Still Sexism in costume choices? Really?
By
Adar_ICT,
Posted on: 2011-06-02 05:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Heck, women get an entire section to themselves (Tops w/ skin) which includes detailed parts like the bridal tops, the "Plus" tops, etc plus all the tights detail options. If if you want to grumble about them being "sexy", it's a lot more options than male characters get.
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None of these look like Steampunk outfits to me.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
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The BrandX Collection
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Well that's probably because steampunk just raids Victorian fashion for some aesthetic details and isolated elements rather than accurately emulating it.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
None of these look like Steampunk outfits to me.
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Anyone who wants accurate versions of Victorian fashion should ask for a Victorian pack because you're not going to find it in actual steampunk fashions. (Of course it's possible that people will show up at steampunk themed events in accurate Victorian, Edwardian, or even Medieval clothing. It's still not typical of the subculture.)
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Ironically, when people complained about the Steampunk booster color palette being "Brown, Gray & Brown-Gray", we had several people telling us that it wouldn't be historically authentic to have (gasp!) colors in there because, I dunno, color hadn't been invented yet by the Victorian era or something.
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That was my point basically. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Well that's probably because steampunk just raids Victorian fashion for some aesthetic details and isolated elements rather than accurately emulating it.
Anyone who wants accurate versions of Victorian fashion should ask for a Victorian pack because you're not going to find it in actual steampunk fashions. (Of course it's possible that people will show up at steampunk themed events in accurate Victorian, Edwardian, or even Medieval clothing. It's still not typical of the subculture.) |
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The BrandX Collection
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Yeah, i know. i should have phrased it to make it more clear that i was agreeing with you. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
That was my point basically.
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As I recall from my historical readings, the Victorians were actually obsessively enamoured of colour, almost to the point of garishness.
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
Ironically, when people complained about the Steampunk booster color palette being "Brown, Gray & Brown-Gray", we had several people telling us that it wouldn't be historically authentic to have (gasp!) colors in there because, I dunno, color hadn't been invented yet by the Victorian era or something.
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Did you see some of the color combinations people were wearing in Gangs of New York...It's like they hit the random button on their closets.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
As I recall from my historical readings, the Victorians were actually obsessively enamoured of colour, almost to the point of garishness.
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Everyone knows the world was in black and white until the 1950s. And all those old Greek buildings and statues were shining white marble. The buildings certainly weren't riots of color and murals everywhere, and the statues weren't painted to look like living people. That would be just silly since there wasn't any color back then. The same applies to the Victorian age; it was before the 1950s, right? Everything was all sepia-toned.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
Ironically, when people complained about the Steampunk booster color palette being "Brown, Gray & Brown-Gray", we had several people telling us that it wouldn't be historically authentic to have (gasp!) colors in there because, I dunno, color hadn't been invented yet by the Victorian era or something.
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Yeah, people tend to buy into popularly propagated stereotypes a little too unquestioningly even when the subject is something they have a special affection for.
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Check out some of these color combinations|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Everyone knows the world was in black and white until the 1950s. And all those old Greek buildings and statues were shining white marble. The buildings certainly weren't riots of color and murals everywhere, and the statues weren't painted to look like living people. That would be just silly since there wasn't any color back then. The same applies to the Victorian age; it was before the 1950s, right? Everything was all sepia-toned.
Yeah, people tend to buy into popularly propagated stereotypes a little too unquestioningly even when the subject is something they have a special affection for. |
Heck, even the 1940's were pretty colorful...
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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Err, no one has a long coat. The trenchoat is the only long-ish coat there is, and it's both male and female.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
People wanted a long coat for females. Which is fine and understandable but people have also been asking for corset type pieces for years so to complain that we got one instead of the other (and this means the Devs didn't listen) is a little bizarre.
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I'd love a long coat, by the way. But there just isnt one (probably due to clipping issues)
A long coat, a real robe and a floor-length skirt would make my life complete when it comes to costume parts, but we're not likely to get them
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
When it comes to the "colour" of the Steampunk pack, I'm not really upset that it was designed around brown Steampunk, but more so that options for OTHER colour schemes weren't given to much of it. The point of costume Boosters is greater customization, and that sort of assumes that you'd be able to customize those pieces in ways not necessarily consistent with the singular inspiration that created them.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Okay, yeah, that i agree with.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
When it comes to the "colour" of the Steampunk pack, I'm not really upset that it was designed around brown Steampunk, but more so that options for OTHER colour schemes weren't given to much of it. The point of costume Boosters is greater customization, and that sort of assumes that you'd be able to customize those pieces in ways not necessarily consistent with the singular inspiration that created them.
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Not to mention that a fair number of steampunk makers work in well polished metal and lacquered wood, not corroded old junk. The backpack and wings would be at least as steampunk with bright, shiny colors.
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i make stuff...
Sexism? Simple answer...MEN don't wear dresses.
I do however agree with some of the ideas presented here. There should be more cross gender pieces, after all, as bad as it was, Robin did originally wear a tunic and short boots.
The darkness is feared for a reason.
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Like most simple answers it is dead wrong.|
Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight
Sexism? Simple answer...MEN don't wear dresses.
I do however agree with some of the ideas presented here. There should be more cross gender pieces, after all, as bad as it was, Robin did originally wear a tunic and short boots. |
Or are you pulling the "no true Scotsman" card?
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Men in dresses were key players in the fall of Communism.|
Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight
Sexism? Simple answer...MEN don't wear dresses.
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Of course, you might say that's an aberration. In order to show that men do indeed wear dresses, there would have be proof from all cultures throughout all of time.
OK.
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Nitpick: Neo's wearing a coat, over a shirt and pants, in that scene.
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"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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Whoa.
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Originally Posted by Furio
Nitpick: Neo's wearing a coat, over a shirt and pants, in that scene.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
You had to include a picture of a guy with a fuzzy green codpiece? Also... it isn't an entirely traditional codpiece. It's really more of a phallus.
Tunics, kilts, togas, etc, are not dresses.
The darkness is feared for a reason.
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I really didn't notice... but it did look a bit too phallic for the boards so I zapped it.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
You had to include a picture of a guy with a fuzzy green codpiece? Also... it isn't an entirely traditional codpiece. It's really more of a phallus.
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Originally Posted by Furio
Nitpick: Neo's wearing a coat, over a shirt and pants, in that scene.
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It is a plain black version of the house dress:
Wearing pants or leggings or a leotard or bloomers under a dress doesn't make the dress a coat:
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"No true Scotsman", got it.
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Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight
Tunics, kilts, togas, etc, are not dresses.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Elaborating a bit on this, they are all clothes that widely and loosely hang about, which is what people usually seek when they say they want "dresses" for men, and there's no reason to withhold them. I'm not sure anyone actually wants a prom dress for men, albeit I do think it would make for interesting (and incomparably hideous, which is however beside the point) characters.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
"No true Scotsman", got it.
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The differences are merely their employment in different cultural settings btw, there are no innate qualities to a kilt that make it more masculine than a regular skirt.
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Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight
Sexism? Simple answer...MEN don't wear dresses.
I do however agree with some of the ideas presented here. There should be more cross gender pieces, after all, as bad as it was, Robin did originally wear a tunic and short boots. |
Lack of "dresses" for men isn't really the only issue here though, there are other costume pieces not available for both sexes and giants, and allegedly a suspiciously high amount of sexy pieces for females (read: fan service for the guys).
Anyway, if you want to build something more modest, layer the costume pieces. You don't have to wear them over keyhole lycra. For an imperfect example of it taken to an extreme:
The problem with any outfit like this of course is that dresses aren't long enough, so you are forced into dealing with the length of the leg. This is a more or less unfixable issue due to how the game works. However, any time you give a model pieces that lace all the way up to the neck, I don't see how you can say it's not adding less modesty rather than more.
Short version: coats would still be nice of course but just because a piece is layerable doesn't mean you have to dress like a streetwalker.
The Steam Pack is an obvious and good example of this.