Let's Discuss: Comprehensive PB Proposal

This may have been brought up somewhere on the forums in the past, but I think a simple resolution to this issue would be the implementation of -KB IOs. Seriously, I would buy one if such a thing existed. I would buy many as long as they were not unique and only allowed you to slot one per build. Every person of every AT would finally have the option to remove KB from a power if they did not want it...and could afford the IO.

Where this IO would be slotted becomes somewhat of a technical issue though. It would seem odd to have a -KB effect in the KB enhancement category, as you wouldn't want any of those IOs to enhance KB effects. Perhaps they could be made into 2 separate IO sets for PBAoE damage and Targeted AoE damage. The "proc" enhancement of each set being one that changes the KB effect of the power to KD. If the power doesn't have any KB effect, it could either add KD or at least a chance for KD.

To me this seems like a win-win scenario. Not just for Kheldians either, but for everyone in the game. Those who want to keep their KB can do so and not have to change their current power slottings or playstyle to adjust to new changes, and the rest of us who would have changed it anyways could now do so.

When solo, the HEATs get a Defender-like bonus as if one of each AT were playing with them. They lose 1/2 with each player that joins them (so it goes away with 2).

This bonus stays if Peacebringers and Warshades team together with no other ATs play with them. This means a team of 4 PBs and 4 WS would each act as if one of each AT were playing with them as far as Cosmic Balance is concerned.


When teamed option 1: Each Peacebringer provides +2.5 percent defense to all but psionics and a 10 percent bonus to healing powers to the rest of the team (not themselves). Each Warshade provides +10 accuracy and +5 recharge to the rest of the team (not themselves). These bonuses will buff other Kheldians.

When teamed option 2: PB/WS give back 1 bonus per AT to entire the team that they themselves get from Cosmic Balance. That one bonus (mez protection, damage resistance, etc.) is fixed regardless of the number of Kheldians on team, but you do get one bonus from a WS and one from a PB as they seem like both sides to a coin to me.

Avoiding the rest of it the KB debate, because I actually like Geko and would like to *not* feel like strangling him. Though i will say:

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To Bill, I'd ask you to compromise a little. You listed *one* scenario that works for *you*

A couple, actually, that I can articulate plainly. I use it throughout gameplay... as "anti-scatter," typically. Needless to say I find it *extremely* annoying to be told that no, I don't actually use it that way and something that doesn't do the same thing would be better, by someone who has never played with me.

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Originally Posted by _Ethereal_ I posted this in another thread just recently, and it is applicable here too. It is a little heavy on changes though, so take it as you will. 1) Make Kheldians more similar to Soldiers of Arachnos. When you create a kheldian, have them go from level 1 to level 24 in "human form," like you would a VEAT.

There's not enough "Hell no" in any language, any civilization, any life form that exists, may exist or has existed throughout the life of the universe to represent my reaction to this sort of idea. It's one of the things I hate about VEATs.

<tangent>

IF they'd moved the branching earlier - say level 10 - on those, kept those first few basic powers and used it to select which way you want after, I'd have had no problem with it. As an idea for a mechanic, I was ok with it in beta. In play? I feel like if I'm going (for instance) Crab/Bane, I'm wasting 23 levels, and if I'm going Huntsman, I'm forced into a respec I don't want/need.
</tangent>
And I *certainly* don't want the option of going triform taken away from me.

That said, it's a radical enough change to the AT that it has a less-than-zero chance of ever being even slightly considered.

See my Guides and Tutorials

After looking through the suggestions here I thought I'd add my input on how to improve the PB.

Inherent Power: Cosmic Balance
The current structure of Cosmic Balance makes the bonuses from the power vary based on the team composition. This introduces a high level of variability in character performance during a play session. A bonus can swing as much as +0% to +70%. The player cannot count on a consistent level of bonus from team to team.

Change the power to a linear progression that includes +Damage, +Damage Resistance, +Recharge Slow Resistance, +Mez Protection for each team member regardless of their AT type. Scale the progression to add +10% Damage, +5% Damage Resistance and Recharge Slow Resistance, and +0.5 Mag Status Protection for each team member on the team. Therefore, a full team would provide +70% Damage, +35% Damage Resistance and Recharge Slow Resistance, and +3.5 Mag Status Protection to the PB.


Shapeshift Powers
The transition into the forms is slow, and causes a substantial toggle interruption for the player. To mitigate these issues the forms should perform like a costume change for cosmetic appearance alteration. To accompany that change, the power effects in the primary powers would be restricted or enhanced based on the form selected, all Power Pool powers would still provide their effects to the character, and all enhancements would provide their bonuses normally.


For example, when in a Bright Nova form the following would happen:

• The character would instantaneously change appearance into the Bright Nova model.
• The Bright Nova power acts as a toggle, and costs Endurance.
• Melee powers would be grayed out as unavailable, but the enhancements slotted in those powers would continue to affect the character.
• All of the ranged powers in the Luminous Blast powerset would become available for use (including the powers that were not selected for use in Human Form). The ranged powers selected for “Human Form” continue to provide their slotted enhancement bonuses. The powers without slots gain the bonus listed below.
• A bonus of +100% Damage (or a statistically derived %) is applied to all ranged powers. This above and beyond any bonuses gained from slotted enhancements.
• The inherent Flight powers would be set to an “always on” condition. The player could select between Combat Flight and Energy Flight, but they must always have one of the powers active.
• Ground movement powers would be grayed out, but any enhancements placed in those powers would continue to affect the character.
• Light Form would work normally. It would interrupt this form.
• Photon Seekers can be used in this form.

• The character would instantaneously change appearance into the Bright Dwarf model.
• The Bright Dwarf form acts as a toggle, and cost Endurance.
• Ranged powers would be grayed out as unavailable, but the enhancements slotted in those powers would continue to affect the character.
• All of the Melee and PBAoE powers in the Luminous Blast powerset would become available for use (including the powers that were not selected for use in Human Form). The melee powers selected for “Human Form” continue to provide their slotted enhancement bonuses. The powers without slots gain the bonus listed below.
• A bonus of +10% Damage (or a statistically derived %) is applied to all Melee powers. This above and beyond any bonuses gained from slotted enhancements.
• A bonus of +35% Damage Resistance (or a statistically derived %) is applied for all damage types. This adds to any selected toggle powers that are active.
• A bonus of +12.5 Mag Status Resistance is added to the character with the form toggle is active.
• The inherent Flight powers would be set to an “always off” condition.
• A teleport self power would be activated while in the form. This power is not able to be enhanced.
• A single target taunt would be activated while in the form. This power is not able to be enhanced.
• Light Form would work normally. It would interrupt this form.
• Photon Seekers can be used in this form.

• Reduce the Recharge Time by 25%
• Reduce the Endurance Cost by 15%

• Reduce the Recharge Time to by 25%
• Reduce the Endurance Cost by 15%
• Change the KB to KD. Enhancements could be used to increase the KD into KB.

• The seekers duration would remain unchanged.
• The pet window would open for command and control of the pet.
• The pets have similar ranged attacks and damage as the WS Dark Extraction power.
• A new “go to my target and detonate” command would be added to the pet command window. The PS detonate damage remains the same as it is today.

I don't find solar flare hard to use. At all.

With that said I would not mind it's change from KB to KD or KU.

with that said such a change would be incredibly unimpressive without some of the other changes folks have listed.

After sleeping on it I feel that Solar Flare would be better as KU then KD as I posted earlier. Seems the energy coming up from the "earth" should do KU. Not that big of a change but I think it makes a diff.

Occurred to me recently:

-Combat Flight currently has only positional defense, unlike Hover, so it needs typed defenses added to it.
-Make Solar Flare somehow usable while in the air. Seriously, we have inherent flight and hover, the latter of which is ostensibly to be used in combat (thus "Combat Flight"), but we can't use Solar Flare with it turned on... Just another synergy problem.

Nope, I haven't.
1: It's never a constant.
2: In normal gameplay, I'm far more likely to use shockwave for the joy of seeing the baddies get knocked around the battlefield than I am to use it strategically.
3: When I do care about kill speed efficiency with aoes, I don't use it. The only time I care about kill speed efficiency when aoes are involved is when I'm farming with my claws/fa brute in AE and then I'm playing in a way I would find abhorrent in normal play.

In the end, it's so easy to steamroll the content from 1 to 50 when on teams that I just can't bring myself to care about whether enemies are being knocked around or whether I'm utilizing every power to 100% efficiency. That extra 5 minutes per TF/SF just isn't important to me.

The number crunching, DPS tracking, minmaxing builds, etc is for when I solo. When teamed, I'd be happy running around with energy blasters, storm defenders and peacebringers. That's how little knockback bothers me.

So to answer your question directly: What will kill an enemy faster? Use shockwave (damage) to push them into a burn patch (more damage) and then use spin on them (more damage) or leave them where they're at and just use spin? I'd bet #1 wins, but I don't know. Too many variables.

Seems like the conversation's died down a little bit. I'd like everyone to take a look at the OP and comment on the points that are in the proposal so far. Some of them are pretty general so more discussion is definitely needed.

And if the list seems short it's because I've only added things that seem to be backed by everyone thus far. Points of conflict have been intentionally excluded until we can agree on some sort of working compromise.

Love the animations on the peace bringers they are among the best in the game and all in one set. Hate how the set plays, I never make it past late 20s before deleting them. I like the plethora of options but find they lack follow through/power. It is just such a let down to come flying into melee, transform, unload some incredible melee attacks and not kill a Lt and be forced to run/heal/turtle/scatter/pillpop.

The rage clone is a good idea, but if you do that and put knockdown in solar flare making those the defining properties of the set, why wouldn't I just play my Super strength characters? The set needs a change that keeps its unique flavor while raising their baseline performance which is just awful currently.

Just a guess but I would suspect a lot of the objection to changing the current PB powers is they do have a unique look and feel to them in the game. How to sustain that and increase the baseline performance is the question.


Crazy Idea Time: (NOT all of the following)

1. Global Power section-a group of core powers that are useful in all forms. Wouldn't this be doable, somewhat akin to the Incarnate Powers? This would require juggling and probably developing new powers or the squid form would get too powerful. Simply importing the heals, buildup, conserve power would appear to skew too strongly to the squid form. Also SOA have that odd power tree organization wouldnt something similar work in Peacebringers?

a. Also you could make all the powers knockdown and add like a global power to amplify secondary effects (power boost maybe???). This would let you turn knockdown into knockback with the click of a button. Not sure it currently works this way though.

b. The swap ammo power might be a better way to do this, brilliant thought Evil Gecko. Energy channeling-stuns to all powers, Might-knockback, Energy drain-debuffs to all powers (Would avoid increase in damage, that would be the responsibility of the buildup power or change if any)


2. I love the shields look but being resistance with no status protection is useless, so keep animations and make defense or switch them to passives (lower values) and let the passives carry over into forms.

What do you guys think? Too much magic herb on a saturday morning?

One thing I'd like to see. I'd like to see the mez protection brought by Dwarf actually clear mez timers. This way if I'm held as a human or nova, I could double-shift and not still be held.

Not sure how that'd affect balance. But it'd be nice during really nasty, chunky fights to be able to toggle human, hit my double heal/+HP, then swap back without having to worry that my human form is going to have an unexpired Hold take over.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Bill, I guess the question is, are two minds in one body Stronger, or Weaker against Psionic damage/control?

<aside>
AshWind and everyone else who thinks this is a good idea: Please stop. The VEAT build-tree is a Curse, not a blessing.

The Devs are NOT going to do a fundamental re-write of the whole Kheldian AT. Keldians are 'epic' because they have a strong storyline that is fundamental to the game. To change the nature of Kheldians would require retconning the whole game - it's Not going to happen!

What's more, those of us who Like Kheldians actually Like the way they work and we'd hunt you down and neuter you with a dull spoon, if you tried to make Kheldians into a clone of VEATs.
</aside>

Anyway, I honestly do like the idea that there ought to be some basic powers that carry over to the forms, besides Inherent Fitness. Frankly, I don't really see why the shields Don't carry over - Except that they could conceivably make Human form redundant and make Nova and Dwarf rather OP. I also don't see why Pool Powers don't carry over into the Forms, since they are independent of the core AT - No other AT has to go without their Pool Powers during the course of doing what they do.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Agreed. VEATs are great and all but there's not a chance in hell I'd wanna see Kheldians cludged into something like them.

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Originally Posted by IronAlex ... fix the inherants and raise dmg... there kheldians fix

This is pretty much the meat of it as far as I can tell. We can (And probably will) go back and forth for days about all the rest but these points are indisputable.

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Originally Posted by IronAlex its not that difficult

Unfortunately this part is. Really, you can't talk about adjusting damage without considering Cosmic Balance. For good or ill, you've gotta balance PBs around it.

The up side to that is it means you can effectively kill two birds with one stone. I think we can all agree that our inherent is unfairly balanced toward teaming. It does absolutely nothing for us solo and, with Vigilance now adjusted, it's the only remaining inherent that does so. So let's focus on that first. Taking into account all the suggestions that have already been made, how can Cosmic Balance be changed to benefit us solo without making Kheldians OP on teams?

My thoughts.. buff the damage a bit.. and remove the knockback to knockdown... please at leas on the Solar Flare.. its just annoying...

You could also change the Pulsar animation... its too long for what it does...