Stalker or Scrapper on your team?

I took out my alpha Stalker the other day for LRSF and obviously nobody was interested in him and I didn't feel like forming my team. I wasn't mad or anything. I kinda knew it.

Now, we know Brute on villain side can tank and deal good damage which makes Stalker less important. (Stalker is not useless)

Generally speaking, no AT is needed (except in very few situations where you need MM's temp power or have loads of debuffs) but who would you take if you are a team leader? Stalker or Scrapper?


I don't want answers like I only take "experienced" players or whoever PM me first. If you run a full team and already have other areas covered (buffs/debuffs/tanking) and you are forced to pick one melee dps, who would you choose and why? Stalker or Scrapper?

I hate, HATE being an AT-elitist, but given the rules you gave, my answer is Scrapper and I'd love to see what justifications someone would give for preferring a Stalker.

The "why" is quite simple actually: 1) better aoe damage (except for Elec) 2) more survivability via more HP.

Then there are subtleties such as Scrappers grabbing aggro and Stalker shedding it, so the Scrapper is more squishy friendly in that case.

I know people are going to say "My Spines/SR Stalker does tons of AOE and is plenty survivable". Yes, I'm sure it is. Guess what, that Spines/SR Scrapper is better on both counts.

Please note - I'm not a Stalker hater, and in fact rather enjoy playing the ones I have. I understand the OP's pain, of teams not being enthused about including him for LRSF/STFs. Personally I'm going to make sure my Stalkers get their NotW from Khans this week.

Scrapper. I'm not giving any reasons. Anything I say will be anti-stalker. Nothing personal. Just don't like that AT in teams.

Again, I'd never refuse one, but forced to choose? Scrapper.

I have found that a Stalker is superior on newer content-- such as Apex and Tin Mage. These missions have broken the mold of AV fights being reduced to facing an enemy with high HP and regeneration and melee ATs standing still for optimal DPS. The stalker truly shines in Tin Mage and especially so on the Apex TF where burst damage is actually useful against Battle Maiden. When you are forced to be mobile, burst damage has a very significant role.

However, on almost every other Task/Strike force, I would say that the Scrapper is better-- and this comes from a person that prefers the Stalker AT. Scrappers do more base damage than Stalkers AND they have a 1.0 self buff AT modifier while stalkers are limited to 0.8. Many tier 9 skills for Scrappers also have a 15% chance for critical. The end result is that Scrappers will outperform most Stalkers even when 4-5 ATs are augmenting the critical rate of a Stalker (+12% to +15%).

It's silly that even during those moments where a stalker is optimized, ie there are 4 to 5 allies within 30 feet of the Stalker, they still have lower DPS, lower survivability, and lower AoE than a Scrapper.

The Scrapper, all else being equal, is just a bit better. The one area Stalkers have an advantage over Scrappers - burst damage - they a) aren't far enough ahead to compensate for the fact that b) that advantage is not as important to CoH combat as the advantages Scrappers have.

That said, the gap's not big enough that I'd begrudge taking the Stalker, and really *everything* else would need to be equal (right down to character name) for Scrapper vs Stalker to be the issue that determined who I chose.

Stalkers really do need to be looked at again. It isn't fair that Scrappers out-damage and out-survive them. Brutes recently had Fury mitigated to keep them from stepping on Scrappers' toes too much, Stalkers need a buff to give them indisputably better damage than Scrappers given how much squishier they are.

P.S. This is another reason why making Incarnate rewards tied to teaming was a bad idea. Some Archetypes and powerset combos really do have a tougher time finding a team, especially in the crucible of the tougher Task Forces. Here's hoping for soloable options in I20.

WARNING: I bold names.

I'm a pretty avid Stalker player, myself, but I'd probably still take the Scrap under most circumstances... particularly if it was a PUG. There are just too many ways a "bad" Stalker player can end up putting a wrench in the gears, and, as has already been mentioned, all else being equal, the Scrap is apt to be tougher and harder-hitting. Those are both good things when the strength of the team as a whole is sort-of an unknown quanity.

Now, that said, there *are* exceptions. If I know the Stalker's player is reasonably smart and good at playing that toon, and the Scrap is a stranger or run by someone I know is more of a wild-card... I'd take the Stalker every time. In spite of the differences in the base ATs, a GOOD Stalker is better than a bad or mediocre Scrap.

On the other side of things, as a player I try very hard to be that Good Stalker. I know the way I play Kestrel and Shade isn't likely to change the larger game population's opinions on their AT, but I think it says at least a little something that as time goes on, I'm getting less and less of the "Can you bring Ash/Silver/Keiran instead?"-thing than I used to with them.

I don't think I'd find myself in the situation set up. If I was forming a team and there were two people asking for the last slot, and they were a Scrapper and a Stalker, I'd simply take whoever asked first every time. I can't think of any possible reason I'd feel pushed to do otherwise. Sorry, I know that's not the answer you wanted! I just don't think there's anything that a team of competent players that includes a Scrapper can do that can't be done by a team of competent players that includes a Stalker. (Or with both/neither.)

Scrapper, except in two circumstances...

1)Electric/nin stalker over electric/anything scrapper, because it is capable of higher dps in those AV fights if the player knows what he is doing.

2)A team made up of players who will stay in melee range, and no significant damage buffs. If I could count on getting the full 33% crit chance out of the Stalker, his damage pulls ahead easily. This type of team is pretty rare for these things though.

If the team is mostly AoE or melee based already, the Stalker

For everything else, there's Scrapperlock.

Lumi's Kinetics/Dark Blast Scrapfender, obviously.

Stalkers are pretty much a pure PvP AT for the most part. In PvE, I'd pick a scrapper for sure. At least with everything else being equal. A spines stalker that's invested 20 billion vs a scrapper with SO's....in that case I might actually pick the stalker.

My friend used to farm with a spines/SR stalker, and the speed was only a tiny bit slower than with his spines/SR scrapper. It was a very expensive build though.

I'd take the first one available, wouldn't much matter either way to me.

Stalker.

I don't think the difference in AoE or ST damage over time will make a significant difference when you've got Fire/Dark Corruptors and MMs melting faces at running speed already. But the extra ST burst damage from a Stalker may be helpful for knocking down bosses a bit quicker.

I prefer watching Stalkers as well, for some reason. Stand-and-swing is less interesting than bouncing around, charging up, and shanking. Also, years of Hollows Horror culminating in running Frostfire literally hundreds of times has left me with a minor twitch every time I see a scrapper move towards an unengaged mob.

A brute instead of either :P

But i for one dont really care, they are both fine.

Could add a fat chunk of unresistable -regen to AS. Stalkers are not going to replaces the real debuffing classes, but they'd have a trick that the other melee classes couldn't trump.

Eight Rad defenders are better, yes, but they already were and always will be. The stalkers just need to have an edge on the melee people.