What I want:
- Incandescence: Add 200% RESISTANCE to Hold, Immobilize, Sleep, Disorient
- Proton Scatter: Replace current animation with Energy Torrent's animation
- Photon Seekers: Replace power with a version of the MM's Hell on Earth targeted on Peacebringer
- Solar Flare: Reduce KB magnitude to .9 from 4.1.
- Light Form: Reduce recharge to 360 seconds; reduce duration to 90 seconds; reduce Sm, Le, Eng, Neg resistance to Scale 3; Fire, Cold, Toxic resistance to Scale 1.5, Remove -recovery, -end at termination
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Personally I'd pike to see some animation times tweaked specifically for human powers. Every attack chain I come up with just feels very slow and clunky. A lightform change to a more sow like power. And assuming the inherent stays the same, all shields given a defense component. And mez prot
But in the bigger scheme Of things, I'd like to see an overhaul of how forms are handled. Either the activations brought way down and preferably made uninterruptible. And have all toggles supress while in forms.
That's just some stuff off the top of my head during a lunch break so I'll probably edit and add some stuff later
EDIT: like right now 
. I know this is a pb thread but I'd really like to see fluffehs changed so that they functions like volt sentinel in that it can't be targeted and all aggro comes to you.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
Let's talk about Light Form first since it's come up here and in several other threads. I'm not a big fan myself, particularly because of the crash. Making it more like Strength of Will probably violates the Cottage Rule (
) and may be a bit too far reaching for real consideration by the powers team. I'd say we'd be better off playing with the numbers instead.
I like Geko's suggestion about reducing Recharge and duration to make it a bit more accessible. Have it take half your total End and reduce your Recovery by something like 50%. That way there's still a penalty but you're not just plain screwed when the power ends.
Wanna play a Peacebringer? Don't believe the hype. Check out my guide and get the real truth:
PEACEBRINGERS SUCK!!! (Now fully up to date for i21+
)
-Increase base damage, lower bonus damage from inherent slightly (both pb's and ws's)
-Turn the toggle shields into moderate typed defense versions, keeping a minor resistance element, and a minor mez protection in each shield (like mag 3 hold in Shining, mag 3 stun in Quantum, mag 3 immob/sleep in Thermal); do this for both pb's and ws's, as the shields would then stack better with the tier 9 and inherent instead of becoming totally useless in many situations
-Turn Build Up into Astral Rage (rage clone), because rage is just better and would interract with form shifting much better
-Fix photon seekers in whatever way Smiling Joe proposes
-Turn all kb powers to mag .67, and thus knockdown; this seems only fair, because any who wish to still do knocback can slot a kb enhancer, but currently we can't slot a -kb in them
-Reduce animations on form shifts and pulsar
-Turn Group Energy Flight into Group Combat Flight, add minor defense to all and an 8' pbaoe minor damage aura to the PB (ws's get a damage aura, why not pb's)
None of that would be overpowering, but all of it would make the play experience exponentially better.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
For me, the most important things:
-Change Solar Flare KB into KD (please for the love of god Black Scorpion do this!!!)
-Make Pulsar's stun a little bit more consistent. Proposal: Mag 2 Stun with the current duration, and then an additional Mag stun that lasts half the base duration. You can thus consistently hold Lieutenants for a little while, while not completely invalidating Controllers.
-Change Photon Seekers in some way (probably whatever Smiling Joe suggests).
-Give Light Form the SoW treatment. As nice as the theoretical invulnerability is, it doesn't really benefit the PB to have this long-duration thing with a ridiculously long cooldown, since its greatest benefit is for short-duration bursts where you need the extra control protection or some additional resistance.
-Give White Dwarf (and Dark Dwarf by extension) some sort of Taunt aura.
-Reduce shifting animation times to make them more seamless.
-Suppress, rather than turn off, Human-form toggles when shifting.
Question on toggle suppression in forms: Is this about convenience, survivability when down shifting or both? I don't use the human shields so I'm curious.
Wanna play a Peacebringer? Don't believe the hype. Check out my guide and get the real truth:
PEACEBRINGERS SUCK!!! (Now fully up to date for i21+
)
Quote:
Both. It's a PITA to retoggle every time you come back to Human, but if that were all it was I could probably deal. |
Originally Posted by Timeshadow
Question on toggle suppression in forms: Is this about convenience, survivability when down shifting or both? I don't use the human shields so I'm curious.
|
The fact is though that Human form's defenses are balanced around the assumption that you are running your toggles all the time, just like Scrapper/Brute/Tanker defenses assume that they run their toggles all the time - and they do, since there's no reason to turn them off once they're up. But Kheldians are also assumed to be shapeshifting and are inadvertently punished with substandard survivability every time they shift back to human until those toggles go up again. It's a problem that comes from applying a Sc/Br/Ta-esque toggle-based defensive suite to an AT that is designed to operate differently from any of those other ATs. Square peg, round hole. No great surprise that it causes issues.
Quote:
The shifting has never been as smooth as it should be for a shifting class. We're not allowed to reference other games, but when it works in other games, it's smooth and doesn't take forever to do. The skill involved in knowing when to switch and making the appropriate switch is the extra hoop those characters need to make to work: there isn't a need to punish with the long shifting we have in this game.|
Originally Posted by teflonshugenja
Both. It's a PITA to retoggle every time you come back to Human, but if that were all it was I could probably deal.
The fact is though that Human form's defenses are balanced around the assumption that you are running your toggles all the time, just like Scrapper/Brute/Tanker defenses assume that they run their toggles all the time - and they do, since there's no reason to turn them off once they're up. But Kheldians are also assumed to be shapeshifting and are inadvertently punished with substandard survivability every time they shift back to human until those toggles go up again. It's a problem that comes from applying a Sc/Br/Ta-esque toggle-based defensive suite to an AT that is designed to operate differently from any of those other ATs. Square peg, round hole. No great surprise that it causes issues. |
The shield system is another thing that makes this more difficult, as you note. I rarely bother with my shields on my tri-form, unless I'm going to be running in human for a long period of time (even though it means he's weaker at the time). Not losing toggles when you are mezzed was an extremely popular change among players, and for good reason. Toggle loss when switching forms is still a big pain in the butt.
I still wish the original dev team had put in the effort needed to make Kheldians good through and through. They had some great ideas and designs, surrounded by some terrible ones that are still holding the AT back.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
-=Mechanics=-
-Some solo effect from my inherent.
-Pulsar or Incandescent strike turned into the other's mez type. Stun or hold on both, not one of each like it is now.
-Knockback becomes knockdown or knockup from human form attacks.
-Solar Flare and White Dwarf Flare useable while in the air.
-Build Up becomes something more formshifting friendly, be it a smaller boost over a longer duration like a rage clone, or what have you.
-Taunt Aura for Dwarf form.
-Human Shields become defense rather than Resists
-Human form mez prot.
-Something done with Group Energy Flight...Im still of the mind to remove it, replace it, and give it to PB's at 30 for free...WS's can get group teleport at that level too. Id settle for it gaining some form of useful buff on its own though.
-Quantum Flight's end cost reduced.
-Photon seekers...more uptime out of it. Plenty of suggested ideas for this, Im not too picky on which gets taken, though Im fond of the "hell on earth" suggestion too.
-General Damage Adjustments to keep us in tune with the current balancing philosophy...in particular our early blasts need a once over. They're almost all clones from somewhere, unfortunately they're clones of lower tier blasts, adjusting the damage to give us better progression (Tier 1->Tier 2->Tier 3 instead of Tier 1->Tier 1->Tier 2). Also consider the dominator treatment, of boosting end cost and recharge for higher damage.
That's what I would want out of any serious attempt at PB fixes. I'd not say no to any other ideas folks have had, but these are what I feel are the major problems. You hit these, and I think most of the "wonkyness" and the "PB's suck" attitude will be dealt with. Though with all these improvements, we may have other, older problems rear their ugly heads...like not enough slots to put in all these vastly improved abilities. =P
-=Aesthetic=-
-Custom PB/WS characters in Architect, if you can make my doppleganger, you can let me make custom PB/WS characters.
-Alternate Animations in the Tailor (Alot of the abilities we got clones from already have these, I want my dwarf to punch the ground instead of foot stomp...hell I want my human form to punch the ground instead of footstomp...)
-Kheld Sash Costume Piece
-Kheld Eyeglow Aura
These are things I feel would help go a long way in improving the general good will of those of us who are playing khelds. They aren't as important as the mechanics changes, but they'd also go a long way in just making us feel like we aren't third class citizens in this game. A lot of the work is already probably done even, at least on the alternate animation front. Its really just a matter of plugging it in for the players.
I wonder how often developers cringe when they see "We already have X for Y, so it is easy to put X in Z"
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
Proposed Photon Seekers "as mobile Trip Mines Pets" rework (note, requires *only* a few text edits to Powers Database!):
Cast time 2.03 seconds
Recharge time 20 seconds
Endurance cost 13
Summoned pet duration 60s (1 Photon Seeker per casting of power) (can have more than 1 active simultaneously)
Attack types AOE_Attack, Energy_Attack
Effect area Sphere
Radius 10 feet
Max targets hit 10
91.2 Energy damage
+0.67 Knockup PvE only
+1.407 Knockup (50% chance) PvE only
+0.67 Knockup If target is a player, Suppressed when Knocked, for 10 seconds (WhenInactive)
+1.407 Knockup (50% chance) If target is a player, Suppressed when Knocked, for 10 seconds (WhenInactive)
=====
Reconfigure Light Form to function more like Shadow Meld from Soul Mastery (for Stalkers) ... short duration, short recharge, more *responsive* to changing situations, shorter "lockout" against Nova and Dwarf Forms.
Recharge Time: reduce from 1000s to 90s
Duration of Effects to Self: reduce from 180s to 15s
Remove Endurance Crash completely
=====
Cosmic Balance
Self:
- DMG(Energy, Smashing) +10% for 10s If target is a Tanker, Defender, Mastermind, or Corruptor [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- RES(All Types) +5% for 10s If target is a Scrapper, Blaster, Brute, or Stalker [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- -0.5 Stun, Held, Terrorized, Confused, Sleep, Immobilize for 10s If target is a Controller or Dominator and NOT on a PvP Map [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- RES(Stun, Held, Terrorized, Confused, Sleep, Immobilize) +5% for 10s If target is a Controller or Dominator and ON a PvP Map [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- RES(RechargeTime) +5% for 10s If target is a VEAT or Kheldian [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- DMG(Energy, Smashing) +10% for 10s If target is a Tanker, Defender, Mastermind, or Corruptor [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- RES(All Types) +5% for 10s If target is a Scrapper, Blaster, Brute, or Stalker [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- -0.5 Stun, Held, Terrorized, Confused, Sleep, Immobilize for 10s If target is a Controller or Dominator and NOT on a PvP Map [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- RES(Stun, Held, Terrorized, Confused, Sleep, Immobilize) +5% for 10s If target is a Controller or Dominator and ON a PvP Map [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
- RES(RechargeTime) +5% for 10s If target is a VEAT or Kheldian [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
=====
*ALL* Peacebringer KnockDOWN and KnockBACK attack powers changed to KnockUP instead. Pure Powers Database text edits only.
=====
*ALL* Peacebringer attack powers which require Ground Contact (ie. no Flight powers active) have this (stupid!) limitation removed. Peacebringers INHERENTLY FLY.
=====
Shining Shield, Thermal Shield, Quantum Shield each add -1 Mag vs Mez (Stun, Held, Sleep, Immobilize) per shield.
=====
Quantum Flight has its Flight Speed and Endurance Cost realigned to match the new reality of current gameplay.
=====
White Dwarf Strike: reduce recharge from 3s to 2s, rebalance endurance cost and damage accordingly
White Dwarf Smite: reduce recharge from 6s to 4s, rebalance endurance cost and damage accordingly
White Dwarf Flare: reduce recharge from 16s to 10s, rebalance endurance cost and damage accordingly
White Dwarf has one less attack power than Black Dwarf, yielding an "incomplete" attack chain for White Dwarf. Compensate by reducing recharge times on White Dwarf attack powers (Strike, Smite, Flare) by 1/3, allowing them to cycle more efficiently/effectively to cover for the lack of a 3rd single target attack power available to Warshades (Black Dwarf Drain).
=====
Wishful Thinking:
*ALL* Peacebringer attack powers that do Defense Debuff have their Defense Debuff values halved (durations remain unchanged) ... and gain a Resistance Debuff value equal to the newly halved Defense Debuff value, with a duration equal to the Defence Debuff. Basically convert the Defense Debuffs of Peacebringer attack powers into being 1/2 Defense Debuff, 1/2 Resistance Debuff.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
I'm (unsurprisingly) mostly happy with PBs. I don't (and generally won't) agree with things like mez protection/etc in human and the like. And I *like* my knockback, thanks. That said:
- Photon Seekers. Started a thread w/my views and discussion/suggestion here.
- Shifting. Wouldn't argue with the shift time being shorter.
- Would not argue with Build Up/Conserve Power/buffs (not shields, necessarily) being usable in form.
- I get people not liking shields being shut off durign shifting - for PB *or* WS. If there's a way to suppress but keep them "on" (or... make them "auto" with a single power that boosts the stats of all three in human form, or some such,) I could see it as a QOL fix.
And we have a near-sash in Steampunk... so how about going all the way there.
Edit:
Also,
Quote:
Have you looked at the test/beta server's notes? The -tohit penalty is being removed from it and Group Fly.
| . Id settle for it gaining some form of useful buff on its own though. |
Quote:
Well, considering that they've already done it with other sets, and characters...id say its pretty easy.|
Originally Posted by _Pine_
I wonder how often developers cringe when they see "We already have X for Y, so it is easy to put X in Z"
|
Time consuming? That's something else entirely.
But they've done it before with other powers, and other characters so it is "easy" in that regard. All I'm asking is they do for us what they've already done for others.
Quote:
That's a valid viewpoint, certainly, but I hope you could get behind a change that makes the powers just shy of knockback. The vast majority of players would like this to happen, and for those people, like yourself, who enjoy the kb, you can add a kb enhancer and voila. That change alone would make pb's more popular and more welcome on teams.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And I *like* my knockback, thanks. That said:
|
Edit: if having to add an enhancer to retain your kb is unacceptable (understandable ask we have so few slots anyway), we could as for some sort of option for kheld powers to be kb or kd, though that would be more time-consuming for the devs.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Quote:
I can live with it on Radiant Strike and all of the other bits, but it needs to go on Solar Flare. It is completely counterproductive to every kind of playstyle, since it's highly inaccurate for herding (or even just pushing dudes towards your team) and scatters like mad (making it harder for you, a person with a lot of decent melee attacks, to melee). There's pretty literally no effective tactical advantage it provides.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And I *like* my knockback, thanks.
|
I can sometimes use Radiant Strike to knock dudes towards my team, which is nice, but knocking an entire group around does nothing except frustrate the people on my team. Let me put it another way: I want to be able to use my powers without causing excessive frustration to the other people on my team. I shouldn't have to sit there and carefully weigh the advantages and disadvantages of using Solar Flare in a big group of people, because this is a superhero MMO about beating up people, and doing a cost/benefit analysis every time I want to do some PBAoE damage is goofy.
All PB powers that have KB should be changed to KD
^I agree with that. Replace all KB with KD. Replace Light Form with a power that *can* be made perma, with no crash... Eclipse for warshades is simply not fair compared to PB's getting stuck with Light Form. I personally also think that all Khelds should have a 400% damage cap- There's no reason for an AT who's primary function is damage to have the same cap as a defender.
Quote:
Horrible idea. Hope it never happens.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
^I agree with that. Replace all KB with KD.
|
Quote:
| . Eclipse for warshades is simply not fair |
Light Form, meanwhile, can be fired off at any time and has the same strength and same effects, each and every time.
Funny how poeple keep *neglecting to mention* that in their complaints about how "Light Form sucks compared to Eclipse."
Really?? I think KB is the single most obnoxious and unproductive secondary effect in the game. No powerset should suffer that horrible fate, especially an AT that's already considered second class by the majority of the game.
Quote:
Yeah PB's are definitely not suited for an exact copy of eclipse, but warshades are able to be played much more aggressively since they aren't squishy or second rate-- They just need a little fine tuning. Inherent TP from spawn to spawn if you keep getting beat by melee... You'll still be weak against single AV's but that's usually the only situation where shades aren't playing in god mode. (Excluding lots and lots of +4x8 sappers.. I still have to turn my difficulty down on Malta tips :/)
| ... except they require X number of enemies, can't fire it off (well, can, but no real point to it) unless they have them around, and if they're stuck in a 1v1 situation (such as against an AV) it doesn't do them anywhere near as much good. Or, say, someone runs up and fires off their Judgement power, killing off the spawn as you fire off Eclipse. Result? NO benefit to you. |
Quote:
Learn to use it effectively then. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Really?? I think KB is the single most obnoxious and unproductive secondary effect in the game.
|
It's in the same category as the Storm powerset - using it badly makes people hate it, and remember it was "so bad, knocking stuff around everywhere," etc, etc. Using it well makes people think you're godly.
And yes, I *have* had comments to that effect (on both my PBs, energy blasters and Stormies) - the gist of which were "And I was worried when a PB (or stormy) joined that everything would get scattered, but you don't do that."
Quote:
| Yeah PB's are definitely not suited for an exact copy of eclipse, but warshades are able to be played much more aggressively since they aren't squishy or second rate |
Sure, but defenders are still a valued AT and Storm is considered a very powerful set.. Whereas PB's are deemed mediocre if played well, never really desirable, and the knockback is just the last nail in their coffin. :/
It's sad, because I really enjoy the archetype but I feel like it's bound to be condemned until lots of things are fixed. Kheldians as a whole need some major revisiting.
Quote:
What is your Peacebringer exceptional at? My warshade melts through groups faster than anyone else he's ever teamed with... I've outlived Stone Tanks and used them for vengeance, while clearing groups by myself and had a couple of scrappers working through their own shared group somewhere else on the map. Sure-- Peacebringers are better than warshades against single targets. But in terms of overall, PB's really don't excel at anything. If they're played well, they're always "fine..." And even that is a big accomplishment because playing a kheldian in general well is not an easy thing to do.
| Funny, I have no problem playing my Peacebringers aggressively. Nice, reliable HP boost, heal and buffs, no need to worry about if an enemy's going to be dead in time (or I'm going to get away to get to their corpse in time) to use it for anything... And definitely don't feel "second rate." |
Quote:
"Looking for healer!" is not the same as "Valued AT." And while yes, Defenders can do great things, and some people do wake up to that (see RO) it seems most people just want a "healer." |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Sure, but defenders are still a valued AT
|
Quote:
| Whereas PB's are deemed mediocre if played well, never really desirable, and the knockback is just the last nail in their coffin. :/ |
Frankly, I'd say 90% of the playerbase *doesn't care* that you're a PB - or anything else. You're another person to team with with a somewhat different AT (and I've seen enough new folks around to say "that they probably haven't seen before.")
Quote:
Being a Peacebringer. The playstyle varies depending on which one I'm on, as I have several throughout the levels. It means having that mix of powers and having more flexibility than a "standard" AT.
|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
What is your Peacebringer exceptional at?
|
Quote:
I actually feel like healers are pretty irrelevant... Debuffers are extremely valuable though and defenders are fantastic at that. A debuffing Kheldian would be pretty cool, come to think...|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
"Looking for healer!" is not the same as "Valued AT." And while yes, Defenders can do great things, and some people do wake up to that (see RO) it seems most people just want a "healer."
|
Quote:
| Never been turned away or had any complaints on any of mine, or heard "No, don't invite the Peacebringer" when I wasn't on one and someone else was forming the team. (Or complaints about inviting one when I was.) |
Quote:
| Frankly, I'd say 90% of the playerbase *doesn't care* that you're a PB - or anything else. You're another person to team with with a somewhat different AT (and I've seen enough new folks around to say "that they probably haven't seen before.") |
Oh I totally agree with this-- See my last comment. I was just speaking to the effectiveness of the archetype compared to Warshades. Peacebringers are incapable of shining to that extent in *any* situation, whereas Warshades have godly potential in most situations- Single targets being the only exception. Getting beat to spawns is something I've struggled with, but it just made me start playing more aggressively.
This edit is just to clarify my original on topic point... I feel that PB's need to have light form buffed enough for it to share the potential of eclipse. There needs to be a way to make it a permanent self buff through set bonuses and the crash is unnecessary. I really wish that I could justify spending billions of inf. on my PB like I did on my warshade, because I enjoy playing him, but it just seems wasteful given their present state.
Yo and hello fellow Khelds (Why did I type that?
)
As those of us who frequent these boards know, there's been a lot of discussion (Some constructive, some not so much) about what changes are needed to bring PBs' performance more in line with other ATs. The ideas are flying but we've yet to come to a consensus about what we want. That's what this thread is intended for. I wanna centralize all the calculations and suggestions so we can put together a succinct package that can recieve player support and, hopefully, Dev attention.
For my part I'll be linking threads that contain solid, empirical data to this post so everyone can see the numbers without having to go on long searches. We all enjoy Kheldians, otherwise we wouldn't play 'em, and I think we can all agree that more changes are needed. So get in the mix and let's get something nailed down so we can start harassing the Devs about it
EDIT: Dunno why I didn't think of this before but since this thread is supposed to consolidate ideas I figure I'll do the same. I'll be updating this post as consistent ideas develop to form a tentative proposal. That way we can debate the specifics without having to read through the entire thread over and over again. So, without further ado...
Proposed Peacebringer Changes
I. Cosmic Balance (Inherent)
II. Damage
III. Forms
IV. Powers (Human)
Wanna play a Peacebringer? Don't believe the hype. Check out my guide and get the real truth:
PEACEBRINGERS SUCK!!! (Now fully up to date for i21+