Tron: Legacy First Impression (No Spoilers!)
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-12-17 12:50 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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You say you've discussed each point I bring up, and in the next sentence, claim I never argue a point. Which is it? Oh, and if I'm quote-mining here, let me know.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Rylas, I have always discussed each point you bring up. I keep on forgetting you are not actually interested in discussing anything and you never actually argue any point.
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Now, there was this post in which I went and made plenty of points you ignore. Which is where I guess you must have been referring to when you say:
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| You simply disagree again and again, expecting to piss me off, but instead I stop the conversation and just leave it at saying that you have made several fallacies and there is no reason to discuss them because you know what you are doing. |
Now, sometimes you try to be elusive by stringing together a bunch of words with no really comprehensible meaning, like you'll trick us into believing you made a point. Such as this post I already pointed out which you didn't feel needed clarification:
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Originally Posted by Durakken
And the graphics.. My point is that Tron shouldn't be using anything hard to do so if they are even remotely commentable as "bad" it shows that they are far worse than what people think because they are so standard and easy... and if they are going beyond the standard and easy they are trying too hard.
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| ...I always defend every point I make and change my mind when shown to be wrong. That to me sounds an awful lot like... oh, whats the quote, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." |
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Originally Posted by Durakken
#1. Unlike some people... actually most people... I am open to being proven wrong and changing my mind on anything.
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| #2. I've not made up my mind. I have said what I think based on what I know. |
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| #3. The reason people are disappointed or whatever are because they state something as such and don't want to be wrong so they maintain their position regardless. I don't do that. I take in things on their own merits, not based on what other people say or even what I have thought previously. I have fun because something is fun, not because I thought I would have fun with something. |
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Have you watched any of Spoony's reviews?|
Originally Posted by Hallowed
I'm not talking about the fact that he tries to be "edgy" by constantly cursing. I'm not talking about the fact that he rambles on in a full-blown, unending, semi-incoherent ADD episode.
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Calling him out for cursing and mad-ranting is like calling out Dr. Doom for speaking in the third person. It's his schtick.
I'm sorry for going off topic, but it always rubs me the wrong way when people criticize an internet reviewer in this way. It's not like he did something offensive or anything; he did what he always does. Only difference is that this time he did it to something you like.
This isn't Roger Ebert here. Spoony, Yahtzee, the Nostalgia Critic, the Angry Video Game Nerd.... all their stuff is at least half meant to entertain. Spoony goes off on rants cause it's funny. Yahtzee makes snide comments and dislikes everything because it's funny.
Oh no, they've ragged on something you enjoyed!
Nut up, laugh at how upset he gets over it, and have a little more confidence in your own opinion. Geez, if I whined everytime Yahtzee ripped apart a game I liked, I would've been banned for spamming by now.
I haven't seen Tron: Legacy yet either. I probably will eventually just cause it looks cool as all get out. But I WILL say that I was disappointed they went for the easy stuff. Everything from the matrix-fighting to the hoop-discs is what I always figured they'd do with a new Tron.
That doesn't make it bad or anything, just a little.... predictable. I guess I was just hoping for a "oh, that's kinda neat" twist or something. The evolution of programs was a cool idea, but it doesn't sound like much was done with it. And no, that isn't based on Spoony's review, but from many sources INCLUDING ones that LIKED the movie.
Still, looks like a slick ride, so I'll still check it out. Just with lower expectations; which will probably mean I'll enjoy it more.
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It should not be a action blockbuster. That's the first mistake they made.|
Originally Posted by Hallowed
The plot for the movie isn't great. It's not particularly bad, but it's got similar flaws that you will find in most high-production, action blockbusters.
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| However, it does seem to stay solidly within its own logic. If you can accept the concept of humans being digitized into a living, breathing computer world, then you should not have problems with any of the other more far-fetched concepts the movie advances. |
Me:
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| I'm not talking about the fact that he tries to be "edgy" by constantly cursing. I'm not talking about the fact that he rambles on in a full-blown, unending, semi-incoherent ADD episode. |
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Originally Posted by Cowman
Have you watched any of Spoony's reviews?
Calling him out for cursing and mad-ranting is like calling out Dr. Doom for speaking in the third person. It's his schtick. I'm sorry for going off topic, but it always rubs me the wrong way when people criticize an internet reviewer in this way. It's not like he did something offensive or anything; he did what he always does. Only difference is that this time he did it to something you like. This isn't Roger Ebert here. Spoony, Yahtzee, the Nostalgia Critic, the Angry Video Game Nerd.... all their stuff is at least half meant to entertain. Spoony goes off on rants cause it's funny. Yahtzee makes snide comments and dislikes everything because it's funny. Oh no, they've ragged on something you enjoyed! Nut up, laugh at how upset he gets over it, and have a little more confidence in your own opinion. Geez, if I whined everytime Yahtzee ripped apart a game I liked, I would've been banned for spamming by now. |
Also, while I find Yahtzee entertaining, Spoony, at least in this case, is completely not so. But hey, YMMV.
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To be honest, it's really not funny anymore. It's very tiring, actually.|
Originally Posted by Cowman
Have you watched any of Spoony's reviews?
Calling him out for cursing and mad-ranting is like calling out Dr. Doom for speaking in the third person. It's his schtick. I'm sorry for going off topic, but it always rubs me the wrong way when people criticize an internet reviewer in this way. It's not like he did something offensive or anything; he did what he always does. Only difference is that this time he did it to something you like. This isn't Roger Ebert here. Spoony, Yahtzee, the Nostalgia Critic, the Angry Video Game Nerd.... all their stuff is at least half meant to entertain. Spoony goes off on rants cause it's funny. Yahtzee makes snide comments and dislikes everything because it's funny. |
As for me, it's rather obvious that these reviewers are purposefully exploding with rage at things that aren't even worth raging about for the entertainment of it. Never said otherwise myself (I'm aware you weren't responding to me.) I really don't care if they rip apart a movie I like, though I'm sure I might like it for a movie I hate. Can't really think of the last time I could muster up enough emotion to bother "hating" a movie. The last one was...well, I'd better not.
I think that really is the issue though. A lot of us are fully aware that Spoony, etc are really for entertainment, not facts and reasoning. That's exactly why it gets even stranger that someone would actually base their entire understanding of a movie from someone who is going to go out of their way to hate it.
I will say that I think any such review would be much better if it commented on what was actually in the movie, as opposed to either making stuff up or conveniently ignoring scenes and exposition. I haven't actually seen Spoony's review, though, so I guess I can't speak with any authority about how right/wrong he was.
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(do u c wat i did thar?)
We often sit and think of you,
We often speak your name;
There is nothing left to answer,
But your photo in the frame.
-Anon.
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Until you've actually seen it, your opinion really doesn't count for anything, because you don't actually know what you're talking about. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
It should not be a action blockbuster. That's the first mistake they made.
Far fetched concepts are not what anyone is complaining about at all. It's that internally specific things don't make any sense. |
You don't know if there actually are plot holes. You're just parroting what Spoony said. And, given that I've seen the movie twice now, I can safely say that much of what he says is factually wrong, incomplete, or, in some cases, just made up (which is the crux of my issues with his "review").
To anyone who's actually seen the movie, I'm perfectly willing to engage in a PM conversation (so as to keep spoilers out of this thread). I noticed a few minor plot holes, but nothing significant. That doesn't mean I might not have overlooked something.
People, people, people, this is TRON we're talking about here. No need to argue. Share the love that it was even made!
Oh wait, its TRON! and we're geeks,
...right...
Carry on.
So lets go with this...
True or False?
The Portal is closed pre-movie and is open for 8 hours once Sam comes through?
The Portal can't be opened from within the Grid?
To get out of the Grid one just has to leave through the Portal?
If the above is False then the Identity Disc is needed to modify the Portal?
The Identity Disc is created within the grid (not a spoiler as this is in Tron)?
The Identity Disc of Kevin Flynn is special because... he came from the real world, thus having data from an actual person?
Sam Flynn has an identity disc?
That is all true and that creates a giant plot-hole.
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o.0|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Far fetched concepts are not what anyone is complaining about at all. It's that internally specific things don't make any sense.
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The movie had a number of flaws and bits of unintended silliness (i found myself rolling my eyes at several points going "really?"), but i'm not really sure what you're referring to here. Then again i viewed the movie firsthand instead of using other people's reviews as my source, so perhaps your knowledge is more detailed and comprehensive.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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No as far as I was aware, it was different because he had added what are effectively dev tools to the disk. He created that world from scratch and gave him self the tools to shape it.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
The Identity Disc of Kevin Flynn is special because... he came from the real world, thus having data from an actual person?
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See bold.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
So lets go with this...
True or False? False The Portal is closed pre-movie and is open for 8 hours once Sam comes through? Roughly yes. The Portal can't be opened from within the Grid? Yes. To get out of the Grid one just has to leave through the Portal? Yes. If the above is False then the Identity Disc is needed to modify the Portal? Above is true, so question is technically irrelevant, yet also relevant when true. (See below.) The Identity Disc is created within the grid (not a spoiler as this is in Tron)? Created from the owner's data, yes. The Identity Disc of Kevin Flynn is special because... he came from the real world, thus having data from an actual person? It's special because he's the creator of the grid and has various superuser privileges beyond simply being a user. (Being a user already confers some special qualities compared to normal programs, but isn't really used in the movie.) Sam Flynn has an identity disc? Yes. That is all true and that creates a giant plot-hole. Uh, what? Still not seeing it. |
Edit-
As Cass also posted:
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Originally Posted by Cass_
No as far as I was aware, it was different because he had added what are effectively dev tools to the disk. He created that world from scratch and gave him self the tools to shape it.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Ah, so it's like the "no offense" rule.|
Originally Posted by Hallowed
Me:
Before you go off on a rant and accuse me of whining, let's discuss your comprehension of the word "not", shall we? Also, while I find Yahtzee entertaining, Spoony, at least in this case, is completely not so. But hey, YMMV. |
"I find you ugly. No offense."
"WHY WOULD YOU CALL ME UGLY?"
"Dude, chill out. I SAID 'no offense'."
Saw it today, thought it was not too bad. The music was good, it looked pretty, the story was... passable. It shared a similar, strangely languid pacing with the original. Though, I wasn't that convinced by the threat of the baddie, that could have been better thought out.
Also, wish our cinema had been showing it in 2D, hate going to see films in 3D.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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When geeks argue, they're all the Comic Book Guy.|
Originally Posted by QuietAmerican
People, people, people, this is TRON we're talking about here. No need to argue. Share the love that it was even made!
Oh wait, its TRON! and we're geeks, ...right... Carry on. |
"Worst. Sequel. EVER!"
(For the record, I thought it was awesome and I must see it again, but I don't think I want to go into what I think here on this board. You Comic Book Guys would just get filled with yet more nerd rage!)
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Nothing above the bolded is false, thus you are creating a plot-hole where there is none. CLU's reasoning behind getting Flynn's disc is very well explained in the movie you have not yet seen but are already reviewing. I could break the "no spoilers" rule (which I have already slightly broken in my first post) and spell it out to you, but I think I'll just let you solve your own mystery.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
So lets go with this...
True or False? The Portal is closed pre-movie and is open for 8 hours once Sam comes through? The Portal can't be opened from within the Grid? To get out of the Grid one just has to leave through the Portal? If the above is False then the Identity Disc is needed to modify the Portal? The Identity Disc is created within the grid (not a spoiler as this is in Tron)? The Identity Disc of Kevin Flynn is special because... he came from the real world, thus having data from an actual person? Sam Flynn has an identity disc? That is all true and that creates a giant plot-hole. |
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More like "I'm not saying you're ugly", "I'm not saying you're rude", "I am saying you don't know what you're talking about."|
Originally Posted by Cowman
Ah, so it's like the "no offense" rule.
"I find you ugly. No offense." "WHY WOULD YOU CALL ME UGLY?" "Dude, chill out. I SAID 'no offense'." |
Now (by those statements), the person in question may (or may not) be ugly and/or rude, but they're definitely clueless.
I used my "it's not" statements in an attempt to prevent people from assuming that those issues were the basis for my objections to the "review".
Sadly, I did not foresee the confusion that my use of the term "not" would cause. My failing... clearly.
This is funny....I don't think I've ever seen someone so passionately argue the "flaws" of a movie they haven't seen.
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Just ignore Dur and move on, that's what i did.
So the identity disc that Kevin has is the only one that can exit the grid despite the disc being created by the grid and would have created a similar one for Sam, but Sam's couldn't be used because? And the grid couldn't create another one because? and Kevin was just gonna let Sam get stuck in the grid because?
Sam's Identity Disc would have been the exact same or very similar to Kevin's and thus CLU, once again, could have just taken the his disc and left...
If you don't see any of the problems with that ooook...
And Obiwan is right, if you don't like my position you could always just ignore me and not respond saying I'm wrong without pointing out where I am, even though I've checked and other places say that is how it happens.
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I think it is more along the lines of Kevin's having the master code on it which is what Clu wants.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
So the identity disc that Kevin has is the only one that can exit the grid despite the disc being created by the grid and would have created a similar one for Sam, but Sam's couldn't be used because? And the grid couldn't create another one because? and Kevin was just gonna let Sam get stuck in the grid because?
Sam's Identity Disc would have been the exact same or very similar to Kevin's and thus CLU, once again, could have just taken the his disc and left... If you don't see any of the problems with that ooook... |
All of which goes into spoiler territoy.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Instead of frothing about it on in internet forum, why not just go and see the damn movie, Dur?
We're just saying it's a foolish idea to form an opinion based off someone else's opinion. Instead of doing the research yourself.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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*spoilers incoming*|
Originally Posted by Durakken
So the identity disc that Kevin has is the only one that can exit the grid despite the disc being created by the grid and would have created a similar one for Sam, but Sam's couldn't be used because? And the grid couldn't create another one because? and Kevin was just gonna let Sam get stuck in the grid because?
Sam's Identity Disc would have been the exact same or very similar to Kevin's and thus CLU, once again, could have just taken the his disc and left... If you don't see any of the problems with that ooook... And Obiwan is right, if you don't like my position you could always just ignore me and not respond saying I'm wrong without pointing out where I am, even though I've checked and other places say that is how it happens. |
An ID disc stores all the accumulated knowledge of its wearer, whether program or user. Kevin's disc has the code necessary to allow a digital being to leave the grid and become a biological entity. This is why CLU wants it. So he can take his newly created army and make the real world "perfect". This allowed Quorra to leave the grid when Kevin traded discs with her.
*spoilers end*
Did that fill your gaping plot-hole?
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Doubtful.
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Originally Posted by Alpha-One
Did that fill your gaping plot-hole? |
Oh, I understand that a lot of the drubbing is Durraken's own making, but even in the criticism of the criticism Durraken has read, there's an underlying tone of hostility. Still, best not to dwell on that point, as I am probably just overly sensitive. It's not often i find myself on the "other" side of a geek cultural event.
The plot for the movie isn't great. It's not particularly bad, but it's got similar flaws that you will find in most high-production, action blockbusters.
However, it does seem to stay solidly within its own logic. If you can accept the concept of humans being digitized into a living, breathing computer world, then you should not have problems with any of the other more far-fetched concepts the movie advances.
No, the problems I had were with the internal logic. I'll grant that I may have missed something, as there were a few scenes that I had missed. So, perhaps I'm wrong about them, but still, it doesn't feel right.
In the end, the biggest problem I had with the movie was that it did not entertain men and I was not drawn into the world.