton's brilliant deconstruction.

http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311

STRONG! FEMALE! CHARACTERS!

Don't you judge me! This bra is part of my character!

But no it really sucks that people criticize artists who just go for the easy cheesecake design. It's feminists who are the real sexists, blah blah.
Strong Female Character Flowchart


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Nice chart. Only issue I saw off the bat is "Mom" from futurama is depicted as the exame of a "No family" villian but she has kids.


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Originally Posted by Angelxman81 View Post
I love David Nakayama art too much to say something bad.
Maybe Sister Psyche should not be that surprised and she should wear the shoulder rings, but I love this comic loading screens, I cant wait to see new ones added to TFs and Trials.
i like his art as well, actually like it quite a lot, but i still feel capable of critiquing it.

While the skin tone on BAB makes sense in light of some of the explanations given the overall effect of that combined with the angle and style of his depiction in the image makes him look quite Hispanic or Asiatic.
i still think Sister Psyche's expression is inflaterrific. *shrug*


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Posted

Oh, and another small note- if her lack of composure is because of being forced to listen to thousands and thousands of peoples fear and panic all at once, I'd think her response would be less "oh noes!" and more like... oh, I dunno... curled up in a ball screaming, or something.

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I always assumed that the pattern was meant to be a kind of stylized psychedelic pattern, as a kind of play on her name and powers - plus, when you have lines on curves, it's very hard for them not to meet at some point.
Sets of straight lines, in a regular pattern, symmetrical on both sides, representing psychedelic? Not really seeing it. And yeah, they gotta meet at some point- but they don't necessarily have to all *concentrate* onto the same (pair) of point(s). Especially if it actually were a psychedelic one, which would be, well... random. Or emanating *out* from a specific fracture point.

And for earlier: She's flirty, yes. Her outfit is not. Her outfit is the superhero version of wearing short shorts with "Juicy" written on the *** in the middle of a snowstorm. 'Flirty' doesn't even begin to cover it.


 

Posted

It bears noting that it's not just the skin tone,(though as a person of color who also has been under light, a somewhat lighter-skinend one, at that, I can attest that no amount of flash will change the visual texture of my skin the way the light in this image is supposed to be doing) but the hair texture(it's blowing in the wind like straight hair, when if he had spiky hair as a black man it'd be more like This)
I always thought his hair style was a box version of this look


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Originally Posted by Moly View Post
Wait...will the slider go beyond 11 after issue 21? Can a red name confirm??

If the pic of Sis is any indication, it now goes to OVER 9,000!!!!!ONE!!1!!



 

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Originally Posted by Taiyanna View Post
Sets of straight lines, in a regular pattern, symmetrical on both sides, representing psychedelic? Not really seeing it. And yeah, they gotta meet at some point- but they don't necessarily have to all *concentrate* onto the same (pair) of point(s). Especially if it actually were a psychedelic one, which would be, well... random. Or emanating *out* from a specific fracture point.]
I said "sylized"
Plus, the lines go to different points - like the ones on her sleeves run down to her gloves, the ones on her thighs just blend in to knees and boots, and the ones on her lower torso run towards her stomach - so it's only natural that the one son her upper torso would run towards her chest - when you're curvy, a lot of patterns end up like that, even if they weren't intended to

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And for earlier: She's flirty, yes. Her outfit is not. Her outfit is the superhero version of wearing short shorts with "Juicy" written on the *** in the middle of a snowstorm. 'Flirty' doesn't even begin to cover it.
Her outfit really isn't that skimpy - the way Swan dresses is way more impractical
Sister Psyche's outfit is similar to gym-wear, so it's quite suitable for physical activity.


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City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I said "sylized"
Plus, the lines go to different points - like the ones on her sleeves run down to her gloves, the ones on her thighs just blend in to knees and boots, and the ones on her lower torso run towards her stomach - so it's only natural that the one son her upper torso would run towards her chest - when you're curvy, a lot of patterns end up like that, even if they weren't intended to
Just saying- if it's meant to represent 'psychedelic', or anything of that nature, than a chaotic, splintered array of lines would work a lot better, and *wouldn't* end up like that. As they are, they come off extremely indicative of order, more than anything else. A structured framework.


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Her outfit really isn't that skimpy - the way Swan dresses is way more impractical
Sister Psyche's outfit is similar to gym-wear, so it's quite suitable for physical activity.
Never claimed it was impractical to do physical activity in- it's the design, not the amount of skin. An outfit doesn't have to show a lot of skin to be hyper-sexualized; Power Girl, for instance, shows less skin than a *lot* of other comic characters, but there's no denying that she's built ground up to be the "sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex" superheroine.

And yeah, Swan's is pretty bad. But she at least gets a small bit of justification in her costume being very definitively swan-ish. Especially in official artwork- the in-game outfit is really bad because the white skintight stuff in-game comes off as nearly see-through.


 

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Now here's the thing: We cannot be detached from these things because they affect us on a daily basis. The world's not a perfect place, we've come a long way, but all the big -isms still exist. When we look at this picture, we don't just see one instance of a woman being sxualised simply because he's a woman or a person of colour's skin being white-washed because they're a person of colour. We see all the other instances of people being Othered simply for their differences, we see this happening over and over and over and over and over and over. Some of us are so discouraged they cannot muster up the courage to speak up anymore. Some of us are so fed up with this, we've internalised so much sadness and anger over this, that yes, we are emotional. Then we see people who don't bat an eye-lash about these things still happening, about how normal this became that we wonder if we can even make a difference.

And before that comes up again, no, I'm not accusing David Nakayama of wanting to subjugate women and people of colour. Very few people actively, purposefully stick with the big -isms. It's some of these ideas are just so deeply ingrained into us that we don't percieve them as these big -isms. They became totally normal for us and we don't see where the problem is. They're ideas we literally grew up with, that were with us since we were born. Me? A couple of months ago I thought the R-word was awesome for just casually dismissing people and things I didn't like until one day I stumbled upon an intellectually-disabled-rights activist. I started researching their plight, I reflected on all the ways I've Othered and discriminated them without even knowing.

That's what I hope will happen when I speak up. That people just take a second to reflect on themselves. Just think for a moment. If people did that, I'd be happy. Hell, I'd be elated!


 

Posted

*has to make this random gameplay-story integration joke*

You know, as stated, it's less the artwork in the end I suppose and more that Sister Psyche's costume baffled me for the climate she was in.*
But I suppose as a psychic she can easily block out weather issues, but it must suck on teaming that she needs to throw up Personal Force Field every so often just to keep warm. (Not to mention piss off her teammates)

*thinking about it, BABs and other Freedom Phalanx or Vindicator members *cough*SWAN*cough* are also pretty big offenders of being dressed a bit poorly for New England climate.


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Posted

I've gotta agree with the above poster. I can't honestly see anything wrong with this artistic interpretation of the cataclysmic event that is taking place in Galaxy City. Sister Psyche is overwhelmed with shock, and Back Alley Brawler is filled with rage, all while witness to a massive explosion that emits.....bright light.


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Love it!


 

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And damn you Andy New Ocho, i just looked out the window. . . . thinking the doorbell went off


 

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
Sister Psyche's expression is one of both shock and fear, which we consider an appropriate reaction to an apocalyptic storm of death and destruction hurtling at her from above. As a member of the Freedom Phalanx, nothing short of a world threatening event could evoke this kind of reaction from her.

The above being said, we have been paying attention to your thoughts. We'll be making some very subtle adjustments to the image which address these concerns while still preserving its artistic integrity.
Really? Sorry, I have to call bull on this one. Why doesn't BAB have the same look of "both shock and fear" then? Why not make BABs look like a scared little blowup doll? Because he's a guy and guys have to look strong even in the face of "a world threatening event" but it's okay to make women look scared and weak because, you know, they're girls.

I'm really looking forward to COH:Freedom but, that said, I think you guys dropped the ball on this one.

Disappointed,

-Buxley



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Originally Posted by Taiyanna View Post
Her outfit is the superhero version of wearing short shorts with "Juicy" written on the *** in the middle of a snowstorm. 'Flirty' doesn't even begin to cover it.
Rebuttal:




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Posted

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Originally Posted by Taiyanna View Post
Just saying- if it's meant to represent 'psychedelic', or anything of that nature, than a chaotic, splintered array of lines would work a lot better, and *wouldn't* end up like that. As they are, they come off extremely indicative of order, more than anything else. A structured framework.
Psychedelic doesn't always mean chaotic and random - it can also mean very structured patterns - just wacky ones
Also, with a sphere or half sphere, it's very hard to avoid some kind of meeting point on it if you have a pattern on it - light and shade create natural highlights on curved surfaces.

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Never claimed it was impractical to do physical activity in- it's the design, not the amount of skin. An outfit doesn't have to show a lot of skin to be hyper-sexualized; Power Girl, for instance, shows less skin than a *lot* of other comic characters, but there's no denying that she's built ground up to be the "sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex" superheroine.
She wasn't really designed that way at first - she was just a female Superman.


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