Tron: Legacy First Impression (No Spoilers!)
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-12-17 12:50 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Not on the internet! We pre-judge without having seen/heard/read anything. Silly wabbit.
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Originally Posted by Furio
Just for my own edification...generally speaking, in order to determine if a story has a pole hole, one needs to have seen/heard/read said story in it's entirety, right? Because otherwise, one might have missed a part of the story that explains a potential incongruity...that *is* how it's supposed to work, right?
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Yeah, that's EXACTLY the kind of character Flynn is. That traitorous, free love, zen-spouting, pacifistic hippie family man. Abandoning his only son is PRECISELY what such a character would do.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
v.v So Kevin just going to let Sam be stuck in the grid. Great character there...
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::: eye roll :::
Jeez louise but you are sounding more ridiculous by the post, Dur. You really need to stop.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Hey, I'm just goin' by what people have told me.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I think I speak for everyone who saw the film when I say this in response to that:
... 0.o |
People who LIKED the movie.
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I had stopped bothering posting because of the futility of arguing over a movie with someone who has not seen it, yet created their own ideas and points about it. It was all so...strange.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Yeah, that's EXACTLY the kind of character Flynn is. That traitorous, free love, zen-spouting, pacifistic hippie family man. Abandoning his only son is PRECISELY what such a character would do.
::: eye roll ::: |
What you're pointing out is precisely why I just shrugged and went to eat a snack. Why is Dur so sure that Kevin ditched Sam in The Grid? What makes him think Kevin even brought Sam to The Grid in the first place? Why would Sam's disc be the same as Kevin's? That doesn't even make sense, given what the discs actually are. Unless Sam and his dad worked side-by-side on all of the projects involving The Grid (SPOILER ALERT!: he didn't).
Just to bring this thread back around, I liked Tron. Enough to be tempted to see it again with my fiance. So, to re-ask a question, is the 3D version any good? If I'm to see it again, I may as well get the full effect. I get free movie passes and only have to pay a few extra dollars for 3D, so it's not a big hit for me to see it that way.
If the 3D is like most of the movies I've seen and you forget it's even in 3D about 5 minutes in, then that's pointless. However, there are a lot of large, open scenes in Tron, which to me is where 3D can really shine. I've heard mixed results, just hoping for more opinions on the 3D.
We often sit and think of you,
We often speak your name;
There is nothing left to answer,
But your photo in the frame.
-Anon.
It's the more subtle depth of field style of 3D, a'la Avatar. Saw it in Imax, and am going again tonight.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Jeez louise but you are sounding more ridiculous by the post, Dur. You really need to stop. GO SEE THE MOVIE!!! |
fixed, and seconded.
Basing an opinion on a review done by someone else is like a book reviewer doing a review on the Cliff Notes version. "It was decent enough, but it was very light on plot exposition and character development." Yes, you moron, it was the highlights. If you want more, read the entire book.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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To be fair those hobos really needed killing too.|
Originally Posted by Cowman
Sorry, I got here first, see. So when I THOUGHT I was warning you before, I was actually killing hobos.
Funny old world, ain't it?  |
i may go see Tron again, but probably not in 3D. i was lucky in that a friend had some movie passes that were about to expire so we used the passes and didn't actually have to pay the $15 that seeing it in 3D would normally have cost.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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The 3D version isn't worth it. It's not bad, but it's no Avatar. The entire first part of the movie is is 2D anyway. The specifically point that out at the beginning of the movie, in fact.
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Originally Posted by Ossuary
Just to bring this thread back around, I liked Tron. Enough to be tempted to see it again with my fiance. So, to re-ask a question, is the 3D version any good? If I'm to see it again, I may as well get the full effect. I get free movie passes and only have to pay a few extra dollars for 3D, so it's not a big hit for me to see it that way.
If the 3D is like most of the movies I've seen and you forget it's even in 3D about 5 minutes in, then that's pointless. However, there are a lot of large, open scenes in Tron, which to me is where 3D can really shine. I've heard mixed results, just hoping for more opinions on the 3D. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Wondered if that little blurb was really necessary. Me, I went to see the 3D version and enjoyed it but do agree with Ironik that there really isn't much to separate it from the 2D version.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
The 3D version isn't worth it. It's not bad, but it's no Avatar. The entire first part of the movie is is 2D anyway. The specifically point that out at the beginning of the movie, in fact.
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Paragon Unleashed Forums
Twitter: @Alpha_Ryvius
Watched it...
It's worse than I thought. Bad story, didn't keep to the premise, had a bad metaphor, and the one point that could have been good, the action, was just terribly boring.
And while the plot hole wasn't the exact same as what I thought it was...it was still bad and still related to the same thing.
The only thing I've heard actually praised about this movie is the music and the flashiness being something appealing to watch while high. I can't comment on the latter but the former it was only an alright sound track.
And I remember someone saying that "it showed new computer stuff"... No it didn't, and if you saw something that did then it shouldn't have been in the movie. The system they are on is from the 80s. It couldn't have because it wasn't updated with the latest tech or even moderately new tech soooo yeah no it didn't, and if it did it shouldn't have.
I was expecting a bad story, got worse, and I was expecting a fun ride and instead got a snooze fest with what 4 action scenes that clearly shows the director doesn't understand how to make things exciting.
So...
Potential: 5/5 in terms of all movies
Expecting: 3/5 for the demographic it was going for
Actually got: 1.5/5
Only reason i'm not giving it a 1 or a 0 is because I've seen worse, but usually they have no potential to start with.
Oh and the CGI Flynn thing. It happened mainly when they changed angles while still in the same shot that he went into uncanny valley territory... but when they maintained the angle which they were originally shooting from, whatever it was, it looked fine.
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You should have seen it in theaters instead of pirating it off the internet.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Watched it...
It's worse than I thought. Bad story, didn't keep to the premise, had a bad metaphor, and the one point that could have been good, the action, was just terribly boring. And while the plot hole wasn't the exact same as what I thought it was...it was still bad and still related to the same thing. The only thing I've heard actually praised about this movie is the music and the flashiness being something appealing to watch while high. I can't comment on the latter but the former it was only an alright sound track. And I remember someone saying that "it showed new computer stuff"... No it didn't, and if you saw something that did then it shouldn't have been in the movie. The system they are on is from the 80s. It couldn't have because it wasn't updated with the latest tech or even moderately new tech soooo yeah no it didn't, and if it did it shouldn't have. I was expecting a bad story, got worse, and I was expecting a fun ride and instead got a snooze fest with what 4 action scenes that clearly shows the director doesn't understand how to make things exciting. So... Potential: 5/5 in terms of all movies Expecting: 3/5 for the demographic it was going for Actually got: 1.5/5 Only reason i'm not giving it a 1 or a 0 is because I've seen worse, but usually they have no potential to start with. Oh and the CGI Flynn thing. It happened mainly when they changed angles while still in the same shot that he went into uncanny valley territory... but when they maintained the angle which they were originally shooting from, whatever it was, it looked fine. |
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Right, because that has anything to do with what I said.|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
You should have seen it in theaters instead of pirating it off the internet.
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Firstly, I never said whether I pirated or watched in a theatre so whatever.
Secondly, the only things you could perhaps be thinking is that a loud big screen will change ones perspective on pacing. I'm sorry, but if a movie is ****** it's ****** on large or small screen even if you were to say that big screen may make it better... If it's not good on a small screen then the director failed just as much. And we're not talking about something that is made better by a big screen to begin with. I'm not talking about the 5 minute snooze fest scene that is to establish the grid or the other horrible scenes that just dragged. I'm talking specifically about the action scenes, they weren't exiting at all and they would have in no way been made better by one way or the other. The establishing shots were just boring, but those are the shots that would have been better on the big screen for breath taking, but they weren't. Those establishing shots were just, boring and yawn inducing, compared to say Star Wars which has breath taking establishing scenes that you really need the big screen to get across. (And yes i don't like Star Wars either, but that schlock is a lot better than this movie could ever hope to be with these people.)
The other thing is you might be talking about the CGI Flynn comment which is not true either because it's a facial morph/texture issue type thing. Basically it looks like they got cocky, got it looking right with one angle and then ignored the secondary angle. You could argue resolution and graininess effects the video, but that's idiotic because a CGI face looks different from a real face even through distortion and while trying to get it to look exactly the same.
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What a surprise, you didn't enjoy it.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Watched it...
It's worse than I thought. Bad story, didn't keep to the premise, had a bad metaphor, and the one point that could have been good, the action, was just terribly boring. And while the plot hole wasn't the exact same as what I thought it was...it was still bad and still related to the same thing. The only thing I've heard actually praised about this movie is the music and the flashiness being something appealing to watch while high. I can't comment on the latter but the former it was only an alright sound track. And I remember someone saying that "it showed new computer stuff"... No it didn't, and if you saw something that did then it shouldn't have been in the movie. The system they are on is from the 80s. It couldn't have because it wasn't updated with the latest tech or even moderately new tech soooo yeah no it didn't, and if it did it shouldn't have. I was expecting a bad story, got worse, and I was expecting a fun ride and instead got a snooze fest with what 4 action scenes that clearly shows the director doesn't understand how to make things exciting. So... Potential: 5/5 in terms of all movies Expecting: 3/5 for the demographic it was going for Actually got: 1.5/5 Only reason i'm not giving it a 1 or a 0 is because I've seen worse, but usually they have no potential to start with. Oh and the CGI Flynn thing. It happened mainly when they changed angles while still in the same shot that he went into uncanny valley territory... but when they maintained the angle which they were originally shooting from, whatever it was, it looked fine. |
But the real question is, was the plot-hole you expected filled?
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And what was the plot hole you saw?
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Originally Posted by Alpha-One
What a surprise, you didn't enjoy it.
But the real question is, was the plot-hole you expected filled? |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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I personally didn't see any, or at least my knowledge of the franchise and imagination filled any gaps well enough for me not to notice.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
And what was the plot hole you saw?
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This part is so full of fail it's hard to know where to begin. The big screen has so much more power than a monitor or a TV screen that it's not even a contest.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
. If it's not good on a small screen then the director failed just as much. And we're not talking about something that is made better by a big screen to begin with.
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The movie Grand Canyon is absolutely full of menace and lurking disaster. On the big screen it's present in every single shot, but on TV it's almost entirely absent because it's diminished by the size. I told this to my parents who'd seen the movie on HBO. They decided to go see it at the local art theatre and were blown away by the inherent scariness. Which is the point of the film.
Rudolph Valentino had such charisma that it's nearly impossible to imagine any current actor standing side by side with him onscreen and keeping your attention. In Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse he plays a Lothario trying to convince one of his many lovers that he's not really cheating on her. Near the end of his speech he says, "Trust me," and turns to the camera to give a little wink. On TV it's a cute moment. In the theatre, I've yet to see an audience *not* fall all about in hysterics because it's just that powerful of a moment.
If you've never experienced it, it's the difference between watching a roller coaster on TV and strapping into one. You don't know what you're missing.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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I meant Durakken. He didn't see one, but it'll be fun to beat him bloody with his misunderstanding.
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Originally Posted by Alpha-One
I personally didn't see any, or at least my knowledge of the franchise and imagination filled any gaps well enough for me not to notice.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Ok,
Flynn's miracle was what?
Was it
A) He cracked the genetic algorithm and quantum teleportation
B) He discovered the ISOs and they were something
C) He discovered a way for programs to leave the Grid
How bout...
Why did Flynn want to stay in the Grid?
Why was the only way to destroy CLU to kill himself?
Why did CLU care that Flynn got the disc back he had the knowledge he needed because he saw what was on the disc thus he had that knowledge and no longer needed the disc?
And that's not even discussing the stupidity of Sam's character at the beginning, or the dual identity Discs that so many have... and use to fight with (but that they fight with is acceptable cuz it was at least nonsense from the first movie), or any other number of stupid points in it.
While Spoony is wrong about the disc thing, most of everything else he said is right so it seems to me you guys just don't like opposing opinions.
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I was trying not to say anything, but this is ridiculous. Question one, A has the potential to happen because of B. Flynn wanted to stay because it was a revolutionary new world. Clu was created from himself, and reintegrating him was too difficult a process to endure. Clu only read it once. Can you perfectly recreate quantam physics after seeing it once? It was blatantly obvious that there was only one character with identity discs. Please watch the movie next time.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Ok,
Flynn's miracle was what? Was it A) He cracked the genetic algorithm and quantum teleportation B) He discovered the ISOs and they were something C) He discovered a way for programs to leave the Grid How bout... Why did Flynn want to stay in the Grid? Why was the only way to destroy CLU to kill himself? Why did CLU care that Flynn got the disc back he had the knowledge he needed because he saw what was on the disc thus he had that knowledge and no longer needed the disc? And that's not even discussing the stupidity of Sam's character at the beginning, or the dual identity Discs that so many have... and use to fight with (but that they fight with is acceptable cuz it was at least nonsense from the first movie), or any other number of stupid points in it. While Spoony is wrong about the disc thing, most of everything else he said is right so it seems to me you guys just don't like opposing opinions. |
Edit: I would like to apologize for the outburst. I was just really hoping to discuss this movie, which I greatly enjoyed. Instead we've kind of hit a dead end.
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Ironik, I said there are some things that are effected by the screen, but almost everything in this movie was not those things. A few things were, but those were yawn inducing establishing shots that didn't instill in you the wonder of the scene but rather they were just long and boring. |
Originally Posted by Ironik
This part is so full of fail it's hard to know where to begin. The big screen has so much more power than a monitor or a TV screen that it's not even a contest.
The movie Grand Canyon is absolutely full of menace and lurking disaster. On the big screen it's present in every single shot, but on TV it's almost entirely absent because it's diminished by the size. I told this to my parents who'd seen the movie on HBO. They decided to go see it at the local art theatre and were blown away by the inherent scariness. Which is the point of the film. Rudolph Valentino had such charisma that it's nearly impossible to imagine any current actor standing side by side with him onscreen and keeping your attention. In Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse he plays a Lothario trying to convince one of his many lovers that he's not really cheating on her. Near the end of his speech he says, "Trust me," and turns to the camera to give a little wink. On TV it's a cute moment. In the theatre, I've yet to see an audience *not* fall all about in hysterics because it's just that powerful of a moment. If you've never experienced it, it's the difference between watching a roller coaster on TV and strapping into one. You don't know what you're missing. |
Is the Disc game cool? Sure. Is it exciting? or Scary? never.
Is the Light cycle game cool? Sure, but it's not exciting or dreadful. There is no claustrophobia, no nothing that was supposed to be generated by that thing
Were the fight scenes cool? Sure, but again they weren't exciting. They were too fast and none of them left me feeling anything because I didn't care about any of the characters... Not the dumb *** that Sam is nor the jack *** that Kevin is nor the naive rather dumb character that Quorra is. I can go on but I mean really the characters are just dull and unsympathetic as the ones that your supposed to care about and all the other ones they aren't humanized enough to matter.
What about the Light jets at the end... It was just a repeat of the light cycle thing but worse cuz all the scenes were pulled in to close to the objects and you never get a sense of scale or any tactics being used.
The sad thing is these action moments that would have made the movie so much better if they were done right felt like they were rushed and had they been given time and actual care put into them rather than lets just put on a crappy light show it would have been waaay better. These were the bread and butter of this movie's demographic and yet it was more or less just slapped on to a bad script that contained almost but talking heads that obviously couldn't keep anything they were saying straight.
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PownUnoobs, ISOs are no different than other programs other than they are hated apparently and even if they were they had nothing to do with "genetic algorithms or quantum teleportation." People really need to stop treating quantum mechanics like magic. Also programs could leave the Grid without it which is why Flynn but the portal far away from the city.|
Originally Posted by PownUnoobs
I was trying not to say anything, but this is ridiculous. Question one, A has the potential to happen because of B. Flynn wanted to stay because it was a revolutionary new world. Clu was created from himself, and reintegrating him was too difficult a process to endure. Clu only read it once. Can you perfectly recreate quantam physics after seeing it once? It was blatantly obvious that there was only one character with identity discs. Please watch the movie next time.
Edit: I would like to apologize for the outburst. I was just really hoping to discuss this movie, which I greatly enjoyed. Instead we've kind of hit a dead end. |
And no CLU reading the disc once is more than enough because he would have experienced it and thus his disc would then have that knowledge.
As far as Tron being the only one to use dual identity discs...a faceless character that acts and looks like every other faceless character is "obviously" only one character. If you say so.
Here's my take,
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In the news feeds they had of Kevin giving his speech he was going on about the digital frontier. I think Kevin's intent was to eventually bring real people into the digital world. Before the ISOs showed up at best he was designing the Grid to probably to be like Disneyland, an amusement park of sorts. When the ISOs appeared it opened new possibilities. There is a scene were Flynn heals Quorra by removing a piece of bad code. My speculation is that if CLU had not revolted and allowed Kevin to study and research the ISOs he probably could have developed something like that for humans. Imagine bringing a cancer patient into the Grid, bring up their code, find the program that was causing the cancer, remove it, and viola cancer cured. This is what I thought his intent with the ISO and the Grid were.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Ok,
Flynn's miracle was what? Was it A) He cracked the genetic algorithm and quantum teleportation B) He discovered the ISOs and they were something C) He discovered a way for programs to leave the Grid |
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How bout... Why did Flynn want to stay in the Grid? |
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| Why was the only way to destroy CLU to kill himself? |
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| Why did CLU care that Flynn got the disc back he had the knowledge he needed because he saw what was on the disc thus he had that knowledge and no longer needed the disc? |
Paragon Unleashed Forums
Twitter: @Alpha_Ryvius
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You don't think the ISOs qualify as an AI? You recently had a whole thread on AI, have you tried to apply the questions you asked in that thread to the ISOs?|
Originally Posted by Durakken
PownUnoobs, ISOs are no different than other programs other than they are hated apparently and even if they were they had nothing to do with "genetic algorithms or quantum teleportation."
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Kevin Flynn believes the ISOs have souls, Flynn viewed Quorra as a real person. He hid her, he protected her, he replicated things from the real world just for her. Flynn would and did lay down his life for her.
Before you even saw the movie even decided Quorra was just a computer program and not worth caring about.
Flynn didn't want to leave the Grid and leave Quorra behind, he loved her. Father/daugther or they were banging, doesn't matter. Flynns only goal since the revolt has been the protection, care and education of the last ISO in existence.
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Quorra didn't show any difference between herself and "programs"
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Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
You don't think the ISOs qualify as an AI? You recently had a whole thread on AI, have you tried to apply the questions you asked in that thread to the ISOs?
Kevin Flynn believes the ISOs have souls, Flynn viewed Quorra as a real person. He hid her, he protected her, he replicated things from the real world just for her. Flynn would and did lay down his life for her. Before you even saw the movie even decided Quorra was just a computer program and not worth caring about. Flynn didn't want to leave the Grid and leave Quorra behind, he loved her. Father/daugther or they were banging, doesn't matter. Flynns only goal since the revolt has been the protection, care and education of the last ISO in existence. |
Just see the damn movie already. Prepare your "mea culpa" now if you *truly* are willing to change your mind as you state you are. I doubt that, actually, given how vehemently you're arguing about how terrible this film is.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction