Tron: Legacy First Impression (No Spoilers!)
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-12-17 12:50 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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What other program in that movie was willing to sacrifice their existence for Flynn? Except for Tron's hero turn at the end no other program stepped forward to help Flynn.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Quorra didn't show any difference between herself and "programs"
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Quorra was the only one making choices of her free will, she chose to fight for Flynn. every other program was reprogramed by Clu to oppose Flynn.
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He did remain faceless other than in the flashback but the dual discs were partially meant to show that it was really Tron. There is even a T on the Rinzler's outfit that matches that of Tron.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
As far as Tron being the only one to use dual identity discs...a faceless character that acts and looks like every other faceless character is "obviously" only one character. If you say so.
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Edit: Also, in Tron Evolution, Tron has the upgraded suit that Rinzler is wearing in Tron: Legacy.
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How about the inclusion of the End of the Line Club?
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Originally Posted by Durakken
While Spoony is wrong about the disc thing, most of everything else he said is right so it seems to me you guys just don't like opposing opinions.
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Some of you may find some interest in this article, it is an interview with the screenwriters. They discuss things like the mythology as well as key decisions that they made. One thing they do say is that the club is a way to show evolution within the programs.
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What does being a hero have to do with being different?|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
What other program in that movie was willing to sacrifice their existence for Flynn? Except for Tron's hero turn at the end no other program stepped forward to help Flynn.
Quorra was the only one making choices of her free will, she chose to fight for Flynn. every other program was reprogramed by Clu to oppose Flynn. |
And even if that was the qualification Tron show more "humanity" the Quorra with that change. You know, over coming the reprogramming where as Quorra wasn't programmed to be against anyone so it doesn't show anything for her to just be on Flynn's side.
Serious question for Durakken (or anyone, really, but it applies the most to him in this thread):
Would your opinion of this movie after seeing it still be what it is if you hadn't gone and poisoned your mind with negative reviews of it? You went into it expecting something bad because of what you read/watched on the internet, and then got exactly what you were looking for. What if you had avoided spoilers and just watched the movie with a fresh mind about it? Why would you, or anyone, sabotage any potential enjoyment from watching a movie by learning all you could about it beforehand (especially by watching reviews, which are usually slanted by personal bias)?
Now, my view of this is that you (Durakken) have such a narrow window of what qualifies as "good" (based on other comments you've made in the past about all manner of things) that you wouldn't have liked this movie regardless, but you certainly didn't give it a chance by filling your head with negativity before hand. Am I incorrect?
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
The ISOs were different because they weren't programmed. They came into existence spontaneously.
Which is why CLU hated them - they represented a chaotic random contamination of his perfect world.
It's also why K.Flynn was so fascinated by them.
Also:
"Why did Flynn want to stay in the Grid?"
It was to keep the keys to the portal away from CLU.
"Why was the only way to destroy CLU to kill himself?"
They never said it was the only way, just that it was possible to re-integrate CLU back to Flynn, but the process would likely kill them both.
They weren't going to use that option originally, planning to exit the Grid and shut down CLU from the outside. Flynn did it in the end to keep CLU from entering the portal, because he'd run out of options.
"Why did CLU care if Flynn stole his Disk back?"
Admittedly this one isn't so clear, but from an in-universe standpoint, they'd already established the Disk as the sole key to the portal. The MacGuffin.
As such a mere copy of the disc being usable to open the portal would be "cheating" in a cinematic sense. You don't establish a premise and then proceed to ignore it. That'd be bad storytelling.
-k
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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And no i don't have a narrow window of what i like. You've made that up in your head likely because I don't think LotR and Star Wars are good in their original media forms.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Serious question for Durakken (or anyone, really, but it applies the most to him in this thread):
Would your opinion of this movie after seeing it still be what it is if you hadn't gone and poisoned your mind with negative reviews of it? You went into it expecting something bad because of what you read/watched on the internet, and then got exactly what you were looking for. What if you had avoided spoilers and just watched the movie with a fresh mind about it? Why would you, or anyone, sabotage any potential enjoyment from watching a movie by learning all you could about it beforehand (especially by watching reviews, which are usually slanted by personal bias)? Now, my view of this is that you (Durakken) have such a narrow window of what qualifies as "good" (based on other comments you've made in the past about all manner of things) that you wouldn't have liked this movie regardless, but you certainly didn't give it a chance by filling your head with negativity before hand. Am I incorrect? |
I would have liked/disliked it the same regardless of seeing any review and that is why I don't care about spoilers. They don't effect my opinion of whatever.
If I was at all influenced by reviews I'd love Oblivion, and if I was influenced by other stories under the same name I'd think SW:KotOR was a bad game. And oh let's not forget that I love Star Trek: Enterprise and can't watch Babylon 5. My feelings on all of those, according to you should be the opposite.
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I kinda thought the same thing. Though it wasn't something really something I dwelled on or really cared about in the grand scheme of things. The movie had enough flaws* that some minor thing like this really makes no difference.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
And no CLU reading the disc once is more than enough because he would have experienced it and thus his disc would then have that knowledge.
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*Those flaws include the less-than-thrilling action sequences (IMO) and ignored plot developments from the beginning of the film, not to mention the overall "meh"ness I got from the experience..
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Why did Flynn want to stay in the Grid?
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Why was the only way to destroy CLU to kill himself?
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Ya know... for someone that pretends to wax intellectual about films, you sure do miss the obvious stuff. You sure you actually watched it?
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Code interacting and having unplanned for effects happen. It's a well known thing in programming and is in no way revolutionary...well no more so than discovering the grid.|
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
The ISOs were different because they weren't programmed. They came into existence spontaneously.
Which is why CLU hated them - they represented a chaotic random contamination of his perfect world. It's also why K.Flynn was so fascinated by them. Also: "Why did Flynn want to stay in the Grid?" It was to keep the keys to the portal away from CLU. "Why was the only way to destroy CLU to kill himself?" They never said it was the only way, just that it was possible to re-integrate CLU back to Flynn, but the process would likely kill them both. They weren't going to use that option originally, planning to exit the Grid and shut down CLU from the outside. Flynn did it in the end to keep CLU from entering the portal, because he'd run out of options. "Why did CLU care if Flynn stole his Disk back?" Admittedly this one isn't so clear, but from an in-universe standpoint, they'd already established the Disk as the sole key to the portal. The MacGuffin. As such a mere copy of the disc being usable to open the portal would be "cheating" in a cinematic sense. You don't establish a premise and then proceed to ignore it. That'd be bad storytelling. -k |
Users represent more of the chaos element than ISO than the whole plan was to perfect the grid for Users...That element of chaos would have been seen as a good thing and not a bad thing. CLU would have known this that order and chaos is not the same thing as perfect and flawed.
Flynn stayed in the grid because the portal closed before he could get out. No intelligent person would go "CLU wants to take over the world and he can only do that if I stay in here so I should stay in here even when I have an opportunity to get out because there is risk of getting caught" probability says that the longer you stay in the more likely it is you'll get caught so it is stupid to stay in when you have the chance to leave
The idea of "reintegration" is stupid. What does it do, and why would that be needed with CLU vs another program? even if its a special program that should have nothing to do with Flynn as Flynn isn't a program...at best CLU is a copy and not linked... but whatever.
The disc was never the key to the portal EVER. It was even stated that programs can leave without the disc. So again, the movie should have been over the minute Sam opened the portal from a plot stand point...the movie has no more reason to continue. Well, it does, but not "to get the disc" And the whole master key thing is thrown out the window since Sam was able to access the system without knowing anything.
And that interview shows that the creative team thinks a system that is untouched for 20 years, even the top of the line system, runs and upgrades by itself v.v
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I know the answer to those questions... I asked them for other to think on.
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Originally Posted by ProcessedMeatMan
Ya know... for someone that pretends to wax intellectual about films, you sure do miss the obvious stuff. You sure you actually watched it?
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CLU's idea of "perfection" is pretty clearly the classic idea of machine perfection, perfectly ordered, static, sterile. It's stated in the movie that he plans on imposing the same "perfection" on the outside world. So yes, he does think of users as just as bad if not worse than the ISOs.
I had thought you were asking "Why did Flynn not want to leave as soon as the portal re-opened". Asking why he didn't leave prior to that, when he couldn't leave, would be kinda silly.
Personally, I think besides trying to keep the "key" to the portal away from CLU, Flynn is more than a little afraid of him. You'll notice he tries markedly to avoid a direct confrontation with CLU, up until the very end.
You also clearly missed the bit where CLU looks at Sam's ID Disc and is disappointed that the code to allow programs through the portal isn't there. This indicates that Flynn's disc is special. It's the key to programs leaving the Grid.
They don't explain re-integration beyond the obvious "it fuses Flynn and CLU into one being". They don't have to. It's not important to the story. All that matters about storywise about it is that A) it can stop CLU, and B) it will probably kill Flynn in the process.
I think part of the problem is that you're trying too hard to impose real-world factors on a movie. Tron Legacy follows a lot of classic cinematic tropes. Chaos vs. Order. The MacGuffin. The Mentor's Sacrifice.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
Per the article
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Well, did you guys have to spend any time figuring out how a computer program could physically materialize? Horowitz: We did. We did talk about the idea of what is being reconstituted. There is stuff that you can see in the frame, carbon molecules that are attached to the laser, that are what you are being transferred into and then how that's being turned into energy and then it's a data. And then the question becomes, how is that reverse process working? And in our mind, there was a logic to how on the one hand you can take a corporeal being and turn them into this kind of data, and then we can have a reversal process by taking the data then and say, okay, can't we then reconstitute that into some form of man? Kitsis: And what we decided was, well yes, but it has to merge with the user, in the sense that the only way to get out is with a user disc - and therefore not even Sam's, but the Creator's disc. |
So technically, Quorra has Flynn's body, reformatted to her shape.
That has certain levels of potential ickyness. 
-k
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
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So I saw the Tron, and I liked it!
The music was all kinds of cool, and I loved the club scene (although i got Blade and Matrix flashbacks when the fight scene began.)
Also, i hope this doesnt count as a spoiler, but was that an actual Daft Punk cameo in there? (i'm being vague in the hopes that those that saw it would figure out which two i'm talking about.)
I never got to see the original version but I had no idea that "Reboot" , was a 90s Tron. With that in mind, i was able to pick up a lot of things really fast that probably left my friends for a loop since they pretty much follow the same rules. I wanted a lot more action but i guessing that it was going stay an "eye-candy" movie and probably Disney couldn't turn it into an action flix without some angry parents somewhere. I hope there is a sequel!
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***"When you surround an enemy, leave an outlet free [...] to make him believe there is a road to safety, and thus prevent his fighting with the courage of despair." Sun Tzu ***
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I have to defend Dur here. This just can't be true. Have you seen how much he defends the writing on Smallville?
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Now, my view of this is that you (Durakken) have such a narrow window of what qualifies as "good" (based on other comments you've made in the past about all manner of things) that you wouldn't have liked this movie regardless
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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That would be the narrow window.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
I have to defend Dur here. This just can't be true. Have you seen how much he defends the writing on Smallville?
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Oh, WHF must have been even more sarcastic than I thought.
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Originally Posted by Alpha-One
That would be the narrow window.
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Yeah. That was Daft Punk. They also did the soundtrack.
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Originally Posted by NiVra
So I saw the Tron, and I liked it!
The music was all kinds of cool, and I loved the club scene (although i got Blade and Matrix flashbacks when the fight scene began.) Also, i hope this doesnt count as a spoiler, but was that an actual Daft Punk cameo in there? (i'm being vague in the hopes that those that saw it would figure out which two i'm talking about.) I never got to see the original version but I had no idea that "Reboot" , was a 90s Tron. With that in mind, i was able to pick up a lot of things really fast that probably left my friends for a loop since they pretty much follow the same rules. I wanted a lot more action but i guessing that it was going stay an "eye-candy" movie and probably Disney couldn't turn it into an action flix without some angry parents somewhere. I hope there is a sequel! |
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As I've said, not liking a movie is one thing, but making crap up to "prove" your dislike is ridiculous. There were plenty of long shots and medium shots (and at least one very long shot) during the lightjet fight, and they talked about their tactics. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
What about the Light jets at the end... It was just a repeat of the light cycle thing but worse cuz all the scenes were pulled in to close to the objects and you never get a sense of scale or any tactics being used.
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I really get the impression you watched this movie already hating it, so you didn't actually pay attention to it. The so-called "plot holes" you're talking about don't exist, and criticisms such as the above are just nonsense because the filmmakers very clearly showed the scale of the battle. Remember all those giant oblong cube things? They were larger than skyscrapers and the jets were flying among them. That's what's known as a long shot.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Did you sleep through the explanation of how they came to be? And of what they can do? And why Clu committed genocide against them? Dude, that was the entire middle part of the movie. And, by the way, key to Flynn's character, the essence of the conflict and the point of the plot.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
PownUnoobs, ISOs are no different than other programs other than they are hated apparently and even if they were they had nothing to do with "genetic algorithms or quantum teleportation." People really need to stop treating quantum mechanics like magic. Also programs could leave the Grid without it which is why Flynn but the portal far away from the city.
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You know, it's almost as if you had more information *before* you watched the movie. How can anyone see a movie and miss such obvious things is beyond me.
You sound like this:
"Wait... are you telling me there was an alien in E.T.: The Extraterrestrial?! I call BS!"
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Longshot?|
Originally Posted by Ironik
That's what's known as a long shot.
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Spoilers *must* affect your opinion, because then there are no surprises. Discovery is pretty much the entire point of storytelling. Nevermind plot twists like the Kobayashi Maru reveal in Star Trek II or the "I see dead people" twist of Sixth Sense, the unfolding of the story and revelation of character are why we watch movies and television and read books at all. If you already know what's going to happen, you can't experience that. It's impossible, in fact.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
I would have liked/disliked it the same regardless of seeing any review and that is why I don't care about spoilers. They don't effect my opinion of whatever.
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Therefore spoilers ruin your experience, period. Seeing something cold is always better. Always. Anyone who says differently is wrong.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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I looked Zuse and Castor up, thats really cool! Thanks for sharing that!|
Originally Posted by Ironik
For instance, the End of Line Club that everyone is grousing about -- it helps if you're familiar with WHY Mcihael Sheen's character is named both "Castor" and "Zuse." (People think he's named "Zeus," but that's incorrect.) Those names are chosen for a very specific reason, they weren't picked just because they sound cool. I can see if one isn't aware of what those names mean then you are missing an entire level of meaning in that sequence. Once you know what's going on, it takes on a fuller flavor.
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Originally Posted by Ossuary
Just to bring this thread back around, I liked Tron. Enough to be tempted to see it again with my fiance. So, to re-ask a question, is the 3D version any good? If I'm to see it again, I may as well get the full effect. I get free movie passes and only have to pay a few extra dollars for 3D, so it's not a big hit for me to see it that way.
If the 3D is like most of the movies I've seen and you forget it's even in 3D about 5 minutes in, then that's pointless. However, there are a lot of large, open scenes in Tron, which to me is where 3D can really shine. I've heard mixed results, just hoping for more opinions on the 3D. |
I thought the movie was great. Good plot, very small holes (if any), good action, a whole heap of nostalgia, all mixed with rockin music (Daft Punk FTW! That cameo is awesome too.)
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