Discussion: The Intrepid Informer: Galaxy's Last Stand


A Man In Black

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright View Post
Sort-of sad, that. To be so used to that kind of thing that it doesn't even ping as odd.
That's why, when respectfully done, discussions about the various "-isms" are needed. A lot of stuff is far more ingrained than it should be and it has been shown to be harmful. As said, it's doubtful any of this was deliberate though that may actually be far worse. I'll even point to myself. Psyche's face is really offputting but I didn't even mentally register her actual pose at first. We'll see if the image remains as is or if it gets adjusted.


 

Posted

What if...

That's not "Back Alley Brawler?" What if that's the never seen, or heard of, son of BaBs? What if BaBs was killed during the destruction of Galaxy?

Or, what if they decided to make some changes to him purely because they wanted to make him look as bad-a$$ as Marauder?

Either way, the changes to BaBs really brought out the worst in people. I've never been more ashamed to see players throw the race card because of a videogame character is shown "lighter" because of explosions all around. Watch a war movie. Watch a flash grenade go off. It's called dramatic lighting.


pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:

 

Posted

Wow, I think some people is overreacting a bit...


 

Posted

sounds fun


 

Posted

Since I don't think I've already said it, I will say that the overall idea sounds amazing, though I do worry about fast loaders, I mean if this is supposed to take place within loading times, and it does seem a clever work around the pain cutscenes, and the artwork is good, though it does feel strange compared to David's previous artwork (though all that i had seen previously were concept art, for which a good difference may occur), and to be frank, my problems with Sister Psyche's outfit predate this by a long stretch.
It's just the fact that she's dressed in straps and lace IN NEW ENGLAND!

Though BAB, I must say just looks meme worthy, not helped that he looks like one of the guys in the famous Gaijin Four Koma.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Though BAB, I must say just looks meme worthy
Just Photoshop various items of food or other vaguley edible things between his hands, and you'll have the hungry BAB meme


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander View Post
Or, what if they decided to make some changes to him purely because they wanted to make him look as bad-a$$ as Marauder?
Badass Maruader is quite clearly black - and he pities the fool who thinks otherwise


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

This is completely funny, I guess Mad forum posters will be mad.... XD Heck you could put a picture of a shivan doing the funky chicken with LR and people would be bi***ing about how LR would never dance! XD

@OP:

Looking good! Long live the "Disrespected" Female Heroines!

( Think I just go a new idea for a female heroine... )


 

Posted

As a person who is proud of being as unbiased as I can be in the media-swamped America, I stared at this picture for a full half-minute and here's what I got:

1) SP's face shows too much shock. For someone who's seen what she's seen a tad less might be better.

2) She has a nice rack. A bit too big for someone who regularly works out but then I'm a proportions guy with a GF who works out.

3) BAB got some COOL shades!

4) LOTS of action in the background. Heroes flying, fighting, burning death from the skies and all that.

5) BAB is really mad at someone.

6) I really wanna see more of the comic strip below. I mean REALLY. As my handle states, I LOVE comics, especially good comics. Especially good origin story comics.

7) Man I would NOT wanna get hit with those metal knucks!

8) Why is SP always the one who gets surprised or knocked down/out in pictures and video? The big vid with States and LR shows her bashed against a wall. I wanna see one where SHE gets to clobber someone and stay on her feet for a change.

9) SP has a nice rack.

10) Man do I wanna see THIS! If their ad guys were trying to get my attention they did it.


The closest thing that I got to sexist were 2, 8 and 9. Nowhere in my brain did I get to 'Wow...O face!' or 'His skin seems lighter. Shades of Michael Jackson?'

If a test of color pallettes reveals that his skin is lighter guess what? Mistakes happen. If the artist was told 'I want her to look shocked. As in 'WTF is going on it's the end of the world!' then that's what he drew.

Jeez people...not everything in the world is a conspiracy. It's a picture...enjoy it for what it is.


"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
It's just the fact that she's dressed in straps and lace IN NEW ENGLAND!
Paragon City is in New England?
Huh. You wouldn't know it from the weather, geography, architecture or people.

Sure you're not confused with Port Oakes?




.


 

Posted

I got a question about the destruction of Galaxy City, will Paco Sanchez be moved or will the Earn a Cape mission from the city rep be altered so you don't have to talk to him any more?


 

Posted

what kind of game did I sign up for when in a thread about a change in the game is here and all anyone can talk about is hoe light skinned a picture is?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelxman81 View Post
Wow, I think some people is overreacting a bit...
Actually Noxolicious has a point. Ever seen variations of Marvel's Storm character? There are versions over the years that you couldn't tell she was of African descent at all (whether that's Egyptian, Nigerian, etc as the back story changes from time to time).I

Its a bit of a sensitive subject as perhaps you may not have noticed but there are fairly few heroes of color and of those, most are replicas of original Caucasian heroes (can you say Mr. Terrific, War Machine, GL John Stewart, Steel, Mach IV from the Thunderbolts being black and then lo and behold, abner jenkins found a way to be white again???etc..).

I think why it made such a big deal is that after 7 years in COH, and feeling such an accepting environment in terms of the NPCs that are used (heck, look at the prominence and originality displayed by using Marauder and his girlfriend in Praetoria's GR) that this came as more of a shock. So in the past, Paragon has demonstrated above most other media, that willingness to paint an inclusive landscape so again, this took us a bit by surprise.

Maybe its a mistake, maybe a fluke, but based on what I outlined above, I don't think you have the awareness to state that someone is over reacting, with all due respect.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathSentry View Post
Actually Noxolicious has a point. Ever seen variations of Marvel's Storm character? There are versions over the years that you couldn't tell she was of African descent at all (whether that's Egyptian, Nigerian, etc as the back story changes from time to time).I

Its a bit of a sensitive subject as perhaps you may not have noticed but there are fairly few heroes of color and of those, most are replicas of original Caucasian heroes (can you say Mr. Terrific, War Machine, GL John Stewart, Steel, Mach IV from the Thunderbolts being black and then lo and behold, abner jenkins found a way to be white again???etc..).

I think why it made such a big deal is that after 7 years in COH, and feeling such an accepting environment in terms of the NPCs that are used (heck, look at the prominence and originality displayed by using Marauder and his girlfriend in Praetoria's GR) that this came as more of a shock. So in the past, Paragon has demonstrated above most other media, that willingness to paint an inclusive landscape so again, this took us a bit by surprise.

Maybe its a mistake, maybe a fluke, but based on what I outlined above, I don't think you have the awareness to state that someone is over reacting, with all due respect.
Holy crap did you never think it just looked cool? why does race have to enter anything?


I must be old cause I frankly find it disturbing so many are hooked on a stupid skin tone.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany144 View Post
Holy crap did you never think it just looked cool?
Pretty sure a lot of us think the picture itself is cool. It's just that elements of it have a very uncomfortable vibe, especially given such things happen in real life like the example with Beyonce.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Paragon City is in New England?
Huh. You wouldn't know it from the weather, geography, architecture or people.

Sure you're not confused with Port Oakes?

Port Oakes is, at the most, just 50 miles south latitudinally of Paragon City. They should be having the same relative climatic activity, although, you can fudge a little if you have the Gulf Stream passing by the Rogue Isles (which it shouldn't... it's much further out in the Atlantic).


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Posted

I find it amazing how this thread gone from 'Hey, look at some new stuff' to 'OMG RAGE!!!'
And while I usually avoid posting here, I feel I just have to say something (because you know, so many other people have to give their opinion like its the only possible right way to see things...)

Here's a little something that seems to have been overlooked here. This is a picture done in a comic-art style. If you study anything at all about comics, you know that /everything/ is exaggerated.
Even before this picture, Back Alley Brawler exemplified this concept in spades.
He's friggen huge, even by CoH standards. The guy makes Andrei the Giant look small, for crying out loud. But, that is exactly what comic-book art is supposed to do. Same with lighting and color effects. Sure, in real life, his skin-tone would likely not be so lightened because of a nearby light source (Though, this could be argued.) But again, this is comic book art. The light effects are exaggerated to make sure the person looking at the picture realizes, that he's probably surrounded by intense fire, or maybe he and SP are facing down some terrible, monstrous Shivan that just erupted from the ground behind the camera (hence why we can't see it. And those things are supposed to glow, after all.) Or maybe they are looking at a burning building that is about to collapse, and they know there are people still in it, thus the expressions on their faces (Which again, is exaggerated.)
The expression on Sister Psyche, along with her posture. Again, exaggerated to make sure that anyone who looks at that picture knows without a shadow of a doubt that she's shocked and maybe even terrified in that one moment of time. Asteroids are falling from the sky. An entire area of the city looks like it has been destroyed (from what we can tell from the picture, anyway.) God only knows how many people are dead, dying or trapped. And as one of the premier psychics of the world, she's very likely experiencing all of that at once. Combine this with some of the possibilities of what they might be looking at. I don't care if you 18, 80, or 800 years old. Unless you are ultra-jaded about life (which is not the impression that SP gives me) then you are going to be shocked, surprised and maybe even a bit scared and terrified.
If there is anything that could possibly be pointed out as bad in this picture (personal preferences for art aside) it could be the proportion of SP's *ahem* assets... Sure, it could be argued that they draw unneeded attention, and I will admit, they could have been drawn differently. But I am not going to bash an artist and call his work sexist because of it.
I like the picture. I like the concept. I like how it came out. If you don't like it, then come up with something better and draw it. I bet a lot of you would find that it's not as easy as you think.

*gets off her soap box and puts her sunglasses on*
There. It's said. Let the flaming and hatred commence.


"The part of me that is leaving... is going to miss the part of me that is staying..."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaoGal View Post
I find it amazing how this thread gone from 'Hey, look at some new stuff' to 'OMG RAGE!!!'
And I find it amazing that honest critique, including people saying "Hmm, this looks disturbingly sexist/etc" is somehow conflated with OMG RAGE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaoGal View Post
And while I usually avoid posting here, I feel I just have to say something (because you know, so many other people have to give their opinion like its the only possible right way to see things...)
(Citation needed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaoGal View Post
Here's a little something that seems to have been overlooked here. This is a picture done in a comic-art style. If you study anything at all about comics, you know that /everything/ is exaggerated.
Even before this picture, Back Alley Brawler exemplified this concept in spades.
He's friggen huge, even by CoH standards. The guy makes Andrei the Giant look small, for crying out loud. But, that is exactly what comic-book art is supposed to do. Same with lighting and color effects. Sure, in real life, his skin-tone would likely not be so lightened because of a nearby light source (Though, this could be argued.) But again, this is comic book art. The light effects are exaggerated to make sure the person looking at the picture realizes, that he's probably surrounded by intense fire, or maybe he and SP are facing down some terrible, monstrous Shivan that just erupted from the ground behind the camera (hence why we can't see it. And those things are supposed to glow, after all.) Or maybe they are looking at a burning building that is about to collapse, and they know there are people still in it, thus the expressions on their faces (Which again, is exaggerated.)
The expression on Sister Psyche, along with her posture. Again, exaggerated to make sure that anyone who looks at that picture knows without a shadow of a doubt that she's shocked and maybe even terrified in that one moment of time. Asteroids are falling from the sky. An entire area of the city looks like it has been destroyed (from what we can tell from the picture, anyway.) God only knows how many people are dead, dying or trapped. And as one of the premier psychics of the world, she's very likely experiencing all of that at once. Combine this with some of the possibilities of what they might be looking at. I don't care if you 18, 80, or 800 years old. Unless you are ultra-jaded about life (which is not the impression that SP gives me) then you are going to be shocked, surprised and maybe even a bit scared and terrified.
If there is anything that could possibly be pointed out as bad in this picture (personal preferences for art aside) it could be the proportion of SP's *ahem* assets... Sure, it could be argued that they draw unneeded attention, and I will admit, they could have been drawn differently. But I am not going to bash an artist and call his work sexist because of it.
Does BAB's skin tone reflect what bright light - especially red-colored light as from a fire or explosion - look like on dark-colored skin? Is the tone of his hair, costume and gear similarly pale-shifted to suggest he is being bathed in actinic light that might wash out his skin tone?
BAB looks causasian in this picture - according to lots of people looking at it.
He's not.
That's either an technical mistake (which I would imagine the artist would like to be informed of), or it is a deliberate altering of BAB's apparent ethnic background, which the players would like an explaination for.

In terms of SP's expression, it looks less over-the-top and more asanine. This appears very much out-of-character for her, and so - once again - technical error or character alteration?
More to the point, let's assume that her expression is fully justified - she truly is that horrified/angered/paniced... do you pose like that when you're frightened? I'm quite serious - cover her face and look at her pose... what about that suggests fright or horror?
Or determination or strength or heroism, for that matter?
The fact that poses that emphasize outthrust breasts and hips are considered action poses for female comic book characters is sexist - deeply sexist. If you don't think so, just picture BAB in that same pose. If we are making the assumption that a character specifically uses her eye-candy appeal as part of her operational toolkit (e.g.: Catwoman, Poison Ivy), that's one thing. Again, is the part of SP's established character?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaoGal View Post
I like the picture. I like the concept. I like how it came out. If you don't like it, then come up with something better and draw it. I bet a lot of you would find that it's not as easy as you think.
*sigh*
I hate this argument. Being able to match an effort is not a reasonable gate for being critical of that effort. if a gymnast falls off of their equipment during their routine, I don't have to be a gymnast to recognize the error. if I'm really unfamiliar with the subject, I might ask "Did you mean to do that?". And that's what some people ehre a re doing: "Did you mean to make BABs look white? Did you mean to make SP look like a posable sex doll?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaoGal View Post
*gets off her soap box and puts her sunglasses on*
There. It's said. Let the flaming and hatred commence.
Did it maybe occur to you that feeling that you should end a post like this might just suggest you should review it for content?
Unless, of course, you find the typical opinion expressed on the boards to be worthless - in which case I would have to ask why you bother posting...


"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi

Still CoHzy after all these years...

 

Posted

Thanks for your feedback regarding the new loading screens. We are extremely excited about these panels you've been shown and are eagerly anticipating being able to show you the rest of the comic when Issue 21 launches. I have been speaking with Noble Savage, El Topo and Second Measure regarding some of your concerns, and we certainly understand some of the viewpoints being expressed in this thread.

A few things we can clarify really quickly:

  • Back Alley Brawler is being illuminated by a gigantic fiery meteor of doom, which at it's position is akin to being a light source as bright as the sun. As such the lighting has a bit of a bright orange hue to it, which has been saturated to an extent. There's definitely no intent of changing skin tone.
  • Sister Psyche's expression is one of both shock and fear, which we consider an appropriate reaction to an apocalyptic storm of death and destruction hurtling at her from above. As a member of the Freedom Phalanx, nothing short of a world threatening event could evoke this kind of reaction from her.

The above being said, we have been paying attention to your thoughts. We'll be making some very subtle adjustments to the image which address these concerns while still preserving its artistic integrity.

We're very excited to be exploring this new artistic direction with City of Heroes Freedom. This style of comic book is something that's considered new and cutting edge to many comic book enthusiasts and we're stoked to be leading the way among Super Heroic MMO's in evolving our style to embrace it.


Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios

 

Posted

Yikes my post was long.

My apologies.


"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi

Still CoHzy after all these years...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post


The above being said, we have been paying attention to your thoughts. We'll be making some very subtle adjustments to the image which address these concerns while still preserving its artistic integrity.
Sounds good, thank you


Always remember, we were Heroes.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
Thanks for your feedback regarding the new loading screens. We are extremely excited about these panels you've been shown and are eagerly anticipating being able to show you the rest of the comic when Issue 21 launches. I have been speaking with Noble Savage, El Topo and Second Measure regarding some of your concerns, and we certainly understand some of the viewpoints being expressed in this thread.

A few things we can clarify really quickly:

(snip)

The above being said, we have been paying attention to your thoughts. We'll be making some very subtle adjustments to the image which address these concerns while still preserving its artistic integrity.

We're very excited to be exploring this new artistic direction with City of Heroes Freedom. This style of comic book is something that's considered new and cutting edge to many comic book enthusiasts and we're stoked to be leading the way among Super Heroic MMO's in evolving our style to embrace it.
And this is why we keep coming back to this awesome game, year after year - the Devs actually do listen when we voice concerns, even when the concerns are... odd.

Back on topic, let me say I am hugely excited about both the comic-panel splash screen concept, and the new game intro mechanic.
Can't wait to see what's up next!


"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi

Still CoHzy after all these years...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
  • Back Alley Brawler is being illuminated by a gigantic fiery meteor of doom, which at it's position is akin to being a light source as bright as the sun. As such the lighting has a bit of a bright orange hue to it, which has been saturated to an extent. There's definitely no intent of changing skin tone.
At how many lux does dark skin appear Caucasion without similarly washing out all the other colors it illuminates or illuminating all those shadowed parts facing in the same direction of the light? It's got to be *brighter* that the sun, because people of African descent don't look Caucasion outdoors at noontime.

At how many lux do dreadlocks become undone?

At how many lux do panels of cloth burn away leaving just the seams?

Is this a wizard's fireball perhaps?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA View Post
The fact that poses that emphasize outthrust breasts and hips are considered action poses for female comic book characters is sexist - deeply sexist. If you don't think so, just picture BAB in that same pose. If we are making the assumption that a character specifically uses her eye-candy appeal as part of her operational toolkit (e.g.: Catwoman, Poison Ivy), that's one thing. Again, is the part of SP's established character?
Sister Psyche: "Brawler! Calm down! I'll take care of it... I'm going to seduce that meteroite!"


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