Yep. Dark went from a AoE set to a ST one.
The AoE knock back is a bit too strong IMO. TT's cone is shorter and if you aoe knock back, the mobs may get scattered and they can't get closer to you due to immb.
Luckily, Blaster has options! You can get another cone from Scream or another cone from Epic.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
fail, losing faith in the devs again to make proper decisions
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*edit after reading Jibikao's comment above*
Perhaps just slot a range IO in TT to make the cone larger, thus increasing the synergy of the two powers? Or just run a little closer? I love slotting my cones for range, it makes them much more potent.
Personally, I'm glad to see the addition of the ST hold power, as mitigation is a Blasters friend. And I have never been a fan of blapping, so a set full of powers focused around keeping my enemies at distance is just fine by me. But since you are talking of synergy... I really wish there was more between Dark Blast and Dark Manipulation, but that horse has been beaten already.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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Yep. Umbral Torrent has the AWFUL knockback component from torrent. Oh well, I'll just make a dark blast corrputor then.
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Been a while since I last checked but are they still REALLY merging night fall and torrent completely failing the best AOE synergy of the set?
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H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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The biggest upgrade is Life Drain. It is now a decent attack that doesn't cost a lot ton of endurance and only has 8s recharge. The single hold also does decent damage too. |
Originally Posted by Winterminal
*edit after reading Jibikao's comment above*
Perhaps just slot a range IO in TT to make the cone larger, thus increasing the synergy of the two powers? Or just run a little closer? I love slotting my cones for range, it makes them much more potent. Personally, I'm glad to see the addition of the ST hold power, as mitigation is a Blasters friend. And I have never been a fan of blapping, so a set full of powers focused around keeping my enemies at distance is just fine by me. But since you are talking of synergy... I really wish there was more between Dark Blast and Dark Manipulation, but that horse has been beaten already. |
I am never a big fan of AoE knockback, especially as strong as Torrent is. 80 range?!!!
It is useful but when I want to go all out on aoe, I don't want to aoe and then they are scatter and then they are immbed..... T_T
TT only has 40 range? I can't remember but its range is quite short. Even if you put +range, it is still quite short. It is just a wide cone.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I've been playing around with it a Dark/Mental on test, and it's actually worked pretty well, though given the secondary, I've more or less been able to replace Night Fall with Psychic Scream (skipping Umbral Torrent completely). The Life Drain buff is pretty freakin' nice, even with just SOs. Abyssal Gaze'll need some Frankenslotting, but will be extremely potent when slotted properly (I'm so far just using SOs).
I can't see it doing too well as a Blapper set, and as has been mentioned, that means no real synergy with Darkness Manipulation, but it seems like a solid set on its own.
I'll also say that while I skipped Umbral Torrent given my secondary, it looks like it'll be a nice tool; since the damage is good and the knockback is guaranteed, it's pretty handy as a control tool, but on large teams, you might want something else as a backup.
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Sadly yes.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Been a while since I last checked but are they still REALLY merging night fall and torrent completely failing the best AOE synergy of the set?
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
I've been playing around with it a Dark/Mental on test, and it's actually worked pretty well, though given the secondary, I've more or less been able to replace Night Fall with Psychic Scream (skipping Umbral Torrent completely). The Life Drain buff is pretty freakin' nice, even with just SOs. Abyssal Gaze'll need some Frankenslotting, but will be extremely potent when slotted properly (I'm so far just using SOs).
I can't see it doing too well as a Blapper set, and as has been mentioned, that means no real synergy with Darkness Manipulation, but it seems like a solid set on its own. I'll also say that while I skipped Umbral Torrent given my secondary, it looks like it'll be a nice tool; since the damage is good and the knockback is guaranteed, it's pretty handy as a control tool, but on large teams, you might want something else as a backup. |
@Oathbound
@Oathbound Too
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I've been having good times on test with my Dark/MM Blaster as well. I'll definitely roll one on live. Life Drain is great and Psychic Scream replaced Night Fall for me. Good stuff. It's a very magic-y feeling combination of sets if you care about concept at all.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
I've been playing around with it a Dark/Mental on test, and it's actually worked pretty well, though given the secondary, I've more or less been able to replace Night Fall with Psychic Scream (skipping Umbral Torrent completely). The Life Drain buff is pretty freakin' nice, even with just SOs. Abyssal Gaze'll need some Frankenslotting, but will be extremely potent when slotted properly (I'm so far just using SOs).
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You know, just to throw this out there - I had a whole mess of crepes this morning. They're just like pancakes, maybe even better.
it's still pretty lame they should people the cones at least. or just get rid of the knockback or as I mentioned make it knockdown. was really looking forward to the awesome combo of a dark/energy blapper cause I was waiting for this 
but they completely just ruined it. planning to use the single target backs to fill in dark's lack of ST damage. good AoE before this change AoE power boosted decrees and heal . now that's all ruined Devs REALLY messed up by doing that
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Dark Blast got Psi'd.
I find it difficult to ever justify rolling either a Dark/ or Psi/ blaster over a corruptor with a more direct port of the original defender set. Or even a defender outright. I'd have to really, really love one of the blaster secondaries to even consider it.
On the bright side, as an electric blaster, I'll have lots and lots of company on the bottom tier for a few weeks before the shiny on Dark/ wears off.
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People the cones? Whut?|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
it's still pretty lame they should people the cones at least. or just get rid of the knockback or as I mentioned make it knockdown.
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Anyway, if it were just a chance for the effect, I might see making it into knockdown, but the fact that it does Knockback 100% means it's clearly meant as a good control that also happens to do good AoE damage. In that regard, making it knockdown would make it less useful as a control/survival tool. Similarly, if it was the only AoE, that might be one thing, but Tentacles still plugs along nicely.
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was really looking forward to the awesome combo of a dark/energy blapper cause I was waiting for this but they completely just ruined it. planning to use the single target backs to fill in dark's lack of ST damage. good AoE before this change AoE power boosted decrees and heal . now that's all ruined Devs REALLY messed up by doing that
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Oh and the "decrees" to the heal? It actually heals more on a Blaster than a Defender or Corruptor, and deals a greater proportion of damage, to boot.
If you want AoE/damage king, there are plenty of sets that can pull that off. Dark is about control and survivability, and it's looking great to me from that approach. Most of your beef seems to be that the set doesn't meet your expectations, but honestly, those expectations don't sound like anything remotely close to what Dark Blast was in the first place.
Also, side note. Y'know what sucks? Having to retype a post three times because of that durn logout bug.
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There's a trick for that, just copy-paste the text before you Submit Reply.|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Also, side note. Y'know what sucks? Having to retype a post three times because of that durn logout bug.
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Also, Dark Blast is pretty solid with all those ST attacks, including a hold and a heal with fairly decent range (60ft for lifedrain, 70ft for the hold, 80ft for the tier1/2 attacks).
Don't read too much into the kb in the cone, because it's 100% chance at 80ft range, and since every mob gets pushed back they all end up relatively close to each other (barring anyone you fail to hit). Knockdown would obviously be better, but the real problem would be if it had something like 60% chance to knockback, which would cause them to spread.
100% knockback is good on paper, and it's certainly good for soloing.
But if 100% knockback doesn't save the lower-damage-but-faster-recharging Shockwave from "skip this power" status in builds, how does it save Umbral Torrent? Or, if people start saying Umbral Torrent is the bee's knees, should Shockwave still get the cold shoulder?
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It's the 80ft range that's the problem IMO. You've got an extremely long and fairly narrow cone that knocks mobs away from you, that's supposed to be part of your AoE attack chain... when your only OTHER AoE is another cone with HALF the range.|
Originally Posted by Zemblanity
Don't read too much into the kb in the cone, because it's 100% chance at 80ft range, and since every mob gets pushed back they all end up relatively close to each other (barring anyone you fail to hit). Knockdown would obviously be better, but the real problem would be if it had something like 60% chance to knockback, which would cause them to spread.
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It doesn't. Make. Sense.
@Oathbound
@Oathbound Too
Does this mean Dark/EM will be the bees knees? I was reading about a vampire build that made Power Boost perma to buff the heal but doesn't it also buff the -ToHit? Also the Boost Range should make the cone immobilize easier to wield, eh?
It's probably the combo I'll aim for as I've never touched Dark Blast and I want to focus on that aspect of the character. And I love a good specialty character, this one focusing particularly on life drain...
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Ranged boosted Tenebrous Tentacles comes out to ~64feet(assuming no range slotting in the power itself), which definitely makes it easier to utilize the two cones together... at least for 1 of the 7 possible Dark/* combinations.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Does this mean Dark/EM will be the bees knees? I was reading about a vampire build that made Power Boost perma to buff the heal but doesn't it also buff the -ToHit? Also the Boost Range should make the cone immobilize easier to wield, eh?
It's probably the combo I'll aim for as I've never touched Dark Blast and I want to focus on that aspect of the character. And I love a good specialty character, this one focusing particularly on life drain... |
I think the most reasonable Dark/ builds are going to be Dark/Energy and Dark/Psi. Energy gives you the added range to make ATorrent's Knockback not conflict so much with Tentacles. Psi gives you an extra cone so you can just skip ATorrent.
I'm firmly of the opinion that Abyssal Torrent was poorly thought out. ("Let's take one of the set's primary AoEs and staple on a power most people skip, with an effect many people can't freaking stand!" "That's a GREAT idea!")
@Oathbound
@Oathbound Too
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I think the biggest difference is in the ATs that get them. Shockwave is available only to Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers, who are all based around doing damage in melee. Knocking enemies out of that range doesn't do much for you, and in some cases, actually hurts you, since in 2/3 of those also have defensive powers that depend on having enemies bunched around you.|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
But if 100% knockback doesn't save the lower-damage-but-faster-recharging Shockwave from "skip this power" status in builds, how does it save Umbral Torrent? Or, if people start saying Umbral Torrent is the bee's knees, should Shockwave still get the cold shoulder?
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On the other hand, Umbral Torrent is given to Blasters, who are focused on doing damage regardless of the enemy's range, and rely in major part on what control effects they can find in order to stay alive. Yes, that means you're going to have to be careful when you use it. However, that's still doing better than Shockwave.
For what it's worth, I agree it's not the best setup. But presumably the devs didn't want to duplicate Nightfall from the epic pools, so it's what we get. And I stand firm by the idea that it does better overall than plain ol'Torrent from the other sets, at least.
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Shockwave is a power in the Sonic Blast set. (as well as the Claws set)
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
I think the biggest difference is in the ATs that get them. Shockwave is available only to Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers, who are all based around doing damage in melee. Knocking enemies out of that range doesn't do much for you, and in some cases, actually hurts you, since in 2/3 of those also have defensive powers that depend on having enemies bunched around you.
On the other hand, Umbral Torrent is given to Blasters, who are focused on doing damage regardless of the enemy's range, and rely in major part on what control effects they can find in order to stay alive. Yes, that means you're going to have to be careful when you use it. However, that's still doing better than Shockwave. For what it's worth, I agree it's not the best setup. But presumably the devs didn't want to duplicate Nightfall from the epic pools, so it's what we get. And I stand firm by the idea that it does better overall than plain ol'Torrent from the other sets, at least. |
@Oathbound
@Oathbound Too
I think they meant Sonic Blast/Shockwave as opposed to Claws/Shockwave.
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Ah, yeah, chalk that up to a big "d'oh!". For what it's worth, I like Sonic's Shockwave.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound_Too
Shockwave is a power in the Sonic Blast set. (as well as the Claws set)
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It wasn't going to be an aoe "king" but now its aoe is going to be much more limited. The ST hold, even with damage I could have done without, especially with the Life Drain change, those 3 would have been more than enough ST damage, but now the set's lame in the aoe department for a set that only has cones for the aoe.|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
People the cones? Whut?
If you want AoE/damage king, there are plenty of sets that can pull that off. Dark is about control and survivability, and it's looking great to me from that approach. Most of your beef seems to be that the set doesn't meet your expectations, but honestly, those expectations don't sound like anything remotely close to what Dark Blast was in the first place. Also, side note. Y'know what sucks? Having to retype a post three times because of that durn logout bug. |
And yeah that bug SUCKS!
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Its sort of a bummer that Nightfall got torrent'd but whatever, that just gives me room shove in Nightfall from Soul mastery along with soul tentacles.
I am actually playing a Dark/Dark, I played a level bumped one in beta, etc.. And yeah I will be the first to admit they don't exactly compliment each other but its fun as hell to play jumping around planning how/where to use my hold so I don't die when soul draining, and to be honest I am rather happy how the set has gained a lot of ST damage. It was one of the downsides to dark/ /dark since forever.
Darkpit+run into the mob w/ opp. gloom+souldrain+judgement/blackstar+ Pop blue/dark consumption , run to next mob TT+SoulTent+Nightfall and so on. Fun times.
Very happy to see Dark/Dark proliferated over to Blasters. Haven't really gotten out of the gate on playing mine yet, however; I'm looking at YOU, Real Life Concerns! Reading here and elsewhere, it seems that there's little or no synergy between the primary and secondary. Maybe even a little working at cross-purposes going on, to boot.
Okay, fine, so long as I can use the Dark primary for a Blaster. Some folks are saying Energy Manipulation as a secondary (have used many times, and like), and some folks are saying Mental Manipulation (have used once, on my current main, actually). One or two folks have even mentioned Fire.
Intended uses for my blaster: mostly soloing and duoing, since I've gotten into the habit the past couple of years. I think teams are fun, but I'll have to fight my own tendencies to join them more often than I do now (which is, as stated, almost never these days).
What would you recommend as a secondary? Energy? Mental? Fire? Something else? I'm especially interested in why you'd use your suggested secondary with Dark Blast as a primary.
Thanks for any and all suggestions and advice!
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McClane: That's what makes you "that guy."
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Been a while since I last checked but are they still REALLY merging night fall and torrent completely failing the best AOE synergy of the set?
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