Let's Discuss: Comprehensive PB Proposal

I rather feel like a change to Cosmic Balance that is similar to Vigilance would be best. CB is quite good (other than for mez protection) on teams, so getting some kind of similar benefit while solo or teamed with just one or two teammates would be nice.

Really the only problem that I have with CB is that is a proximity buff which I think is complete BS. if/when they change it, i don't see why it can't be just people on the team and not people on the team AND within a whatever " radius. i'm on bored with a pseudo domination change, but if they do leave in the same mechanic just with a different buff (recharge or defense instead of damage or whatever) then i'd really like to see it not have the proximity limit on it.

The problem I have with increasing damage buff instead of base is that you get significantly less than your teammates do from outside buffs. It won't take many buffs to eclipse (no pun intended) your damage on a team and make you, again, one of the lowest dps'ers on the team.

If they doubled the base damage and kept CB just the way it is, with a full team of people buffing your damage (so 140% buff to damage), the top pb chain would do about 341 dps, after accounting for build up and tohit cap. That's about 30 dps higher than the top scrapper dps (before involving reactive, etc). Obviously they don't need to double the base dps, but the current gap between pb's and dps'ers is really tremendous, even fully buffed.

I did, once, suggest that the Forms essentially become like the Leadership toggles, leveraging the Human-form powers, but I got shot-down with a vengeance by another player who was using the extra power-slots to stack up Set IOs and bonuses. Besides, doing this would destroy several popular Kheldian form-switch maneuvers, like the 'Double-Flare' and the 'Double-Mire' and the 'Double-Heal'. Also, we would lose the Taunt and Teleport powers of the Dwarf-form. Those have no analogues in Human-form and would require more power-slots to acquire.

One thing that I would like to see Dwarfs get, is another attack - it's nigh impossible to build a decent melee-attack-chain with only two powers and an AoE. It works for Nova because the Cone can be used with a single target and, so, do duty as a third single target attack. Perhaps Dwarf could get something similar to 'Jacob's Ladder' from Electric?

Or is the Taunt supposed to take the place of an attack? Really, it's only situationally useful.

For these reasons, I've been persuaded that the forms should retain their unique powers, despite all of the slot-crunching problems that come with them.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Re: the concern about being able to gimp yourself by taking Dwarf and not taking melee attacks (for instance): I'd argue that the current system requires us to be gimped, by making Dwarf powers all but useless for many many levels until we can finally afford the slots for all of them. And ya know, even then, we have major slot crunch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireheart I did, once, suggest that the Forms essentially become like the Leadership toggles, leveraging the Human-form powers, but I got shot-down with a vengeance by another player who was using the extra power-slots to stack up Set IOs and bonuses. Besides, doing this would destroy several popular Kheldian form-switch maneuvers, like the 'Double-Flare' and the 'Double-Mire' and the 'Double-Heal'. Also, we would lose the Taunt and Teleport powers of the Dwarf-form. Those have no analogues in Human-form and would require more power-slots to acquire.

Fun tricks are good and all, but I'd prefer my Dwarf form to be useable when I take it, not ten levels later and at such a huge slot expense. And I don't have much sympathy for people who only want the powers for set mules, I have to say

The extra powers for Dwarf can be put in 'for free' as they are now. Not exactly a biggy there.

Possible compromise: The flares, mires, and heals could be left separate, but the single-target attacks and the Nova's nukes could be merged with the human form. It'd be nice to have useful attacks in both human and Kheldian forms without gimping ourselves.

Yes, this would mess with people using both sets of ST/AoEs for IO slotting, but I honestly have trouble seeing how they manage it and still have their core powers decently slotted.

...Or, actually, oreso seemed to say something that might leave the best of both camps. Have human powers usable in forms, but leave the form powers as they are. However, that might cause odd balance questions with the doubling of available attack powers in forms. Getting seamless attack chains would become trival. I do think it's worthwhile as a starting place for discussion though.

Hm. Much to discuss, I think. And, honestly, I don't play a PB right now. I play a WS (though I created mine for concept rather than power level reasons). I can say that a fair number of the changes (KD/KU Solar Flare, Seeker tweaks, etc.) proposed here would make PBs more attractive to me. And it might be worth categorizing the suggestions separately into PB-specific things (Solar Flare, Seekers fix, things like that) and changes for Kheldians in general (shift animation time reduction, slotting changes, etc.). Warshades really don't seem to have a lot wrong with them that isn't wrong with Kheldians as a whole anyway, so there's probably not any need for Warshade-specific fixes (other than the oddity of their Cosmic Balance giving them more of what the team already has, and a PB thread isn't really the place for discussion on that).

As for the dwarf mez things, actually I think there might be a way to do this: give the mez protection portition a longer duration but keep it non-stacking. Just look at how the stealth IO procs work for example. Mez protection for, say, 30 seconds or so would let us do some things in other forms at least without necessarily making us completely invulnerable to mezzes. This number could be tweaked - 20 seconds might be a more suitable duration.

I like the idea of frontloaded Cosmic Balance.

Shorter shift times would be great. I haven't really seen much disagreement about this point. The formshifts are pretty dramatic and cool looking, but there're still noticeable pauses in them. And even without that, I think they could easily be shaved down to a second or possibly less and still keep a lot of visual impact.

I really dont think that the forms need a total rework, which is what these last few ideas are basically. The forms work great as they are its just a small change to the inherent we should focus on. Maybe its just me but I like how peacebringers "work" and dont want big changes, just a few small changes that can make a big difference.

It's worth noting that most mez protection powers as far as I'm aware don't allow you to activate them while you're mezzed. Then again, most of them don't restrict your power usage. But yeah, some mez resistance might be nice.

And, yeah, those're some pretty major revamps to the forms. Which's why I'm not really going to push for them. I was mostly just thinking about the possibilities of what'd been said.

off topic: kinda disappointed that they didn't mention anything in the i21 announcement. I know that it hasn't even hit yet and theres still a possibility but one would think that something like that would be in there and be a selling point.

feelsbadman.jpg

Well, this was in a thread Posi replied to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelenar
Wait, F2P players only get 8 archetypes? What don't they get access to?

Masterminds and Controllers (and HEATs and VEATs). They can purchase these separately, or become a VIP Subscriber and get access to all AT's.

So... hopefully that means they'll treat Kheldians a little better in the future, if that is going to be a dividing line between F2P and VIP. We'll see, though, like I said in my other post.

Just had an interesting idea for Group Energy Flight. Give it a foe-affecting aura a la Choking Cloud, with a low mag hold. Enemies caught by the hold would have the same animation as players experience from the green beam in the keyes trial (lifting off the ground, flailing arms and legs). This hold could stack with I-Strike on a single target, and otherwise just affect occasional minions like Choking Cloud. Or, switch the effects of I-Strike and Pulsar so the latter could stack with Group Energy Flight for a more solid AoE hold. Whatcha think?

Honestly most of the discussed changes to solely benefit PBs don't interest me all that much, except for the one about making Group Flight actually useful. Nor can I ever remember being on a team with a Warshade and feeling outmatched. I would like for all Kheldians to have the ability to use some human form powers even in dwarf or nova form (possibly including one or two shields) similar to the way blasters can use their basic attacks even when mezzed. It also might be neat to use the first two weakest nova attacks while in dwarf form and vice versa (novas look like they could deliver a nasty tail slap!). That would make Kheldians truly epic imho.

I think one simple change might go a long way to making PBs more viable. Warshades get Dark Extraction, and the resulting pets are the main reason WS damage is higher than PBs.

I would change Photon Seekers (which despite many attempts to fix them, have never worked exactly as they are described) and make them aggro managers, similar to Phantom Army. Give them an increased threat level or Taunt aura, and a couple of control/damage powers like Stuns or Holds to match the PB character's powers.

Making the Seekers more like PA or Dark Servant would increase the effectiveness of a PB solo as well as help a team control groups. And PBs would no longer have to find workarounds for a power that doesn't do what it says in the description.

There is precedent for changing pets without violating the Cottage Rule, Dark Servant got a makeover several issues ago, and a few issues ago Controller pets were made more permanent.