Tron: Legacy First Impression (No Spoilers!)

No, because so does Sam's since it has to do with entering the grid, not exiting, and if it has to do with exiting then it shouldn't matter.

The disc stores KNOWLEDGE. Sam doesn't have that knowledge. Kevin did.

v.v So Kevin just going to let Sam be stuck in the grid. Great character there...

Highlight to read:
-----start spoilerblock-----
Only a User can pass through the portal, unless you have the knowledge and experience to re-format a Grid denizen into a User. Kevin Flynn exhibits a number of demi-god-like moments where he can re-format the world around him to a limited degree just by touching stuff. Sam never displays such abilities. Sam's disc is only good for Sam. Kevin's disc, however, contains the knowledge CLU needs to re-format his entire army into the User world.
----- end spoilerblock -----


-np

Kevin is the creator, Sam is just a user.

Let's try again.

Users can enter and exit the grid via the portal.
Programs cannot.
Kevin knows how to make programs exit the grid.
Sam does not.
CLU wants to exit the grid.
CLU needs Kevin's disc to exit the grid.

Not sure where you get this idea that Kevin intended to let Sam get stuck in the grid.

Because he's the Creator.

All that blabber you just said there, I keep telling my daughter that's what we call an ASSUMPTION. Stating as fact knowledge we have generated based on incomplete observation. You are wrong. As stated in the movie you haven't seen, Kevin knows how to let programs out of the grid and has kept that knowledge safe from CLU on his ID disc.

That's great, except that wasn't really what my post was about.

The list you have that you say is NOT what you are objecting to (but decided to mention anyway) I only really referred to in the first line.

The rest of my rant was about how when reviewers bash something someone likes, they often tend to start loudly proclaiming how wrong that person's opinion is. Along with really clever stuff like putting the word review in quotes.

Oh, no no no no. Totally wrong. There's no way Durr would continue arguing that he knows that everybody who has seen the movie and explains to him why what he assumes is a plot hole based on not having seen the movie at all is wrong, and that he know it was not explained, despite what the people who have seen it told him, because he read or watched a review somewhere and that secondhand, very incomplete knowledge is superior to that we know from having actually seen the movie. He obviously is not doing that at all, because he explicitly said that he's more than willing to revise his opinions.

So obviously he's basing his disagreement with those who actually saw the movie on the fact that he knows better than we do, so therefore he has a better source than a review or actually watching the movie. i'm guessing he just got together with the actors, writer, producer, and director and had a long discussion about what they really meant over lunch or something. At which point they revealed to him that they put in all the inconsistencies and plot holes due to a combination of drunkenness, incompetence, and contempt for the fans. (The exact proportions varying.) See? Durr actually does know more about the movie than everyone else.

Gotta respect a guy who is always correct and has the facts to back it up.

Even being the creator of a system doesn't mean you know everything or prepared for everything. If we're going to talk about assumptions it is the one that is made that is made by the movie. CLU knows that Kevin has the ability to do something that we are given no reason to believe he can because other than a character saying he can, a character that has limited knowledge, there is no evidence that he can.

At this point it's has nothing to do with facts. It has to do what you all consider a plot hole is in comparison to what I do. So let's just agree to disagree, because this isn't going to go anywhere.

Fix'ted

*Spoilers! Don't read if you haven't seen this or don't want it spoiled for you. I mean it!*



CLU's abilities were limited. It was stated by Kevin Flynn himself. His main purpose/program was only to continue/complete anything Flynn starts, he couldn't do anything new only repurpous things. As for how to get programs out, Flynn stated he had worked it out. The disc is the personal data storage/partitions for individual programs (think of them as apps in a system), CLU can't access the contents of Flynn's disc remotely he needed to get his hands on it.

I might as well add why the club was there as well. Flynn was creating a new grid safe for users to visit ala Second Life. The Bar is a social area meant for users called "End of the Line" positioned next to the light train that brings user passengers to the exit of the grid. Programs were allowed to go into the bar as well to serve customers and fill out the crowd (kinda like the NPCs in the dance club on CoH).

How can you talk about assumptions when you haven't even watched the movie?

lol.

Welcome to the Internet. Hope your sanity survives the experience.


(Spoiler Warning: It won't.)

Yeah, thanks for warning me decades too late. Jerk.

Except the movie DOES give us reason to believe he CAN in fact do that thing.

A few different times, in fact.

There IS evidence.

GO see the damn movie, instead of trying to form arguments based on patently incorrect information.



-k

Oh, I've got no major complaints about that, myself. I'm just saying it's the most common gripe I've heard.

I think the device works a little like the holodecks and transporters on Star Trek. Energy reconfigured into stable matter and vice-versa. One just needs the appropriate code and authorization to make it work.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill No AT/powerset, AFAIC, is "undesirable." Give me a halfway competent player - or at least one willing to listen and go with the rest of the team - and we're good.

At this point all I can say is, you're wrong.

And all those who've seen the movie know it, so the only person to disagree is the one person who hasn't watched it. However you seem to be completely willing to warp reality to fit the facts you've come up with without any real observation.

Hey let me try it! There's this gaping plot-hole in Star Wars. Somehow people can do weird crap using something called "the Force". But that's not possible, so there's no way they can explain all that stuff that happens in the movies!

Sorry, I got here first, see. So when I THOUGHT I was warning you before, I was actually killing hobos.



Funny old world, ain't it?

The hostility is a reflection of Durakken's attitude on this. Despite several people pointing out how flawed his second-hand arguments are, he keeps attacking people for being "wrong" when he hasn't even bothered to see the movie. I can't respect an opinion like that, based on bad information from someone else. There was no need for Durakken's attitude, frankly, and he deserved the slap-down he's gotten.



Unlike The Matrix, which has gigantic plot holes and a philosophy imposed on it from without, T:L's underlying philosophy stems directly from the characters themselves, growing organically from that seed. Where you see "flat characters" I see people with well-defined motivations and all the actions resulting from those.

You must have missed key scenes. (People leaving mid-movie has always mystified me. Pee first.) The plot is simple, yes, which is one of the reasons it doesn't have these huge holes people keep spouting.

As I mentioned upthread, I think one of the main reasons people find it "complicated" or "hard to understand" or "full of plot holes" is because it doesn't explicitly state things, and you have to bring your own education and intelligence to bear on the goings-on.

For instance, the End of Line Club that everyone is grousing about -- it helps if you're familiar with WHY Mcihael Sheen's character is named both "Castor" and "Zuse." (People think he's named "Zeus," but that's incorrect.) Those names are chosen for a very specific reason, they weren't picked just because they sound cool. I can see if one isn't aware of what those names mean then you are missing an entire level of meaning in that sequence. Once you know what's going on, it takes on a fuller flavor.

This is an entirely different argument. I mean, I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't enjoy Serenity or Citizen Kane, but some people just don't like them. That's valid, since art is subjective and not all art suits all people. But disliking something and trying to actively say it's a terrible movie are two different things. No one has to justify not enjoying a movie. it doesn't float your boat, that's cool. Doesn't mean there are plot holes in the flick.

I think I speak for everyone who saw the film when I say this in response to that:

...

0.o