Does anyone here even LIKE comic books?
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2011-01-13 16:15 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It's not particularly difficult to imagine a time in the not too distant future when mentioning a certain comic book company and/or their signature characters might become a big no no here.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
<3
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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To be fair, some long-established superheroes also don't quite fit the CoH lore. Silver-Age Martian Manhunter would be as helpless against fire-based characters as a VtM vampire, and any version of Superman would wilt before the Circle of Thorns or any other Magic-origin villain, and so on. But there's no way to do that here, outside of RP. (Not that I think the game needs such a feature)|
Originally Posted by BrandX
the problem is, V:tM doesn't fit with the CoH lore.
Vampires in VtM would run away from any fire based toon. They'd be able to be staked. You don't think those Angels people play would burn a vampire on sight alone for the amount of faith they have? |
On the original subject, one of the things I love about the game is the ability to create characters from all sorts of genres. And the game's story itself certainly supports that - there's a lot of costumed super-types to fight, but there's also heavily-armed supersoldiers, aliens in power armor, snake-men, spell-casting wizards (and the demons they summon), battle droids, devil-worshipping street punks, fascist werewolves, psychic cops, sword-wielding Roman soldiers, and the occasional giant monster. There's no reason a player shouldn't be able to make a similar variety of characters.
Dr. Sivana fits in the comic book genre just as well as Darkseid. Luke Cage is as much a superhero as Spider-Man. Superboy's current T-shirt and jeans ensemble doesn't make him less of a hero than Superman. Codenames and/or costumes aren't required to be a comics character, even a superhero comics character.
As for the pronoun issue - when in doubt, I use character gender.
Finally, welcome to the game. You'll find this is one of the friendliest communities ever for a MMORPG, even without the "for a MMORPG" qualifier. (I admit, I'm still trying to become a little less cynical myself)
This pronoun thing is kind of interesting . . .
To me, the key is communication. If I write something that is confusing to the reader, then I have failed my job of communicating information or ideas. When I first read the original post, I was confused with what the original poster was saying. I have not seen anyone use those words before. Using non-standard pronouns to try to make a point distracts from the message and fails to accomplish the primary goal of communication. This thread is clear evidence showing that the distraction can become significant.
English uses "he" as the default pronoun for an individual person. However, there are ways around using that default without being confusing. For example, in the paragraph above, I used "original poster" rather than the pronoun. I could have used other gender-neutral terms such as the individual's name or words like "individual" or "person." Pronouns are a shorthand version of other words, so if a writer dislikes the implication of the pronoun, a writer can choose other words without creating a controversy. If I really want to use a pronoun, I feel it is a better practice to use the standard default or a commonly accepted alternative, such as "he or she," to prevent confusion.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
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On Virtue, Pocket D is the unofficial role playing hang out. While it's open, a lot of the action moves to the ski chalet in Pocket D, otherwise the blueside upper bar (where the NPC War Witch is) is the most crowded. Mind you, this mainly "stand around and talk" role playing which might not appeal to you if you're looking for action-packed rp missions but you'll have plenty of bios to read. For role playing missions I'll say again that you'll probably want a supergroup dedicated to that sort of thing since most pickup groups don't bother with it.|
Originally Posted by PoisonPen
* Thanks to those who recommended Virtue as a good roleplaying server. I plunked my ten bucks down and transferred my main character there. Time will tell, but already I'm seeing a lot more people who have characters with backgrounds, which is a good sign. (Sometimes I like to just stand near the subway and read people's backgrounds as they pass. This game really needs a spectator mode.)
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| * To those who have expressed preferences for alternative comics outside the capes and leotards variety... |
just adding my name to one of the comic lovers in game.
I'd also add (but risk repeating) that there are 3 different starting areas, Heroes, Villains, Praetoria and in Heroes you can start from scratch in Atlas or Galaxy city, so you won't see EVERYONE where you are.
Instances have already been mentioned.
Welcome to the game and I hope your experience improves
Thelonious Monk
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Using "he" as the default means that a man will never have to experience being referred to with a pronoun he is uncomfortable with, while a woman who is referred to as "he" has to choose between shouldering the discomfort or go "actually, I'm not a 'he' " and risk the discussion being derailed.
Using "he" as the default, you're not using "a gender neutral 'he' ", you're assuming everyone to be male unless they say otherwise. |
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
OOOR, it's much easier to go "I don't think of myself as sexist, so nothing I do or say can possibly be sexist in any way and anyone who thinks so is oversensitive" than sit down and examine what deeply-rooted assumptions might be hiding behind the way you communicate in any medium.
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Personally, I like to alternate. That seems to be a popular way of dealing with readers' potential sensitivities. Trying to shoe-horn politically correct pronouns of your own into the language seems rather self-important (some might say self-defeating, given all of the failed attempts to create a standard gender-neutral set of pronouns over the years) by contrast.
Interestingly, from what I was able to dig up on the subject, sie and hir are apparently out of fashion given their decidedly feminine tone. So the roller coaster of alleged victimhood goes.
Regardless, it seems pretty obvious that the OP knew her repeated use of those non-standard pronouns in a post where she implicitly touts her own skill with the language (sending unsolicited spelling corrections to total strangers in an internet game) would provoke commentary, or at least questions. And so, what you may regard as simply an appropriate nod to political correctness may look to someone else like a naked plea for attention to the OP's preferred political narrative in a non-political forum.
The purpose of langauge is to communicate. As Zombie rightly points out, language evolves based on widespread and accepted use. The objection here isn't some antiquated prescriptivist screed taken as if from the lecture of a third-grade Catholic school teacher. The objection is based on a tiny fringe group trying to inject their own personal preferences into a language spoken by billions worldwide -- and in the process, casting aspersions on most any attempt to communicate in good faith.
That's what you just did.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Wow, I started a bit of a snowball there.
Gender neutral eh? That's kind of odd... especially (as other have pointed out) "they" and "their" are already accepted.
Also, "hir" is probably the worst possible concept for being gender neutral since when spoken it would be identical to "her"... *baffled*
Personally, I've always used "they" and "their" when referring to posters I don't know the genders to and I've always gone with toon gender in game (unless, again, I know their actual gender).
Just goes to show that some people will make a big deal out of anything.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
people who don't know me always assume I'm American anyway, and expect me to feel patriotic about the 4th of July
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I refuse to use made-up gender-neutral pronouns which don't exist in the English language because I disrespect the imaginary sexism presented here. Men don't get called the wrong gender? I do in this game. All the time. For the last few years, I've played predominantly female characters, and I never correct people when they call me "she," because it is irrelevant. They don't know me, and they can't be expected to walk on eggshells just in case I'm not what I seem. In fact, it feels more awkward for people who don't know me at all to call my female characters "he." I refuse to live in a world where people have to constantly walk on eggshells for fear of insulting someone over such trivial information.
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Hear! Hear!
People can take there political correctness and shove it. Aside from the fact that it's simply irrelevant in a video game, he is used by default.
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Which is what I'd like changed. |
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
Hear! Hear!
People can take there political correctness and shove it. Aside from the fact that it's simply irrelevant in a video game, he is used by default. |
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No, I assume she was raised in a society that has only reluctantly started thinking of women as real human beings for the last few decades, and the language hasn't quite caught up yet.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
So every time anyone uses the indefinite male pronoun as she was taught to do you assume she's a chauvanist pig?
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| Regardless, it seems pretty obvious that the OP knew her repeated use of those non-standard pronouns in a post where she implicitly touts her own skill with the language (sending unsolicited spelling corrections to total strangers in an internet game) would provoke commentary, or at least questions. And so, what you may regard as simply an appropriate nod to political correctness may look to someone else like a naked plea for attention to the OP's preferred political narrative in a non-political forum. |
Character index
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When you bug a typo in the game text it goes into a big pile of reports for the live team that get sorted through and read as and when they choose.|
Originally Posted by PoisonPen
* I didn't realize it was against etiquette to point out typos for people. In most contexts people regard it as a courtesy. I know I do. I had no idea that it was verboten here, and I'll certainly stop doing it. I've been filing bug reports on typos and grammatical errors in the game text too; should I stop doing that? Am I annoying the devs?
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When you message someone (I'm assuming you used a /tell) it makes a noise and shows up in the chat buffer in yellow attention-grabbing letters, and demands immediate action from them since it won't stay in the chat window forever.
The net effect is to say "STOP EVERYTHING! You spelled a word wrong!"
But I'm betting this isn't what you wanted to say.
I suppose you could try in-game email? You can send one to the character name.
The ultimate problem is of course that you're presenting people with objective evidence that they've made a mistake, which many people have culturally internalized means that they are a socially inadequate waste of flesh.
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I've been a fan of superhero comics nearly all my life. At 41, I still buy and read them more than ever. I'm not a huge roleplayer, but I do tend to design my heroes and villains around a good character concept rather than optimizing them for killing stuff.
I'm afraid every MMO probably has its share of players who just aren't into the genre. I imagine there are fantasy fans playing WOW asking themselves "doesn't anyone here like fantasy fiction?" right now. Fortunately, I mostly solo or play with friends who are also comic fans, so I don't really care what the rest of the playerbase feels about the genre. I can see where it would be an issue for you if you team a lot, but it sounds like you've already been steered toward the roleplaying server.
I don't agree that the costume creator is unduly biased toward the 90's era of gritty comics. One of the things I love about this game is that it gives you the freedom to create heroes from all across the spectrum of superhero comcis. I am personally a fan of the Silver Age, and have had no problem creating characters with a Silver Age look and feel.
Anyway, welcome to the game. I'm sure it won't take long for you to find other players who appreciate and share your love of comics.
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More to the point, in a video game, it's not chauvinist to assume that everyone you run into is male until proven otherwise. It's fact. More men play than women. Tell me you're a woman, and if I believe you, I'll call you her and she when referring to you.|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
Hear! Hear!
People can take there political correctness and shove it. Aside from the fact that it's simply irrelevant in a video game, he is used by default. |
If you don't like being confused for one when you're the other, stop being confusing and vague.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
I would default to "they" or "their." Those terms are lot more clear. Especially if you ever find yourself writing social software, because eventually you're going to get stuck with a wildcard name but a gender you don't know, and seeing your program output a ridiculous statement like "Jennifer just updated hir profile!" Facebook, for the record, uses "their" in this exact scenario. And Fergie uses "their" too ("And I'm gonna miss you, like a child misses their blanket.")
A researcher has to be completely objective in their findings.
Some people object to the use of plural pronouns in this type of situation on the grounds that it’s ungrammatical. In fact, the use of plural pronouns to refer back to a singular subject isn’t new: it represents a revival of a practice dating from the 16th century. It’s increasingly common in current English and is now widely accepted both in speech and in writing
See various usage notes from online dictionaries about this issue. For example, here: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/pa...he-versus-they Copy-paste below.
[EDIT: Now contains the correct quote. Sorry about length.]
- You can use the plural pronouns ‘they’, ‘them’, ‘their’ etc., despite the fact that, technically, they are referring back to a singular noun:
A researcher has to be completely objective in their findings.
Some people object to the use of plural pronouns in this type of situation on the grounds that it’s ungrammatical. In fact, the use of plural pronouns to refer back to a singular subject isn’t new: it represents a revival of a practice dating from the 16th century. It’s increasingly common in current English and is now widely accepted both in speech and in writing
As for comic books? I was maybe a fan a few decades ago, but we didnt have MMOs then. 
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<recalls the warriors of Asgard fighting the fire demons of Surtur in the streets of New York City
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Originally Posted by BrandX
This is true. The problem is, in such a setting, the Ogre Barbarian from Fantasy land is a rarity in super hero comics.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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It's a game based on super hero genre, it's not a game "about comic books". |
Originally Posted by PoisonPen
, but I'm frankly baffled that on a game which is supposed to be about comic books...
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Super heroes, especially these days, transcend comic books.
For the record, I grew up loving comic books...and still love the ones I grew up on. I couldn't care less about them today.
In reply to the original question and original post, yes, I love comic books.
- I've been reading comics since the mid 1970s.
- I currently have about 4,000 comic books, and would be closer to 10,000 if I hadn't sold most of my collection in the late '90s.
- I buy between 6 and 12 titles monthly.
- I typically attend 2-4 comic book conventions every year.
- Most of my CoX characters are classically comic-bookish, have comics-inspired names, and have bios recounting their origin story.
I was as surprised as you, PoisonPen when I found out how many players in game don't like/don't read comics. Over time I realized many came from other games, or were just interested in playing an MMO regardless of the genre. While I was a pen and paper D&D addict for the better part of three decades, I never found fantasy-based video games interesting.
As for people obsessing over shards, and merits and what have you, I don't find that to be mutually exclusive to enjoying being a superhero. I often "obsess" over those same things, but I mainly play the game to be a super powered hero or villain, and those things are just a means to an end.
It's probably already been said, but if you want roleplay, head over to Virtue. Not sure how many people you'll find who can tell you which issues of Amazing Spider-Man didn't carry the CCA seal, or what blue kryptonite does to Superman, but you're likely to find more people "being" superheroes than "playing" superheroes.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
The Comic books you mean (Western style)? Hate 'em. Comic Books in other Cultures? Love 'em spend hours a day reading Mangas and Manwhas.
I play because the game is fun. That it happens to deal with 'super hero' types is incidental. In fact I wouldn't have bought City of Heroes. I only bought city of Villains. I like being evil.
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That is an outlier. Marvel's Thor was specifically created as an experiment in meshing super hero and fantasy/myth. He was infused heavily with super hero tropes; a secret identity, plenty of 'science villains' to balance the fantasy frost giants, etc.|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
<recalls the warriors of Asgard fighting the fire demons of Surtur in the streets of New York City
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There have been comics about truckers and football too...
http://www.comicvine.com/us-1/49-3246/
http://www.comicvine.com/nfl-superpro/49-20476/
...but that doesn't made Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing and Madden an automatic fit for CoH.
Also, one of the main draws of Thor was that he was such a fish out of water and unique being a fantasy hero in a super hero world. To contrast, I've seen so many vampires, elf rogues, Neos, Spartans (Halo and 300) anime fighters and whatever that western comic book super heroes (of any age, gold, silver, dark, post modern) seem to me to be the minority in game now.
I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone see a problem with a super hero game 'not really' having super heroes in it like the box art and loading screen would lead one to think. I also don't think it's OK to blow off that opinion if someone has a higher or lower standard about what they consider a super hero is.
That cuts both ways. You also can't blame people for creating the characters they do, or considering Cloud a super hero.
Still, I can't help wishing this game had more...focus.
Flip it around. Try to make a 'super hero' in WoW. It doesn't work very well. No true flight or iconic travel powers. No classic powers like super strength, an unarmed 'Batman' would be uber gimp. You're bound by their very limited costume system of armors. If you named your character Captain Dynamo, they'd throw you off the RP servers in a heart beat.
Flip it back around. It's pretty easy to approximate a fantasy character in CoH, in looks and powers. We've got a large armory of fantasy weapons available and for most RPers, almost anything goes in terms of what's a valid character concept and name.
IMO, you can have too much flexibility. It can dilute immersion. I'm of the opinion it has in this game. YMMV.
But, the bottom line is, if you allow for it, players will do it. If you are a GMing a D&D-esque fantasy game and you allow a character to drive a muscle car and wield a shotgun, you may as well throw setting and theme out of the window. And, claiming they had it in Army of Darkness is a very weak defense. Can you blame someone who *is* a fan of legit fantasy for complaining? That's why those game has someone set aside to decide what isn't 'legit' and what fits.
The thing is, here, we don't have a GM. We have devs. And I still have to ask if they're truly into the super hero genre.
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The thing is superhero names mean different things to different people. Personally I find that in a city which has hundreds of heroes registered by the government that the idea of an actual code name strains my suspension of disbelief. As such most of my characters do heroics under their own name which I generally make up to sounds good and where possible be evocative of who they are (i.e. my Earth/Storm Controller is called Empocledes Mastric).|
Originally Posted by PoisonPen
They create stupid or boring names (some of them don't even bother to think of superhero names, they use what appears to be a name chosen randomly from a phone book), and can't be bothered to create even the most basic background.
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As for bios, remember that not everyone likes writing. Most of my characters have bios, I just rarely bother to write them down.
I personally love that this game is an anything-goes metaverse.
And of course Thor was an outlier; fiction gets to focus on singular stars and make them as unique and special as they want. MMOs by their nature can't and have to make allowances for the fact that there are thousands of caped rats running around.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I don't think we need to ask if they are truly into your interpretation of it: I'll go out on a limb and say "no."|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The thing is, here, we don't have a GM. We have devs. And I still have to ask if they're truly into the super hero genre.
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They do come closer to my interpretation of it, so at least they are batting .500 there.
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