Legree

I do wonder if we'll see the rise of 'leet' Raiding SGs, with membership application processes and raiding schedules and all the stuff the 800lb Gorilla is famous/notorious for.

I can see it happening, especially on Freedom and/or Virtue. First time we see someone in AP looking for only level 50 recruits for their SG we'll know we've really entered the Raid era.

Or if someone invents the CoH equivalent of... Gearscore...

Well that's all they're being used in at the moment, but eventually, perhaps once the initial progression path is complete, I expect we'll see new contacts (new zones even) with Incarnate level story arcs, and one of my big concerns was that this stuff would, effectively, be gated behind either the Raid system or the current mega-grind, because the enemies we'd be facing would be balanced for Incarnates and not scale down to standard 50s.

(I really don't think that all future high level story content is going to be told solely through TFs and Raids - you can cover a lot more ground, and a lot of subtleties, through smaller scale story arcs. Not everything will be full scale super war.)

Incarnates, and all that goes with it, are likely to become a major focus of high level content from here on in. I don't think that's up for debate. Geko's idea of a solo/small team friendly parallel path that allows everyone to experience facets of the developing story, rather than just collecting uber-tokens from existing content, is I think a very neat solution, and means that when/if we do see Incarnate zones and story arcs, we're a) ready for them, and b) hopefully actually enjoyed the process of getting there.

Leave my Rikti alone! I love the Rikti Invasions - have done since my original 10 day trial.

"So I'm level 7, ho hum, better go fight some muggers, and purse snatchers and... OMG ALIEN INVASION!"

However, the Banner Event really needs to be looked at, since it's essentially impossible to do anything worthwhile in it unless there's a full team or 2, preferably 50s, in the zone when it hits, which isn't common.

Then change the name, because the only difference between a story arc and almost all of the TFs is what they're called. There are plenty of story arcs that are far bigger in scope than most of the TFs... especially the old blueside TFs. The Fall of the Fifth Column from Mender Lazarus being one that immediatly comes to mind, though there's plenty of others.

Suits me, but I'd also want EBs instead of AVs, since AVs are artificially over powered because they're 'team content.' Whilst not invulnerable to single players they do tend to require rather specialised (and expensive) builds.

My biggest problem with TFs/SFs - aside from how hard it is to get a team together for one if you're playing mostly off peak and on smaller pop servers, is that the way they work the story gets told really badly - unless you have the star. I couldn't care less if they gave 0 merits, I just want to be able to play through them, at least once, in my own time and at my own pace.

Especially those which are the culmination of an entire zone's worth of story arcs - Caverns of Transcendance in the Hollows being by far the worst offender, though Katie, the ITF and, I think, Hess, all fall under that category as well.

The "It's a massively MULTIPLAYER" crowd have the new Raids to keep them happy. Opening up the regular TFs and SFs would go a very long way to balance that out with the soloing crowd.

Introducing a Raid heavy endgame onto an MMO that's been running for 7 years was always going to be incredibly divisive, on a level that makes AE and PVP and the rest of the hot spots look like the niche content they are. CoH has always been a brilliant exception to the norm of MMO progression, until now. Now, if you want to progress in the endgame at a sane rate then you'd better like Raiding, because that's what you're going to have to do.

Once you start on the endgame path you can't stop it, and I fear that we're going to see new Raid content eat up more and more development time in the issues to come. It will also continue to fuel never ending argument on the forums, between the haves (who Raid) and the have-nots (who don't), because that's what endgame does in every MMO that has one.

This isn't doom-crying. This is fact. If we keep on this path, and I've seen no sign that we won't, then the game is going to look very very different in a year or two from what it does now.

"City of Heroes: where the game starts at 50"

Oh look, it's Zombie pretending to be a Mod again.

I'll say what I said in the I20 thread. If you think a thread is being derailed then report the offending posts and let the pros deal with it, because you setting yourself up as the arbiter of what is and isn't on-topic does as much to invite derailing arguments as anything.

What happened to you, Zombie? When I was on the forums a year back your posts were something I looked for, because you made sense. Now it's just complaining about other people voicing their opinions and agresssive defences of the endgame/incarnate system - which was always inevitably going to be an incredibly divisive feature... just like it is in every other MMO.

Put The Wretch Strike Force in the game... as the next level of Incarnate content.

(yup, villains only)

Still my favourite piece of Steelclaw writing.

Wait... you're bringing up the idea of a separate Incarnate path for villains? You?

Is this the Praetorian Golden Girl talking or has your account been hacked?

In this case it's because if you take out the team-only content there is nothing in this issue.

Seeing as that costume set is dependant on having an active account for an extended period it doesn't count as I20 content.

...and following a failure to renew on my primary account (hence, posting on my secondary) I won't be picking it up anyway. Meh, I was planning on keeping active for a while but the I20 overview makes me a lot less bothered about doing so. That, and this thread, which is showing an unusually ugly and arrogant side to some members of this community.

Long term I can't shake the feeling that CoH's new endgame is going to turn out to be a rather good illustration of the old saying be careful what you wish for...