Conceptual pondering: Peacebringer mostly at range


Aneko

 

Posted

I'm one of those players who tends to be happiest at range. (Mastermind is my very favorite class, partly for this reason.) I've read a lot of discussion here and dabbled a little, but before I blast on ahead, I wonder how feasible it would be to take a character and slot up human and nova stuff pretty fully, and just take dwarf without extra slotting for use in mez breaking and such.

Ideal for me would be a human-only ranged build, but that seems not especially feasible. (Am I wrong? It seems like it'd be giving up a huge chunk of the actually damage attacks.) Human/nova is the logical next progression. But when I see folks write about human/nova, they seem to assume that you won't touch dwarf at all. I wonder if I'm missing something there, since it seems like it'd be handy for emergencies.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MriBruce View Post
Ideal for me would be a human-only ranged build, but that seems not especially feasible. (Am I wrong? It seems like it'd be giving up a huge chunk of the actually damage attacks.)
Unless you're using a different definition of "feasible", then yes, you are wrong. Why do you need to compete with anyone for Most Damage Dealt? My single-form ranged PB has enough survivability that DPS isn't an issue unless I'm trying to solo an AV or something similar.

Of course you can always take the melee attacks as well, but only use them when you feel it's necessary.


'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Thanks, Aneko, that's super encouraging.


 

Posted

PBs can make good blappers and although I usually run right in with the scrapper mentality with mine, I have taken advantage of the ranged attacks and sat back a bit especially when NS decided that I was the most dangerous person on the map during one BAF and would immediately go after me if I got too close.


 

Posted

Believe it or not, with reactive slotted the most damaging pb chain is 2 ranged attacks and one melee (RStrike>Blast>Bolt). RStrike is easily the best damage attack you can do, so you just have to decide if giving that up is worth it for you. If it's purely for concept, you can handle going ranged; if you're worried about damage, you might want to blap; if you're worried about survival...don't be.


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Posted

My Quad-Form PB (human/nova/dwarf/light) doesn't use any of the human melee attacks other than Incandescent Strike. I've got Gleaming Bolt, Proton Scatter and Luminous Detonation for my ranged attacks, and I'm never hurting for something to do at range. I also use Assault and Tactics to "narrow the gap" between Human and Nova forms, to the point where I usually only use Nova form for range rather than for damage in the late game. Nova form is still useful when exemplared into the early game though.


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Posted

In my experience, the Strength of the human-form PB is that he is Flexible. He can do a little bit of everything (without resorting to Power-Pools) and do it relatively well.

You can Blast, and you have both Single-target and AoE attacks. Later in the build, you pick us some powerful melee attacks that allow you to Scrap - a little. And you have Shields, to give you some protection while you do it. Later still, you get a PBAoE and TWO nukes. You also have a Dull Pain clone, a Reconstruction clone, and a fairly unique ranged Heal Other. Finally, Light Form is your 'temporary god-mode'.

You have Other powers, which I find situational and unsuited to My playstyle, but which you may enjoy.

The other main strength of a Peacebringers, in general, is that they are self-contained and consistent. A Warshade's power fluctuates and depends on the availability of nearby bodies, while a PB needs no external factor to make him powerful. Every attack and ability is going to precisely as strong as the last time you used it.

The play-style that works for me, is to mix it all up. Blast at range, Scrap with the 'leakers' that make the mistake up running up to melee with you, Toss out the occasional 'fill-in heal', change ranges and Blast again, and if you see a tasty-looking pile of enemy, dash in and drop a Nuke on them. If you consider the Tankers and Scrappers to be line-of-scrimmage specialists, while the Blasters and Defenders do their thing from the rear-echelon, the human-form PB is the utility mid-fielder who keeps an eye on everything that's happening and fills in the breaks as needed.

Solo, it's more of the same, basically a 'Blapper', with the addition of shields and self-heals.

However, that brings up another issue - Kheldians are Much Stronger when they are on a team. A Peacebringer's inherent team-buff Balances his team. Low-damage teammates, like Tankers and Defenders boost a PB's Damage output, so a trio, with Tanker, Defender, and PB makes the PB a 'real Blaster'. Low-resistance teammates, like Scrappers and Blasters boost the PB's damage Resistance and making them even tougher. Teaming with a Controller gives the PB some Mez Protection and teaming with another Kheldian gives Slow/Recharge resistance.

Warshades are Reinforced by their teammates, getting Damage from Scrappers and Blasters and Resistance from Tankers and Defenders, while the effects of Controllers and other Kheldians remain the same.

Finally, and perhaps Best, as a pure Human-form Peacebringer you actually have enough slots to enhance all of your powers!!

So I see no reason not to go with a human-form Peacebringer, enjoy the full-featured ranged attack-chain, but Also take the melee-range attacks, to help deal with the inevitable.

Be Well!
Fireheart


 

Posted

Wow, thank you, everyone! Very hugely encouraging.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microcosm View Post
Believe it or not, with reactive slotted the most damaging pb chain is 2 ranged attacks and one melee (RStrike>Blast>Bolt). RStrike is easily the best damage attack you can do, so you just have to decide if giving that up is worth it for you. If it's purely for concept, you can handle going ranged; if you're worried about damage, you might want to blap; if you're worried about survival...don't be.

Serious? I know incandescent strike has a long animation and all but it's still doing 708.4 damage with inner light up on my build, vs. 370.6 from r strike.I still haven't figured out how to check activation times in Mids and I'm not in game right now.


 

Posted

Quote:
Light Form is your 'temporary god-mode'.
temporary?


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Posted

Radiant Strike has a fast animation - 1.07, in fact. So 346 DPA vs 214 DPA.

Though honestly, anyone who's that fussed about such things is, to my mind just wrong - this is a game more about burst than about DPS, and individual DPA routines are not meaningful enough to concern me, personally, unless the character is truly obssessive about maneuverability and fragile as a ball of tissue paper.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talen Lee View Post
Radiant Strike has a fast animation - 1.07, in fact. So 346 DPA vs 214 DPA.

Though honestly, anyone who's that fussed about such things is, to my mind just wrong - this is a game more about burst than about DPS, and individual DPA routines are not meaningful enough to concern me, personally, unless the character is truly obssessive about maneuverability and fragile as a ball of tissue paper.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get the most out of a character. You can still enjoy a characters' appearance, story, and want to maximize performance. Personally, that sort of stuff just interests me. I like to reach the potential of what I can accomplish, particularly with my favorite characters.


 

Posted

Quote:
I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get the most out of a character.
Sure, me neither. But I don't think that you get more out of your character by obssessing over DPA. There are too many other factors involved.

If every attack recharged instantaneously, then we'd have something to work with, but they don't.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talen Lee View Post
Sure, me neither. But I don't think that you get more out of your character by obssessing over DPA. There are too many other factors involved.
Like... What factors? I don't think much else is involved with "put your highest damage attack chain on the AV," for example. If I hadn't bothered finding a good ST attack chain for my Warshade he wouldn't be the level 53 AV soloer that he is today.


 

Posted

Other factors? Total recharge time; holes in attack chains; ability to quickly remove individual key targets; endurance cost; positional requirements. My point is that pure DPA does not determine an optimal attack chain. You can build to have truly extreme cases of recharge like say, Dual Blades' three-attacks-that-don't-combo, but that's not what we're really talking about.

Now, you're right; for a large hard target like a 53, DPS is very important. But DPA is part of what makes up optimal DPS; it does not necessarily dictate the whole of it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talen Lee View Post
Other factors? Total recharge time; holes in attack chains; ability to quickly remove individual key targets; endurance cost; positional requirements. My point is that pure DPA does not determine an optimal attack chain. You can build to have truly extreme cases of recharge like say, Dual Blades' three-attacks-that-don't-combo, but that's not what we're really talking about.
Well I think most people who maximize their attack chains take the time to have well rounded builds that account for having enough recharge and recovery to implement said attack chain in the first place. And yeah especially for a Kheldian taking out mezzers first is important, but say for things like Arachnos' Mu bosses/Tarantula Mistresses eliminating the threat as quickly as possible (via an optimized attack chain) is going to be a great way to handle that situation.
Quote:
Now, you're right; for a large hard target like a 53, DPS is very important. But DPA is part of what makes up optimal DPS; it does not necessarily dictate the whole of it.
I feel like you're splitting hairs now. ><


 

Posted

I think we've gotten a bit lost from the original point. I don't know your stance, whether positive or negative on Incandescent Strike. Myself, I'm a fan of the animation, but I'm not playing my Peacebringer any more so what I think of its powers in situ is meaningless.

I was just trying to provide some amelioration and balance to the 'DPA is all' mindset that I feared could be presented. I don't even know what you think about IStrike at all. It's what leads to the forum-based rubbishing on Energy Melee, for example, and I have basically no respect for that attitude.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
Serious? I know incandescent strike has a long animation and all but it's still doing 708.4 damage with inner light up on my build, vs. 370.6 from r strike.I still haven't figured out how to check activation times in Mids and I'm not in game right now.
Yup, IStrike takes waaaaay long to activate. I still have it, but mostly as a set mule.

The burst damage argument is invalid here. Looking at the base damages, by the time your burst damage IStrike lands, you will have done 168.3 damage; by doing RStrike followed by Gleaming Blast (from the chain) you will do 165.61 damage in slightly less time. Since the latter will give you two chances for reactive procs to increase your damage, it is superior in every way to the supposed "burst" in this case. It does look cool though I also find that frequently when I try to use IStrike in teams my target will be dead before it lands because the activation is so freaking long.

Obviously if you don't have the recharge to run a particular chain, you run what you can to get the best damage.


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Posted

If I was going to build a peacebringer who was only meant to attack at range I would include nova in the build. If nova didn't fit into my overall concept, I would re-think and probably settle on a corr or blaster.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
If I was going to build a peacebringer who was only meant to attack at range I would include nova in the build. If nova didn't fit into my overall concept, I would re-think and probably settle on a corr or blaster.
That doesn't answer the OP's question.


'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
That doesn't answer the OP's question.
My answer is very clear and on topic (obviously not to you though). I am hoping the OP understands that without nova the Peacebringer is at somewhat of a disadvantage keeping at range. If I was someone who had a play style suited more range attack I would stay away from PB absent of Nova. I was simple stating what my opinion is if I was in his/her situation.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
My answer is very clear and on topic (obviously not to you though). I am hoping the OP understands that without nova the Peacebringer is at somewhat of a disadvantage keeping at range. If I was someone who had a play style suited more range attack I would stay away from PB absent of Nova. I was simple stating what my opinion is if I was in his/her situation.

BTW Aneko, your post is very off topic as well as not even remotely related to the OP's question. Please take the trolling elsewhere.

For what it's worth, I thought your response was more relevant than the majority of responses to OP's on these forums- I would even call it completely on topic.

Your opinion is totally valid but something to keep in mind is that Human Form actually has access to more ranged attacks than Nova, and they do comparable if not even more damage. You have the targeted AoE, the Cone, a choice between 3 ranged ST blasts, and a pseudo-nuke in Photon Seekers that can be used at range.

Still though, I think skipping solar flare and the blaps is a bit of poor decision making- The PB's ability to function at range and in melee is something that I really enjoy about mine, for instance. I also play my PB completely airborne (I'm one of the few who loves the Solar Flare change for this reason) so that I can quickly move in and out of melee, and position my aoe attacks from above to help downsize my KB.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
If I was going to build a peacebringer who was only meant to attack at range I would include nova in the build. If nova didn't fit into my overall concept, I would re-think and probably settle on a corr or blaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
That doesn't answer the OP's question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
My answer is very clear and on topic (obviously not to you though). I am hoping the OP understands that without nova the Peacebringer is at somewhat of a disadvantage keeping at range. If I was someone who had a play style suited more range attack I would stay away from PB absent of Nova. I was simple stating what my opinion is if I was in his/her situation.
BTW Aneko, your post is very off topic as well as not even remotely related to the OP's question. Please take the trolling elsewhere.
I'd say your initial advice, suggesting that a Nova-build might be best for 'ranged-only', was right on the money. Frankly, Nova has no response for melee-range attacks, except to fly away. However, the second part of your advice implied that a Human-build PB was not worth trying and you'd rather play a different AT.

Aneko suggested that wasn't sufficient answer. I'm really not sure why you felt that warranted an attack.

The rest of the posts in this thread were in regards to how a Human-build PB could, indeed, suit the OP's needs, since it had a wider variety and number of ranged attacks than the Nova. Nova has no advantage, except inherent Flight and more damage per attack, and it only has four attacks, 2 ST, a Cone, and a targeted AoE. In order to do Anything else, you have to switch to Human-form.

Be Well!
Fireheart


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
My answer is very clear and on topic (obviously not to you though). I am hoping the OP understands that without nova the Peacebringer is at somewhat of a disadvantage keeping at range. If I was someone who had a play style suited more range attack I would stay away from PB absent of Nova. I was simple stating what my opinion is if I was in his/her situation.
The actual question to which I refer is whether or not a human-only ranged-only PB is feasible. Stating your preference for doing something else is no answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
BTW Aneko, your post is very off topic as well as not even remotely related to the OP's question. Please take the trolling elsewhere.
Obviously it's related to the question, since it's about the question. And you can take your accusations to some place where they're not against the rules of the forum.


'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

It may be worth noting that I asked if there are lurking problems in taking the dwarf form and not slotting it after that for a build intended for range play.

There was then commentary on human-only ranged viability, which was very helpful, and then increasingly weird hostility about issues I don't understand, which isn't.

But nobody actually had a clear answer for me: In a human/nova build, would I find the mez relief and such from basic dwarf form helpful enough to allocate a power to it, or should I figure on getting it other ways?

EDIT: All of the above is assuming a SO or low-cost IO build.