Still Sexism in costume choices? Really?
By
Adar_ICT,
Posted on: 2011-06-02 05:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The fat-hobo-in-a-blanket look? I've not seen it anywhere in NYC - except on fat hobos |
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Then I probably shouldn't tell you it's coming back in style.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Like I said. By today's standards |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'd rage too if I was told that was fashionable
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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That's basically the point of your traditional (read : hereditary) monarchies. They can make silly (or unpopular) decisions because they don't face re-election.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I still seem to be alive - and I still seem to regard his outfit as bad
Monarchies are silly, and they don't even seem to try and hide it |
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Try Topshop |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The fat-hobo-in-a-blanket look? I've not seen it anywhere in NYC - except on fat hobos
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Let's Dance!
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This one doesn't work as well as the rest, because there is something wrong with being stupid and it is something that can be changed.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
To say that something isn't done because that would be stupid is saying there is something wrong with being stupid.
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"YOU DID NOT READ THE THREAD. GO READ THE LONG, LONG THREAD.
Then, perhaps your butt cheeks will relinquish their grip on your chin." -The_Zekiran
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I prefer Macy's |
Originally Posted by reiella
Try Topshop
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I guess it would depend on the type of stupid then.
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Originally Posted by MortisEques
This one doesn't work as well as the rest, because there is something wrong with being stupid and it is something that can be changed.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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No, there is always something wrong with being stupid. Most people are at least smart enough to go about correcting the problem, and those who willingly don't correct the problem are on an entirely different level of stupid.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I guess it would depend on the type of stupid then.
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"YOU DID NOT READ THE THREAD. GO READ THE LONG, LONG THREAD.
Then, perhaps your butt cheeks will relinquish their grip on your chin." -The_Zekiran
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/yar
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And give us parrots so we can complete our pirate costumes.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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That is what I term aggressively stupid. That is the kind of stupid you have to apply effort to achieve. |
Originally Posted by MortisEques
No, there is always something wrong with being stupid. Most people are at least smart enough to go about correcting the problem, and those who willingly don't correct the problem are on an entirely different level of stupid.
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I would use Jackass: The Movie as an example.
It's also the kind of stupid that I don't have any sympathy for.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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Not if you're born that way.
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Originally Posted by MortisEques
This one doesn't work as well as the rest, because there is something wrong with being stupid and it is something that can be changed.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
We've most certainly conveyed feedback received about equity in costume piece choices. What was communicated to me is that many of the pieces that are gender specific are usually done in that manner so as to allow for greater variety in character design options, in addition to accounting for production time, value and scope. (plainly said, more costume pieces mean more time in development which means less packs less frequently. Even if it's the same costume piece, it's and entirely "new" piece if we port it to different body types i.e.; male, female, huge). That being said, our character artists, such as Cheryl, are hearing requests for items such as more coat options for females and the like and will certainly take that into account with future new costume options.
We are committed to providing you all with a diverse range of costume design options, regardless of your body type or gender .
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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Fine with me if it means fewer costume pieces overall. This policy of giving each gender separate costume pieces in each pack is flawed, in my opinion. Not having asexual costume pieces inevitably leads to sexism and oversexualization in the costume options. Males get the respectable/cool looking outfits, and then women get all of the skimpy outfits because we can't double up on respectable/cool costumes in a pack.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
plainly said, more costume pieces mean more time in development which means less packs less frequently. Even if it's the same costume piece, it's and entirely "new" piece if we port it to different body types
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EDIT: I realize that fewer packs means a drop in sales figures. If more options in a pack is not an option, then I am firmly placing my vote on the side of "more parity in the costume options, even if it means less variety overall".
Someday, I'd be curious to see an explanation of how "men get awesome looking coats and women get lingerie" translates into a "greater variety in character design options." Were players really hurting for more ways to make female characters in their underwear? Wouldn't the greater variety be for women to get the cool looking Steampunk coat this time, while men got a steel codpiece?
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The last thing this game needs right now is more coats.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
. That being said, our character artists, such as Cheryl, are hearing requests for items such as more coat options for females and the like and will certainly take that into account with future new costume options.
We are committed to providing you all with a diverse range of costume design options, regardless of your body type or gender . |
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
I'm certainly not against things like women in long coats... but...
Seriously, people. Probably 60-70% of my characters are females and none of them are running around in "lingerie". One is wearing something you'd call "skimpy" and that's because it's derivative of a tribal style costume. If Paragon city is full of women in fishnets and Eden tops, it's because people chose to design them that way (and there's a long comics tradition for it). Conversely, I don't know if I've ever seen the "leather straps" chest used on a male character that didn't include purple butterfly wings and the "big grin" face, pink afro, clashing colored Speedos and a hook hand (You're the first to ever do that! Hooray!!)
Heck, I used the Steampunk parts to make a country-style dress for a new character. You're not required to leave it as bare skin under the corset tops, you know.
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Popped-collar trenchcoats would be nice. I'm sure The Dark Watcher approves. |
Originally Posted by Sermon
The last thing this game needs right now is more coats.
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None of mine do either. Which is why it's so frustrating when 90% of the new costume items in a pack are bras, corsets, high heels and tiny jackets that don't even come past the clavicle.
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
I'm certainly not against things like women in long coats... but...
Seriously, people. Probably 60-70% of my characters are females and none of them are running around in "lingerie". |
I personally have no problem making them work. Your mileage may vary.
First of all, thanks for passing along our concerns.
I'm a little confused about the idea that making an entirely new costume piece is easier than modifying a male coat into a female coat. Standard Design Rant applies, of course.
I really hope the design team will consider adding things to previously released packs.
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I think this is an example of a general problem of not understanding the difference between "equivalency" and "Variety" They are not mutually exclusive ideas.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
We've most certainly conveyed feedback received about equity in costume piece choices. What was communicated to me is that many of the pieces that are gender specific are usually done in that manner so as to allow for greater variety in character design options, in addition to accounting for production time, value and scope. (plainly said, more costume pieces mean more time in development which means less packs less frequently. Even if it's the same costume piece, it's and entirely "new" piece if we port it to different body types i.e.; male, female, huge). That being said, our character artists, such as Cheryl, are hearing requests for items such as more coat options for females and the like and will certainly take that into account with future new costume options.
We are committed to providing you all with a diverse range of costume design options, regardless of your body type or gender . |
"Equivalency" can be seen in the Magic Bolero trenchcoat and the regular trenchcoat. The regular trenchcoat is available to everyone. So only female models get a fancy trenchcoat with X pattern, but every model can use a trenchcoat.
Variety Means there's difference in the parts available. In the magic Bolero/Trenchcoat example, both parts are different, but the core is the same an thus equivalent.
In this case we are dealing with the problem of "men get long coats and women get... bustiers and corsets" Women could get all kinds of different long coat designs that are still distinct from the ones male models get.
As long as men and women get te same "Core" options, they can have different patterns and designs and little touches.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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Originally Posted by Garent
Fine with me if it means fewer costume pieces overall. This policy of giving each gender separate costume pieces in each pack is flawed, in my opinion. Not having asexual costume pieces inevitably leads to sexism and oversexualization in the costume options. Males get the respectable/cool looking outfits, and then women get all of the skimpy outfits because we can't double up on respectable/cool costumes in a pack.
EDIT: I realize that fewer packs means a drop in sales figures. If more options in a pack is not an option, then I am firmly placing my vote on the side of "more parity in the costume options, even if it means less variety overall". |
Disagree completely. Your proposed policy would be more flawed than the one they're using.
If you spend the time to make "shoulder kittens" universal for all models- something that has VERY little widespread appeal- rather than an asset that DOES have wider appeal to the male side, you're wasting resources. (I wouldn't mind a shoulder kitten, but that's another story)
What I do wish the devs WOULD address is possibly consider making more 'general use" versions of some of the more interesting pieces coming out. Things like the "magical bolero" are nice, but very specific in their style because of the level of detail.
- Give an option (for the same sex) with a simple collar and less detailed cape. It would mesh with a LOT more of the art assets then.
- How about a non-leather-textured coat?
- The new "steampunk" skirt could make a nice slinky 1-piece dress with a simple" with skin" top... except it only really works when its set to black.
- The veteran "samurai" armor has excellent styles to it, but smooth one using the geometry with solid colors could be used in many places where the ornate designs just conflict.
We just have so many "unique geometry" pieces that look GREAT but just seem to have so much more mixing potential if they'd also have a version that matched the pre-existing colors and textures. Rather than re-develop them for other genders, I'd much rather flesh out the existing mesh with different patterns.
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This pretty much lines up with my thoughts on the matter. I'm all for expanding costume options, but if it takes longer and produces pieces that very few people will actually use then I don't see the point.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
What was communicated to me is that many of the pieces that are gender specific are usually done in that manner so as to allow for greater variety in character design options, in addition to accounting for production time, value and scope. (plainly said, more costume pieces mean more time in development which means less packs less frequently. Even if it's the same costume piece, it's and entirely "new" piece if we port it to different body types i.e.; male, female, huge).
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@Demobot
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