City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Discussion: Issue 20: Incarnates

2short2care

By 2short2care,
Posted on: 2011-03-01 24:34 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion

 

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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
No, sweetie, I'm not. i15 put Nazis on the streets for me to run up to and punch. i20 is not putting Loyalists on the streets for me to run up to and punch.
There are already 3 zones that are thick with them. Place called Praetoria. You might have heard of it.

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Also, Loyalists aren't Nazis. Punching electronic representations of real-life evil people is far more enjoyable and satisfying than punching electronic representations of made-up cardboard evil people.
True! Who hasn't read in their history books about the exciting Allied battles against the vampires, werewolves, and giant robots of Nazi Germany (which, oddly, never called themselves Nazis). And I very much enjoy their subtly-shaded,non-cardboard-evil plotlines in CoH. Like that time they wanted to kill people. And that time they wanted to kill more people AND take over the world

 

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
That's great and all, but it's still akin to saying you don't like PvP but still having the expectation that you deserve to have all the PvP badges, temp powers, and rewards without ever stepping into a PvP zone even once.

You're free to not enjoy that new content, but to also have the expectation that you still deserve all the rewards of the incarnate system without actually participating in the majority of it?
There are some similarities with PvP, and yet the PvP situation is very different.

PvP never was the evolution of this game. It was not presented as where you went after 50, though certainly some people viewed it that way. It was "something else you can do", not just what you do after a certain point.

Incarnate content is what you do "after 50" to continue to evolve your character. It mixes all the things PvE players want - new things to do, new rewards, new badges, you name it. What these players are asking for is for it to contain something that's not raid-oriented. Right now it's oversized team raids or basically bust.

Yes, they want a way to unlock incarnate powers without raiding, but that's because they don't want to raid. There's more to that than just wanting the rewards for nothing. Give them something new other than raiding to do that gives reward rates that aren't measured on geologic time scales and I bet almost all of the complaints will disappear.

I am looking forward to raids, but I would love to see something else to do with incarnate stuff, and not next year.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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I was really hoping for some more powerset proliferation, if not a new set or two.
I hope they have some coming down the development pipeline

 

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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
Incarnate content is what you do "after 50" to continue to evolve your character. It mixes all the things PvE players want - new things to do, new rewards, new badges, you name it. What these players are asking for is for it to contain something that's not raid-oriented. Right now it's oversized team raids or basically bust.

Yes, they want a way to unlock incarnate powers without raiding, but that's because they don't want to raid. There's more to that than just wanting the rewards for nothing. Give them something new other than raiding to do that gives reward rates that aren't measured on geologic time scales and I bet almost all of the complaints will disappear.

I am looking forward to raids, but I would love to see something else to do with incarnate stuff, and not next year.
The bolded part is the crux of the Solo/Small team desires. Even myself, who has no Live 50s, can understand that.

There should be eventual Incarnate content that solo or small group players can do and progress through the Incarnate unlocks. The issue isn't about getting the unlocks for nothing, it's about getting them at a rate that is reasonable for non-large team/raiding play.

Thank you for the time...

@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test)

Arc 5299: Magic, Mystery, and Mayhem Updated!! 09/15/09

 

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Originally Posted by Vesper1979 View Post
I was really hoping for some more powerset proliferation, if not a new set or two.
I hope they have some coming down the development pipeline
Well, Castle got a better offer apparently and left; that could easily have put a crimp in any plans they had for putting out new or proliferated powersets. Not that a new round of proliferation wouldn't make me happy.


I want my /Traps Controllers, /Rad Masterminds, Axe Stalkers and /Ice Brutes, darn it !

Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

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Yes do want power proliferation.
I want my Illusion Dominator,
I want my Psychic Blast Corruptor,
I want my Dark Miasma Controller,
I want my Dark Blast Blaster,
I want my whatever I can't think of at the moment.

Cancel the kitchen scraps for widows and lepers, no more merciful beheadings and call off christmas!

 

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Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
Cosmic Cole is stupid. I'd rather fight Rularuu.
I thnik you're totally missing the opportunities this opens up for cosmic scale evil by villain players doing high level loyalists content.
Think Praetorian Portal Corp - for our Portal Corp missions, we go to other dimensions to fight threats or invetsigate potential threats, as well as saving and helping people form other dimensions.
But imagine that as loyalist content, with players becoming Incarnate war leaders in Tyrant's invasion armies, helping him expand his empire across the multiverse.
You could an arc or TF where you literally conquered a world, or totally destroyed one.
You could lead NPC pets like War Walkers to attack cities or military facilities on other worlds - you could take personal charge of assassination operations on leading figures on various worlds who were resisting Tyrant's onslaught - you could have misisons to enslave entire populations, or totally wipe out opposing armies.
Making the multiverse threatening force a human one - which has also allowed players to serve it at lower levels - allows for the possibility of players being able to serve it at higher levels too, and deliver the kind of cosmic evil content that you can't get when working for Recluse.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I thnik you're totally missing the opportunities this opens up for cosmic scale evil by villain players doing high level loyalists content.
Think Praetorian Portal Corp - for our Portal Corp missions, we go to other dimensions to fight threats or invetsigate potential threats, as well as saving and helping people form other dimensions.
But imagine that as loyalist content, with players becoming Incarnate war leaders in Tyrant's invasion armies, helping him expand his empire across the multiverse.
You could an arc or TF where you literally conquered a world, or totally destroyed one.
You could lead NPC pets like War Walkers to attack cities or military facilities on other worlds - you could take personal charge of assassination operations on leading figures on various worlds who were resisting Tyrant's onslaught - you could have misisons to enslave entire populations, or totally wipe out opposing armies.
Making the multiverse threatening force a human one - which has also allowed players to serve it at lower levels - allows for the possibility of players being able to serve it at higher levels too, and deliver the kind of cosmic evil content that you can't get when working for Recluse.
The chances of getting to be that evil I'd put at about 10,000,000 to 1. Much more likely that both Loyalists and Villains will get strongarmed into having to team up with goody two shoes YET AGAIN to save the universe.

Getting to actually fight on Cole's side would go a long way to redeeming this story though in my eyes.





Although, truth be told, I still find Cosmic Cole stupid and I'd rather be fighting Rularuu as well.

@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

 

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Less hacking eyeballs please.

 

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Originally Posted by Dante View Post
The chances of getting to be that evil I'd put at about 10,000,000 to 1. Much more likely that both Loyalists and Villains will get strongarmed into having to team up with goody two shoes YET AGAIN to save the universe.

Getting to actually fight on Cole's side would go a long way to redeeming this story though in my eyes.
Adding Prometheus to the Incarnate situation might be the start of them setting up the system to have two Incarnate paths, one for good people, and one for bad.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Ok logged onto beta and tried to figure out the new powers.
I created a seer lore pet and it is in the right side of the created enhancments, I double clicked it to equip it and it won't equip, keeps saying Lore enhancment won't equip. How do I equip it so I can use it? Also is judgement powers broken? I created a judgement power and it won't equip.

Cancel the kitchen scraps for widows and lepers, no more merciful beheadings and call off christmas!

 

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It's been explicitly stated by the devs that the Praetorian arc isn't the end of the Incarnate content -- it's just the beginning.

Cole still has big secrets hidden. Personally I hope that once players get to topple the Tyrant, and sifting through all of his secrets, we get to board Anti-Matter's space station. Upon which we discover the Terrible Secret of Space.

Which segues nicely into the next series of trials, which will take place in the new space zones.

And then we get to do Cosmic Space Incarnate stiff.

Yes, it will happen. Believe it.

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Um, no. I want to play a villain, not a villain's lackey. I don't expect you to understand this.
But as long as you're doing your villain thing, like murdering, torturing, enslaving and destroying, does it actually matter if you're self-employed or not?

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator View Post
L20-40 Villain Strike Force: The Fire and the Flames

NEW VILLAIN SF!!!

That is all
Don't worry, it'll be worth fewer merits than the new hero TF. All is well.

Please buff Ice Control.

 

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Originally Posted by 2short2care View Post
Ok logged onto beta and tried to figure out the new powers.
I created a seer lore pet and it is in the right side of the created enhancments, I double clicked it to equip it and it won't equip, keeps saying Lore enhancment won't equip. How do I equip it so I can use it? Also is judgement powers broken? I created a judgement power and it won't equip.
Are you in Ouroboros when you try to equip it? There's something about how Ouroboros blocks temp powers (or something) that prevents us from equiping Incarnate powers while in that zone. It's been like that since we got the Alpha slot.

 

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Nope in steel canyon, wanted to see the new wisp aura, just standing in the street.
Not in game now, but that is where my toon was last at.

Cancel the kitchen scraps for widows and lepers, no more merciful beheadings and call off christmas!

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Adding Prometheus to the Incarnate situation might be the start of them setting up the system to have two Incarnate paths, one for good people, and one for bad.
Wait... you're bringing up the idea of a separate Incarnate path for villains? You?

Is this the Praetorian Golden Girl talking or has your account been hacked?

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
So if I hate the BAF but I like Lambda Sector, I'm not entitled to BAF rewards, ever? Even though the next level of trials, which might be something I like, will be balanced around my having BAF rewards?

Furthermore, if I like doing Lambda Sector occasionally, but don't feel like doing it right now, I should just log off my Incarnate, because I can't make any significant progress any other way?
No. If you do the high end task forces, and the raids, and get components and things, then you're still getting the majority of the incarnate system. You aren't entitled to BAF rewards for free or low effort, but it will go a little slower than you since you aren't getting all the stuff you need for it.

If however you refuse to do all the incarnate content. All the task forces. All the trials. And plot out getting things entirely with shards you got soloing newspaper missions. Then yes, your sense of entitlement in regards to incarnate rewards is too great.

It's exactly how it works now. If you get alpha with entirely components it can go really fast. But let's say you don't feel like doing a CoP or a Reichsman TF (which is a pretty reasonable expectation). You toss a few shards at those components and move on. You can skip some of the things you aren't that fond of.

Now, if you refuse to do any task forces, get any components, participate in any of the WST, then your shards-only route for alpha is 488 shards. I have no sympathy for people saying that's too many. Nor do I have any for people saying 1600 is too many for Judgement et al. There are plenty of options available to you. If you opt to take none of them, and only grind shards, you made your bed with that one.

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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

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Originally Posted by Legree View Post
Wait... you're bringing up the idea of a separate Incarnate path for villains? You?

Is this the Praetorian Golden Girl talking or has your account been hacked?
I'm just saying that we're only at the start of the Incarnate content, so running around in panic over wild assumptions about what all Incarnate content will involve is being rather silly

In I18/GR, we learnt about Tyrant's plans to invade us.

In I19, we unlocked our first Incarnate abilities, and fought the first battles of the Praetorian war.

In I20, we learn that Tyrant is planning to conquer the entire multiverse, and that the Titan called Prometheus is opposed to Tyrant and the Well of the Furies, and he will be helping us fight against them.

The storyline is exapning and adding new lore, info and possibilities with each new Issue, with several directions the devs could take this in - and one of them is to allow an evil Incarnate path for loyalists/Villains to side with Tyrant and the Well, while Heroes side with Prometheus in a cosmic battle for the fate of the multiverse.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Legree View Post
Wait... you're bringing up the idea of a separate Incarnate path for villains? You?

Is this the Praetorian Golden Girl talking or has your account been hacked?
No. She obviously still thinks villains are two-dimensional mustache-twirling EEEEVILS and that's all players want out of them.

Which explains a lot actually. It's the only way anyone could consider Tyrant a good villain.

Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg View Post
All heroes aren't perfect. There are also vigilantes. And I didn't say it was a quest for "unimited powah" but an attempt to use one powerful multi-versal threat to destroy another. Even some heroes will see the benefit of that.
Vigilantes can go redside and do the "unlimited powah" TF.

 

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Originally Posted by Haggard4Life View Post
Are you in Ouroboros when you try to equip it? There's something about how Ouroboros blocks temp powers (or something) that prevents us from equiping Incarnate powers while in that zone. It's been like that since we got the Alpha slot.
I think a dev actually mentioned this recently. There's some kind of zone-wide AoE in Ouroboros. It's harmless, it does something that it needs to do, but it also triggers the "there is a hostile NPC aiming a gun at your head" code. So the engine treats it as though you're in combat, and you can't switch the Incarnate Boosts in combat. It's a known issue. The only current workaround is to just zone to somewhere else - the effect is specific to Ouroboros.

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
But as long as you're doing your villain thing, like murdering, torturing, enslaving and destroying, does it actually matter if you're self-employed or not?
If you're the kind of villain whose only ambition is to murder, torture, enslave or destroy then no, it doesn't matter.

If you're the kind of villain that actually has depth, it might. The more compelling villains tend to be the ones who actually have good intentions, or motives the audience can sympathize with, or at least understand.

 

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Originally Posted by Bossa_Nova View Post
If you're the kind of villain whose only ambition is to murder, torture, enslave or destroy then no, it doesn't matter.
If you're the kind of villain that actually has depth, it might.
But if you're a villain, you'll be doing all those evil things anyway, otherwise you wouldn't be a villain - it doesn't matter why you're doing them, or if you're doing them for yourself or someone else - just by doing them you're being naughty

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The more compelling villains tend to be the ones who actually have good intentions, or motives the audience can sympathize with, or at least understand.
Like Tyrant

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork