Stalker or Scrapper on your team?

Maybe he didn't slow you down, but a comparable scrapper in his place would have sped things up even more. In fact, almost any other AT would likely have led to a faster TF. A stalker is debatable.

Ok im able to solo yellows on my stalker faster than most teams take down the pylons and blues.

Again, I'm not saying that Brutes ALWAYS out damage Scrappers. I'm saying that Scrappers do not ALWAYS out damage Brutes. Even with the Brute changes, Brutes still outdamage Scrappers on the edge case where they have 75% Fury, and no external or stacking damage buffs.

Since the claim is that Stalkers should ALWAYS outdamage Scrappers, I'm pointing out that Scrappers do not ALWAYS outdamage Brutes. To be balanced, Scrappers should outdamage Stalkers as often as Brutes outdamage Scrappers.

If this is true of Brutes, it is also true of Stalkers. The ratio between Stalker and Scrapper HP is the same as the ratio between Scrapper and Brute HP.

Yeah, we should probably stop wasting time and have something like that put on the table.

The many times I see posted that Stalkers are bad at AoE just make me shake my head. Yeah, Stalkers are bad at AoE compared to ATs like Blasters, Controllers or Dominators. But vs Brutes or Scrappers?

I'd query that the ATs compared with like sets would show the disparity isn't big. Because Scraps and Brutes aren't really great at AoE either. And when comparing outliers like Fire melee, would really prove my point in that it's not the AT that's bad at AoE but just the sets currently available. If there were no such thing as proliferation, then I'd have no point to stand on.

I'd further imply that it's not the amount of AoE a character has but the quality of the AoEs. Yeah, it might be decent to great AoE DPS to cycle your 4-5 AoEs on paper, but on teams with members with 3-4 of their own AoEs, AoE DPS is pointless. Things will be dead before you get through your 3rd AoE. My point being, losing a PBAoE or some AoE might be a hit in AoE DPS, but if you can make up for it with AoE burst (the more important of the 2 types of AoEs), you're in the driving seat.

Example: a blaster with a crashless nuke. No one gives a flying flip about the Scrapper's Dragon's Tail or Whirling Sword when the Blaster just dropped a quarter+ of a spawn with BU+Aim+Rain of Arrows.

Really the same goes for an applicable example, Dual Blades. Yeah, Stalks loose out on the tasty DPS AoE combo of Blinding Feint + Typhoon Edge but gain the oh so tasty AoE burst combo of BU + 1kcuts from hide. Would the Stalker be better off for AoE if they still had Typhoon Edge? Yeah, for AoE DPS. But things'll already be dead before you even bother queueing it up. And that goes for any melee DBs.

He didn't say they were correct because there were more of them. He said there are more of them so they can afford to be selective.

Very few disagree that stalkers need help, but on some servers, finding people willing to group is rare enough that you don't see the same level of preference that you would if people had the freedom of choice.

It depends on what you mean by "sacrifice".

By "sacrifice", do you mean a loss of DPS? Because Assassin Strike has the highest DPA of any attack a Stalker can use.

By "sacrifice", do you mean being in Hide? Because a Stalker should always be in Hide as a combat starts.

By "sacrifice", do you mean being knocked out of Hide by AoE attacks on the tank? Because that's just a matter of timing and having good Defense. Heck, if you are in Hide you should have at least 37.5% Defense.

There are plenty of opportunities for a Stalker to do burst damage, both with his first attack, and subsequent ones. The Stalker even has a higher chance of random burst damage. The burst damage doesn't have to end after 10s, although perhaps the Stalker won't be doing more burst damage than the Scrapper any more. The point is, though, that the Stalker is already ahead...

Build Up+Aim for a Blaster is a damage boost, which means for 3 slotted attacks it only gives a +78.75% increase in overall damage. If you are being boosted by the team, that is even less. A Stalker by contrast will do +175% damage with a Placate+Build Up combo, and Placate is up more often than Build Up. So even with a Blaster's best single target damage attack, Total Focus, the best it can do at level 50 is 707.75, while an AS with BU does 1070.52. (please correct math if incorrect...)

The Blaster will DEFINATELY do more AoE damage, particularly with the Tier 9. That's really what will come close to the damage of AS, and easily exceed it, with more than one target. But the Blaster's single target damage will not be able to spike that high.

Ok, if you put the same budget into a scrapper with the same powersets, you could do the same thing even faster and be more survivable doing it.

You mean so's and damage cap with reds? Any melee is able to do that if they have half a brain. All you really need is a reliable self heal.

I mean whatever your build is, you'd do it better on a scrapper.

How do you 1-2 shot "better"? Does it really matter at that point?

By being able to survive more reliably and do more damage with each 1-2 shot, meaning more 1 shots and less 2s.

Duh.

By having more HP and survival, more AoE potential, and better DPS on targets that actually matter (anyone can kill minions and lieutenants).

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Right.

EDIT: Survivng isnt that hard if you know what you are doing and i'm not aware of any AT specific thing with Mitos that makes their hp change but ok.

Silly me. I play both.

Havnt had any issues finding a place on the weekly Tf yet, though my stalker isnt 50 yet so I havnt tried.

Actually, the sacrifices I feel are:

1. Less HP (this is actually my least issue with Stalker and it doesn't really bother me but many have brought this up)

2. Loss of AoE power in some sets for Assassin Strike. Both MA and EM have zero aoe and Ninja Blade, Broadsword, Claw and Dual Blade lose one good pbaoe.

3. The need to "wait" for 8s and "set up" (this is most noticeable when you are on a good team but I've learned to just ignore Assassin Strike but that's like ignoring your Signature move just because others don't need your role of "elimination".)



I just don't feel Stalker's burst damage is all that good and I've played many stalkers (several lvl 50s) including my new lvl 36 MA Stalker now. After I got Eagle Claw, I tend to just open the battle with BU + Eagle because I can score a stun on the first target and then move to the 2nd target with Cobra and then move on to the next target.

When I play Martial Arts, I need to master the "Art of Not Overkilling". Basically for the first 10s of Build Up, I switch targets 3-4 times (Eagle, Cobra, Axe and then Crane) and let others finish off. There is no need to use both Eagle and Cobra on the same target unless it's a boss or lieut.


The "thing" I feel the most is that when the setting is low, your Role of Elimination is not needed at all and when the setting is very high, your Assassin Strike can't even kill a lieut in one-shot and the team gets better results with a tank/debuffs/buffs/controls. I feel this way with high level Stalkers. At low lvl, Stalker's Assassin Strike is good...it feels good to AS a boss to death when others can't and when Brutes can't just run in to take aggro while dealing more damage.

My Stalker has trouble for Lord Recluse when I try to find a PUG. I am going to use him tonight for Lady Grey.

Let me spell it out for you, then.

I said surviving more reliably. A scrapper has higher base hit points, which means several things. First, and most obviously, they must take more damage to die. Second, green inspirations, self heals, and regeneration have more of an effect on scrappers. Simply put, in the same scenario, it is more likely that the stalker will die than it is the scrapper will. I don't care if "Surviving isnt that hard" (spelling corrected), your stalker would have a higher survival rate if it were a scrapper.

There is no AT specific thing with Mitos that makes their HP change. There is, however, an AT specific thing that makes a scrapper do more damage to Mitos than your stalker. It's called a damage modifier. Not only is a scrapper's build up better than a stalkers, damage buffs (including the red inspirations you mentioned) do more for a scrapper than they do for a stalker. There is a higher base number on the scrapper, so the buff makes a bigger number to begin with even bigger by a bigger amount. The more buffs you add to the situation, the further the scrapper pulls ahead of a stalker.

Yeah but the hp remains the same and at damage cap it really doesn't matter. Well perhaps 1-2 seconds faster in theory if we pull out our abbacus and excel spreadsheet but it's more about the player than AT.

If you are going bother to correct my spelling to make yourself seem better it's isn't not "isnt"

It's abacus.

Yes, it is about the player. That same player on the other AT will do better.

I only corrected spelling. I did not add the apostrophe in for you.

I ahve laway eben o hte oponion htat edcutatin rather htan ridiculning makes you seem like les of a ****.

Your mileage may vary of course.

I tried educating, you refused to listen and responded only with hyperbole. I treat willful ignorance with very little compassion.

But scrappers are not giving up extra powers for crits nor do brutes gain extra powers for fury. For stalkers its the combination of missing key powers and the hp difference.

Ignorance? I do admit that scrappers have more survivability than a stalker thanks to having more hp however this game is not that hard.

If i'm able to one shot yellows on a puny stalker. How does the extra damage make scrappers better in that situation if the mitos hp do not vary?