Post about Incarnate Rewards is coming

Hopefully Zertisgiswick has some Type R programmers who can translate all that stuff for him.

Thanks for the update Posi!


I look forward to reading what you all came up with to resolve the current issues with the rewards system. Hopefully it will address most peoples issues with the Trials.



Ice

Thanks Posi.

Just knowing at what rate we are expected to acquire Rares (Is 8 Empyrean Merits the Metric?) and so on would be a great help.

I only pray that the fix is quick enough to keep those around who have already canceled.

On a serious note, I'm going to summarize what I've said and what I know about the system, before Baryonyx post, just for the record. This is everything I think I know, and the level of uncertainty.

I believe the participation algorithm can be manipulated in theory. But I don't think people really are doing so as reliably as they think they are.

I believe profligate use of AoEs - powers that affect multiple foes - helps. But I'm not sure how. I see no direct correlation between damage dealt and drops. I see no direct correlation between the number of targets I *hit* and drops. But I see a moderate correlation between using them at all, and not using them, separate from those factors. I don't know why.

I am certain the system has a measuring metric (participation) and a random element. Which means I believe even if people think they can game the system, if they are getting *exactly* the same thing over and over there has to be at least some element of luck to that. Across tens of thousands of players, such random incidents can occur.

I don't think the system is zero-sum. In the strict technical sense its possible the players are in indirect competition with each other: if one person killed everything and the rest of the league stood around doing nothing, obviously that person would almost certainly have higher participation. So if a player were to do that they could cut other players out of rewards. However, I do not believe the participation bonuses are strong enough to do that under normal playing conditions.

I don't think taking time to lead or talk seriously hurts your participation.

I do believe the trials are broken down into phases, and participation is measured in them separately and somehow combined.

I believe completing objectives in the trials accrues a bonus to all players, or at least all players nominally involved. For example, I believe Master runs will tend to grant everyone statistically higher drops because the player complete more "objectives." But because of the random element, that is not guaranteed, just more likely.

I believe iXP is calculated separately from the reward drop participation system, and obeys different rules. In particular, I believe iXP is *heavily* ruled by damage output and number of targets affected.


I will note that collectively, some of the above statements contradict reports that players can *reliably* game the system, that indiscriminant tagging without other factors in play has a dramatic effect on the drop table, that pets are a penalty (they might not help, but they are unlikely to hurt by a statistically significant amount), that buffing other players is a penalty (if it is, its miniscule), and that the rewards are zero-sum: if you get the good one, it means you took it from someone else that won't get it, or alternatively if you have a high participation score it can only mean someone else has a commensurately bad one.

It may contradict the devs if they believe the system isn't being gamed, or it may contradict the devs if they believe the system is being trivially gamed. We'll know tomorrow. That puts me in the position of saying I don't think I know what it does, but I'm reasonably sure it does not do what forum consensus thinks it does. Which is not unfamiliar territory.

I would expect that the devs cannot completely rewrite the entire system in one day. So don't expect that miracle. They might have been working on changes since release or even before, and some of those might have been expedited which they may be announcing. Beyond that, I would hope what people are expecting tomorrow is a starting point to discuss the future of the system, not a miracle cure for everything people think is wrong with the system.

Thanks for the heads up... good to know something is in the works.

Thanks to Zwillinger, Baronyx, Posi and everyone else who's felt the flames of Player Wrath this last week. I find myself reserving judgement until we have some more details, however. I think it's been made quite clear that having a clear explanation of exactly how these Incarnate Trial rewards are calculated is essential. Honestly, I think that even a terribly borked reward system would have been met with much less anger and frustration than no clear explanation about the system whatsoever.

I've been here long enough to not jump at most things. I've always maintained my regular playstyle throughout the Trials, and I take more pleasure in doing my job as a Blaster and helping the league succeed overall than trying to game things for my own personal reward. Out of 51 ITrials I've run, I've gotten 2 commons, 1 rare, 47 uncommons, and threads once when I dc'd for several minutes. It's quite obvious I'm not interested in gaming the system. But I had already noticed some resentment toward Blasters even going back to last Friday. Players who knew me had no hesitation inviting me to join a BAF or a Lambda, but I was frequently ignored by Trial leaders I didn't know this last week. Hopefully this new reward system will eliminate the bickering and cutthroat attitude that the current black-box reward system has fostered. We all need to get back to having fun again.


Jo

Thanks for the update. I just hope the changes are enough.

Thanks for the update.

I do hope that some discussion about the MoLambda badge requirements will also begin with the Incarnate Rewards post. I know that issue got overshadowed in the thread stemming from the first post by Baronyx but it's still a very important issue to many of us that needs to be addressed.