Discussion: Issue 20: Incarnates

Perhaps you didn't understand something I said because you're response to it is a contradiction. "No, it's not lazy." followed immediately by "And you're right, no one really has to do the content if they don't want to." What I said was actually "It's lazy BECAUSE you don't have to do it."

If you were being forced to participate in the content you didn't want to do then you'd have a legitimate reason to complain about it. Because it isn't forced on you and you're complaining about it anyway then you're simply being lazy.

Oh as for the game being "solo-friendly" you obviously haven't been here as long as I have because the dev have designed the game to be "team oriented" There are ways around this depending on your build but this game has a long history of nerfing anything that can easily solo. Oh course things have changed ALLOT sense Positron took over as the lead designer in place of Statesman who actually sold his share of the rights to this game before he went off to make Champions Online. Positron has taken some of Statesman's old ideas and totally reworked them. The Incarnate system for example was originally could to be an entire new Epic Archetype that Statesman mentioned shortly after Khedians were made.

It's not the actions themselves that are meant to be similar, it's the motivation behind them. If you quote "don't find it fun" then simply don't do it and find something that you do think is fun to do instead. There's no reason to complain about something just because you don't want to do it, that is being lazy. If you don't want to do just don't do it.

I could use two other completely different examples with a similar mind set. When PvP came out, I was really excited about it at first because of the challenge of being able to fight another player... then I realized that PvP in this game meant that you got no freaking rewards and I was like "Why would I want to waist my time playing in PvP and get nothing for it when I could be doing PvE and actually advance in this game." After a while I finally stopped complaining about it and just ignored the content even existed.

Another is IO's, something I think looks really great on paper but I don't like how it was actually implemented in the game. I've attempted to use IO's multiple times but every time I do I end up finding something else I don't like about the system. Eventually I just decided to ignore it entirely.

Things I like about IOs vs things I don't like

They never go red but they never get any better either.

The benefit of never going red was that you don't have to replace them because a red enhancement is like an empty slot. I don't see this as a real benefit though because if you load a level 30 enhancement that bonus will still be exactly the same at level 50 meaning you would of had to replace it anyway because higher level enhancements will have a higher bonus.

If you have X number of enhancements from the same set you get a set bonus. What it doesn't tell you is that the entire set has to be loaded into the same power and with some sets this causes the need to load enhancements you don't even need into a power just to get a set bonus when you could have an enhancement of a different type in that same power that would actually give a greater benefit to the power itself then the enhancement needed for the bonus. Example: Putting an Accuracy/Defense DeBuff into a power that doesn't even take Defense DeBuff. (You can slot it because it's takes accuracy but that's a waist because you're only getting half the benefit for the enhancement)

Some set bonuses are for specific powers that I don't even normally slot, like travel powers. If they could be slotted anywhere this would be fine but because I have to put multiple enhancements into the same power this requires wasting enhancement slots on a travel power to get a set bonus. I could be putting the slots into powers I actually use to fight instead of travels.

The basic idea of IO's is great but how they actually work is overly complicated. Apparently some people actually like them but I don't. Whenever I did try to use the damn things it basically just sucked all the fun out of the game for me because instead of playing I think I spent about a week just reading up on these things and how they work before I could even use them properly and after all that wasted time I still ended up going back to SO's because they're quick and easy to slot. Hell even HO's are easier to understand and they have the same basic concept just without all the confusing crap piled on top of them that makes them frustrating for me to use.

I'd much rather do a Hamidon raid to earn an HO than to create an IO and try to figure out how to slot it. Fighting Hamidon and slotting an HO takes less time that reading all the befits of any particular IO and is allot more fun.

Honestly what this all boils down to is, I'm lazy and don't want to deal with it. You know you're thinking it after reading all that.

Well the first 20 levels or Praetoria is several of my characters working for Cole. To just drop that completely is lame.

1) Positron isn't Lead Dev anymore. WarWitch is. Posi is head of the End Game content team.

2) Jack Emmert worked for Cryptic. Cryptic sold the rights to NCSoft. Jack went with them when they went on to Champions.

/Information

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I can't understand this at all.

If you stick with generic IO's, they are simple. Slot lvl 25's or higher and forget them.

Unlike SO's, and the bizarre names. And the expiring. Yuck.

Lazy
adjective, -zi·er, -zi·est, verb, -zied, -zy·ing.
–adjective
1.
averse or disinclined to work, activity, or exertion; indolent.
2.
causing idleness or indolence: a hot, lazy afternoon.
3.
slow-moving; sluggish: a lazy stream.
4.
(of a livestock brand) placed on its side instead of upright.



Not pictured:
-1.
refusing to do something that one does not enjoy
-2.
asking instead for a different method to achieve similar goals

There's really no contradiction in what I said. The adjective "lazy" suggests an aversion to work, period. Not doing something you don't have or want to do is a natural course of (in)action. The issue here is that the incarnate system is the closest we're going to get to levels 51-60. So in order to keep developing our characters we have to take part in content we may not enjoy doing, or grind, grind, grind.

You're right. Judging by our forum reg. dates, you have been here longer. Around 10 months longer. Not that big a difference considering I've still been here for 6 years. Honesly, I'm having a hard time remembering any nerfs to content because it can be easily soloable. There's certainly a long history of nerfing anything that is farmable, an activity that the current solo incarnate option encourages.

And yes, the devs have designed the game to be "team oriented," but they also designed it so that the majority of the content is soloable. If they wanted to discourage people playing the game alone the would have simply added a minimum team size to all content.

Again, there is nothing lazy about this. Complaining does not mean lazy. The solo path as we've seen it seems unreasonable. There is nothing wrong with letting the developers know how we feel.

So you gave up on a system you may or may not have enjoyed because you didn't agree with the reward. That doesn't tell me you are lazy, it tells me you have priorities.

So you weighed two options that provided similar benefits against the work that was involved in each, and decided HOs were more worthwhile and enjoyable. That's not being lazy. That's deciding what works best for you.

That's not what I'm thinking. I'm thinking you attribute more meaning to the word 'lazy' than it actually has.

Actually, I get more of a tingling feeling - so trying to speak for everyone else and projecting your opinion onto the entire playerbase isn't such a wise move

lol? Keep this discussion PG please.

Well, I think you might eventually get some higher level cosmic crimes to carry out for your master

I wouldn't say that. The sneak peak boards are full of people having a blast with the new trials. And that's great.

I would like to see story arcs that take advantage of the plot behind the incarnate system in addition to the trials and TFs, or even missions or mini-arcs that drop like tips but more rare. Award a single thread at the end of it. That would be much slower than running the trials, but not as glacial as the current method.