How many times must I die to ambushes before I can re-complain?

Yeah, putting it politely I'd say that works well.

I have other ways of putting it, none fit for these boards *cough*

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Yeah I /bug'ed that mission in-game as well....

When I did it on my Stalker (yes Stalker....yikes!) and once I stepped foot into the mission...AMBUSH! 20-50 Syndicate mobs on me....oh...how nice...and they always come after me no matter what? oh ...nice...


I have always thought ALL the mobs in Praetoria have too high perception because it always seemed like they could see me farther away than most mobs in CoH/CoV.....annoying.


The worst part is, in GR beta some of these ambushes were worse if you can believe it....


But yeah....the "Hunt down Shen" mission....grr.....



Again as others said, if this was for lvls 40-50 or so, then it might not be a big deal (or as big of a deal). But when you're only like lvl 12 or 15...need some endurance help (as well as health )....*shrugs*

Line 5 is a big one, especially considering they don't drop inspirations (which is part of the power design!).
And to note, Z, I don't think I've ever seen Techbot Alpha there post so pissed off.

Hehe, I actually find the Syndicate the easier of the enemy groups to deal with. And by far, too easy on my Kin/EA stalker. I plan to go again when they eventually proliferate another set for me to play a stalker on (or give me some cool animations for current sets).

For a Stalker? If I find the ambushes don't stop, kill the ambush sans the last weak-A minion and placate. Run away and just keep placating when he catches up

It also helps that Ectenic Hood (the KM/EA stalker) picked up Phase Shift to completely ignore all ambushes when he needs to.

I'm not saying Prea is 'easy' just mitigatable if you think outside the box. Those ghoul missions and ambushes tho...uhg....

IIRC, the only thread in the GR Beta longer than the "complaining about ambushes" thread was the morality thread.

I agree. Just say no to easymode.

Please pass along that some of us relish the added difficulty of the Praetorian content and greatly wish that it would be extended to the upper levels.

Thats my point, though. Ambushes DON'T run past. They home in on you worse than a pissed of Cyber-Weasel with bloody nuggets on it's mind. And, unlike their Primal Counterparts, Praetorians deliver that in spades and a half.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I have nothing against harder stuff. Why else would I solo at x8 on my 50 and run LGTFs and ITFs at +4?

I'm not asking for something stupidly pathetic, like level 1-20 Hellions.
I'm just asking that Praetorians don't treat me the same as level 1-6 Vahzilok do, shooting you so full of debuffs you can't move before letting their bosses spank you to death. This isn't end game, this is level 1-20 for pity sakes.
Hard mode is fine...but NOT when your set to +0/x0! That's what difficulty settings are there for.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Uh... good to hear. Thanks.

While this thread has a special passion to it that the earlier threads on this topic have lacked, it's true that this has been a concern and a frustration about the Praetorian missions that, as you say, has been pointed out since GR closed beta.

Back when regen was still getting smacked with nerfs every issue (and kept on going anyway) i used to joke that when the Devs were presented with more than one way to scale back a powerset or increase difficulty they tended to pick "all of the above". Praetoria seems to have some of the same design approaches.

For me it's not so bad even though some mobs and missions are endlessly frustrating for some ATs. i'm pretty familiar with critter AI and powers. For a new player having seemingly endless hordes of character-seeking death machines pounding them into paste for daring to enter the map could be a wee bit annoying.

Didn't say you did. I don't recall responding to your posts.

Praetoria isn't difficult. It teaches you QUICKLY to stay on your toes. +0/x1 shouldn't be a snoozefest. The only quarrel I have about Praetoria is that it does make the slowest part of the game slower. The fitness changes help with that. There are other things I would do. Lowering the difficulty isn't one of them.

I didn't say *they* run, I said *you* run. Lol, if the ambush consist of 3 guys, having your Stalker kill 2 and leave a minion, you just use placate on the last guy then run away.

If you're lucky, the thing'll get stuck in the geometry of the map somewhere and you'll be rid of any new ambushes. If not, the minion will come after you again, but if you're aiming to head straight to the objective, you might finish before he catches up and if not, placate the thing again.

It's a tactic only usable for Stalkers but then Stalkers are so infamous at being hosed by these ambushes, I just thought I'd share that little trick to anyone still taking Stalkers through Preatoria.

Maybe I'm not being clear enough here.

For example, the 'Find Shen' missions.
As soon as you enter, he starts sic'ing two seperate ambushes on you. These things are twice the size of normal mobs. There are two of them, so a quadruple mob if you will. They ignore stealth, and will shoot at you as soon as they see you, likely making an AS impossible through shear weight of fire. If you run, they will follow.

By the time you've dealt with one wave, the NEXT has already headed your way. Rinse and repeat until rady to actually stab someone in the face over how damn obnoxious it is.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I'm always on my toes. That doesn't stop +0/x1 Syndicate mobs from utterly violating my Kin/SR scrapper, despite anything I do bar massive inspiration consumption. That doesn't stop larger than usual mobs of Ghouls from systematically pounding me into the dirt with little or no pause. That doesn't stop Resistance from laughing off my defences in one massive volleyfire, and then flooring me with the P.O.K.E of all Punch-Of-Kill-Everythings. And it doesn't stop Clockwork from having the nastiest array of debuffs since Vahzilok figured out that -recharge and -speed was the perfect ganking tool and gave it to all most his minions and all his LTs.

That's not 'Difficult'. That's not 'Challenging'. THAT is the Computer Being a Cheating ******. And, at +0/x1, sorry, but that ain't fun.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

That's what the difficulty slider is for. Put yourself on +4 and knock yourself out!

Perhaps you could even ask for a "moar ambushes" setting at the fateweaver npc so that when a mission does spawn ambushes it spawns 2x as many.

As City isn't an action game, the type of gamer that wants to learn QUICKLY to stay on their toes are unlikely to be the type of gamer that tries this game. Especially with seven years of hype and scuttlebutt about this being the "solo-friendly" MMO.

Oh god whatever. Solo or casual, having to be "on your toes" still isn't going to jive with the reputation the game has built.

Can't say I ran that mission as my Stalker was in the Resistance. But in that situation, unorthodox powers like Phase Shift or temp powers would be a great tactic. Looking at the mission details doesn't say the door ambush will follow you through elevators while the ambushes triggered by attacking Shen will. So run for the elevator. Placate as you turn a corner to hide you and get out of dodge

No, Praetoria is difficult. Its actually outside the standard difficulty model. It keeps you and me on our toes. But the original stated purpose of the Going Rogue expansion was to attract new customers. People who wouldn't have the benefit of prior experience. The tutorial was lauded as a better introduction into the game than Outbreak or Breakout. Which it is. Then at level 15 the game beheads new players with a very rapidly escalating difficulty level.

I have veteran attacks, seven years experience, and so much knowledge about the game I know what the AI is going to do two seconds before the server does. I think Praetoria is significantly more difficult. If it wasn't for inherent fitness, I'd consider only playing it by emailing resources to the lowbees to outfit them with maximum enhancements and inspirations constantly. And I never, ever do that now. That, or only playing masterminds there.

They really should consider having a lower level difficulty story path for new players that buy Going Rogue. I don't mind the existence of the newer more challenging path: for people like me its just that: a challenge. For most people, I suspect its an exercise in frustration.

Like those damn DE in the tip missions. Seriously, once Black Scorpion gets out from under I20, he and I are going to have a long talk about those. In fact, Zwillinger, you can tell Tim that I'm a comin', and hell's a comin' with me.

There's at least one Redside tip at level 50 that involves Rularuu. Can you mention that too, while you're at it?

I like this idea. Honestly I enjoy the difficulty. I get that not everybody does. So if both camps can have their way, I'm completely for it.

But if it comes down to staying as is, or lowering the difficulty, I am firmly behind the difficulty remaining where it is.

I agree on all points, especially the Destroyers. I remember the first time I fought them on a Dominator: "Hmmm......that guy seems to be immune to CC. Ok, I'll hoverblast!" This was followed by the Big Dog throwing not one but TWO chunks of rock at me, both of which appeared to feature -Fly and took off over half my life by the time he was done. His Footstomp (seriously? A Tier 9 attack on a level 12 mob?) once I landed unceremoniously on the ground finished me off quite handily. My personal response to that has been to always run the Loyalist Responsibility arc on a Dominator. That arc has absolutely no Destroyer missions at all.

It's not just the Big Dogs - the LTs (Hombres) are mez resistant as well. Not to the extent of the Dogs, but still. Oh and Blast Masters are essentially a minion version of Demolitionists. Overall the Destroyers are Scrapyarders on steroids - not something easy to fight at lvl 10 .

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those that enjoys Praetoria - but to say that it is not more difficult than the 1-20 path in either Paragon or RI is just not being honest. And I have all the vet attacks - I simply cannot imagine what it must be like for a first time player.

It's funny. A while back, a year or two ago I was working on my first Stalker, my main villain, a Claws \Ninjitsu Stalker I rather enjoyed playing. However I found that some mission with ambushes, and Mayhem Missions in general were pretty much unplayable.

A stalker is built entirely around the stealth power. Ever stalker has to take it and the whole thing about being a squishy Melee AT is that you're supposed to get the first hit and it's supposed to do a ton of damage from hide, and you are given things like placate and other powers to help you get back into hide so you can do your massive damage again, to you know, survive more than 2 baddies.

However ambushes, in Praetoria and Elsewhere, pretty much make a Stalker just an under-powered Squishy Melee fighter. Having things knocking you out of stealth from range before you can attack takes away the chance to get a crit at all, much less an AS off. Not to mention the whole thing about being a Stalker was that you aren't supposed to be in direct confrontation, that's for Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers. Stalkers are supposed to fight from the shadows on their terms. But not when you have large Ambushes of over sized groups coming at you guns blazing from range.

At lower levels it's even worse you have less powers to fall back on.

Honestly, at the time I brought this up I was very frusterated with Mayhem missions, particularly with being hunted by sometimes multiple ambushes at once that wouldn't lose aggro and effing long bow would cut me down from range with their rifles and such. I complained on the boards and in game and got some very un-sympathetic responses.

So I'll tell you Sam, I feel your pain, I really do. I have 2 level 50 Stalkers and it's the only AT I simply won't roll again to try new combos etc. They are under-powered and rather ignored by the Devs IMO, and I couldn't fathom trying to play one in Praetoria. I sympathize with your frustration.