PC_guy

fixing pvp bugs is pretty new. i can't remember the last time one was fixed. and it's especially new in that they've never done a fix that has completely nutter'd a set. i suppose it's just arbitrary to do a change like this, when they could have picked a bug that would have HELPED a set instead of hurting one. like say, idk, fixing indom will.

like the guy said, fixing bugs is great. but when it's not done on a regular basis and its done in a very arbitrary fasion, it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal

I think it was more the point that this change really serves no purpose. for instance, if you're car is broken and has a multitude of problems it really does no good to just change the spark plugs.

and in this specific case, were they literally never touch pvp bugs (see my first statement about it being more surprising that they actually changed something than the subject of the change) and when they were told about the bug multiple times, in cb and after with no response, you grow to accept it.

thats not technically true, and this conversation has been had multiple times.

if the devs were creating content centered around getting more people to RP, they wouldn't ignore the RPers feedback and listen to pvpers would they? cuz thats basically what happened.

it's unfortunate because of the potential the game has based on it's sheer mechanics being different than other games, and it really could have worked if both sides would have worked together, but each got up their own *** with pride, harsh words were said, and pvp has been dead ever sense.

if the point of the HO fix was never brought up, would we even be having this conversation? if this was a simple "can we have a acc/res enhancement/set/ho/whatever" would this even be an issue? of course not.

personally, i agree with plasma, if the status quo doesn't change for 7 years and you let it go on with only 1 comment about it, players adapt to it. and even so, i thought that, while not intended, it did give HOs a more of a use the current IO world, atleast for me, I wouldn't have used them nearly as much if they didn't buff things they weren't supposed to and made builds more interesting. of course it was an exploit, and you can't be sad when they do fix them. i'm just treating this the same as the botz nerf.

as for you, you're mistaking a simple idea and request with a sense of entitlement. TBH didn't come on here saying "THE DEVS BETTER MAKE THESE ENHANCEMENTS CUZ THEY BROKEDEDED MY BUILD WITH THEIR HO NERF" he was simply saying in light of the change, would that be possible. there was no sense of entitlement with his request. this wasn't your "rage at nerf" thread. it would appear that you are trying to make an argument and argue out of nothing.

as for the idea, i think acc/res is too narrow a category, since off the top of my head i can't think of another power that uses such a mechanic,(not to say there aren't any, i just can't think of them). however if there was some way to make a "damage mitigation/acc" set or enhancement that would boost res *or* defense depending on the power, i think that has more applications. but either way it'd be nice to have

I always liked air burst

no one is not saying that. that is exactly what we are saying. thats the entire point of this thread. removal of TS (not so much HD) would imporve evading and overall increase the speed of pvp. period.

it does not imply that at all. all that it implies is that all those things you just mentioned were completely taken out of the system making them non factors.

simplier =! better

no it doesn't. it doesn't at all.

temporary?

get your ****ing ponies out of my forums

neither of which will happen.

i've explained it twice and it really does seem that you're either ignoring me, ignoring the other people in the thread that have also explained it too you, or you're just hardcore trollin or some combination of the three.

you're exactly right, thats not what you're reading in this thread. because absolutely no one is saying this but you.

because thats happened before and doesn't matter? we can organize an put lists together and do whatever else organized things do. it won't make a difference. we've already done, afew times now, and the bottom line is, it'll get done when the devs want to get it done. the devs don't want to, and probably never will want to, get it done in a correct fashion.

there is not much point in yelling and screaming, no matter how correct it is, when it falls on deaf ears.

it drastically slows down the pace of the game? it suppresses regen for no reason at all? if i want to buff myself with an insp i intern debuff myself by slowing me down?

those are just afew off the top of my head.

thats fantastic and all but thats not really whats going on. it really just looks like you're completely ignoring our reasoning and summing it up by saying "we like to chase people" and "i don't like to chase people" which is completely ludicrous and borderline troll.

no one is saying that it wouldn't. thats exactly what it would do. and that exactly what it should do.


look man, it's not entirely based on improving the ability to flee, albeit thats part of it but a small part. imporving one's ability to evade would intern improve the pace of the overall gameplay experience. thats the main argument behind it.

also if they remove TS and also fix how slows and mez work, you're then able to bring back a use for ATs that have slows and mez and you now have a reason to bring them onto your team. which ironically, was the entire point of i13 and why it failed so hard.

basically the only point you've conveyed about keeping TS in is that you don't like chasing people in fights. alright, fine. neither does anyone else. thats why you get someone on your team that can lock them down so you aren't chasing people around the map. post i13 that doesn't exist. the closest thing you have is webnades to get the -jump and -fly but thats a hollow shell of what it was/should be. it's a very simple concept that i honestly can't understand why you wrap your mind around.

well it's pretty far off.

except thats not at all what he was arguing.

he was saying that no TS kept the speed of the game fast, and that having it in there has significantly slowed down.

Not having TS adds another aspect to the game that you have to account for. for instance, before i13 everyone was bouncing around like jumping beans how do you get a kill if everyone is fleeing and actively trying to *not* die? you get someone on your team that has a slow, immob, hold, mez, ect. so that when whoever was calling a target calls the target, it's easier to kill. it added another element to pvp that your team had to account for and handle in order to be effective and ultimately added to team diversity because it was much more useful to have someone on your team to take care of that.

you don't have that now because of what happened to slows and mez.

now if you want to argue whether or not that is "better" is one thing, but atleast acknowledge that its more complicated than "i like chasing people, i don't like chasing people" because it is.

and even then, I think you should atleast acknowledge that if TS is left in place, that it atleast in it's current state is overkill and needs to be lighten'd up alot. suppressing when you when you pop an insp, buff, debuff, ect. is completely absurd.

incandescent strike is a mag 3 hold. the differnce being that WS's have a bunch of stuns that stack on each other where as PBs only have the 1 that is mag 2. *knock on wood that that gets changed soon*

from my pb experience though, PBs are pretty straight forward though.

because whats the point in continuously supporting ideas with facts over and over and over again if they never get listened to?

eventually even the most staunch players, get bored and tired. it's easier just to say its a bad mechanic as short hand for explaining why, because the why has been said, literally thousands of times that no one old feels that it needs to be said anymore. hell the "why" is sticky'd at the top of the entire section.

they can't take us seriously because they don't want to. people always joke about "devs hate x", the thing about pvp is, its basically true. they could give a **** about anything pvp related. they don't care. they don't care if we know they don't care.

this thread has no point because it's main idea is never going to happen.

doubt it. mod08 was our last legitimate chance. Z has just as much power as he did but doesn't care as much. and after the mac client fiasco with i21, I have little faith in Z.

please. have you seen his sonic/sonic in RV? no one stands a chance

it even beat je saist's spine/shield scrap. i've never been able to do that

well do you remember that time were you suggested someone to roll a spines/shield because it would be an aoe monster?

or that time where you posted anything about pvp. ever.

or that time when you said that the devs would be stupid to merge the markets and that it would never ever happen.

of course you wouldn't know any of this because when people call you out on your misinformation, you don't return to the thread.

I think mental is the best bet. it covers dark/'s main hole which is lack of AoE. you get that with psi shockwave and psi scream. not to mention you can DP through nuke crashes, and get some pretty good slot mules with scare and WoC.

the thing about /dark is. the only thing I can figure out that it has going for it is soul drain. on my dark/dark i plan to get enough recharge to perma it. but other than that there really isn't much. dark consumption is nice but doesn't really help you in terms of AoE. midnight grasp is also really good but I'm not sure how it works in terms of a ST chain, although i can't imagine adding it in over one of the blasts would increase dps, but i have no clue.

/nrg has the ability to incrase the -to hit debuff if im not mistaken. and boost range is nice for the cones. also the quick melee attacks.

but i think you have to go with one of these three. mm being the best and dark/nrg tieing for second.

you didn't. that was just a general statement. thats a personal preference.

yes. and we're both in agreement about that. the point that i'm arguing is wether that increase in survivability is needed.

And my shade is able to solo groups on 4/8 as well and I haven't found anything that has been too much for it to handle with little defense. stay out of melee range/kite cuts out a good bit of damage. keep things KBed with GE and stunned with GE/inky/unchain combo. I have yet to find stuff that that hasn't worked on.

again, sounds like we have a similar playstyle i.e. playing stupid :P and I don't seem to mind it.

same. the big difference i can tell is that my performance doesn't drop as much when i'm not at 50 since i'm not relying on spiritual and I took musc so in theory i'm doing more damage. while still maintaing everything you just listed and enough survivability(note: not *more* but enough for the game which is my point) also would open up some slots for perhaps more proc slotting which would also increase damage and HP which is always fantastic.

perma eclispe? sure perma hasten? thats something different. perma hasten without taking spiritual? i'd love to see that build.
building just for defense isn't unreasonable. I don't think it's reasonable to accumulate a significant amount of defense while maintaining a high amount of recharge.
and I would assume that someone who is looking/wanting at a high recharge build, that perma hasten is your ultimate goal.
fair enough, if you'll allow let me go back and put a retroactive "this is my opinion" disclaimer on my posts.

I don't agree with his at all. defense is very good. it does increase survivability. but you don't need it to excel against high level groups. pure resistance by itself won't cut it either. but if you couple that with everything else the warshade has, and smart play then I feel its overkill for survivability. much like adding recovery or endurance discount to a toon that has no endurance problems (vigilance). incarnate stuff just fills whatever remaining holes you have and there are ways around those tougher enemy groups.
to be fair, a build that is able to get, say 20+ defense to afew types/positions is going to be more survivable. and once over i think both builds we're talking about here are viable and good builds. I just think that those situations that you're going to need that extra survivability is very very rare. (I could throw out some personal experiences here if you'd like) especially if you're making good use of all your powers and playing smart. so why not take those slots that you're using for defense turn em around to get more recharge, perma hasten, not force yourself into taking spiritual and give yourself abit more freedom with your slots.

also if you(I) ever find yourself in a situation were i do need more defense or derp playing or whatever, i can always pop some purples and be fine. you can always increase you defense with insp but you can't increase your recharge with em.

i didn't say that either wasn't a help but a recharge only build is going to be a much cheaper one, while still being expensive, and yield you enough defenses to basically survive the entire game. it's not that defenses aren't a help, I just think they make builds very tight which isn't helpful on an AT that is already in a slot crunch and the sheer expense to get enough defenses makes it not worth the time and inf.