Trapdoor is getting harder.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-11 24:11 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Thank you for being first to figure out the intent of this thread in only one post; it took others several.
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Originally Posted by DaemonicVisions
I thank you OP for my amusement, and I thank you into knowing this whole thread was the intended idea to see others place down their frustrations about the situation, and expect "flamewars" to pursue. THANK YOU!! |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I'm a Madman, what can I type/say?
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Thank you for being first to figure out the intent of this thread in only one post; it took others several.
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I decided to try a "stupid" strategy against Trapdoor yesterday. I took my Fire/Fire/Flame Blaster to the encounter, took on two reds, two purples, Hasten, Aim and Build up and just rushed the guy. I managed to put him down on his knees shortly after he summoned his second bifurcation. I'm not sure if this is unique to Fire/Fire having severe shock damage and very fast attacks (I doubt I'd be able to do that with AR or DP), but he was doable like this. I didn't have a chance to try his bifurcations to see how hard they'd be to kill for that Blaster.
On that note, that same Blaster managed to down Hero 1 without dying, largely because Ring of Fire seems to -fly him for about five seconds at a time.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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What primary/secondary/APP-PPP?
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I can't beat Trapdoor now (at -1!) and they're making it *harder*? Inspirations helped a lot: they allowed me to remove 1/8 of his HP between chasing down his far too frequent and apparently unending "bifurcations" before the inspirations ran out and I died. I'd like to bifurcate the Midas-eared person who designed that encounter and then the bastitch who decided it couldn't be auto-completed - I have a sharp axe and a dull sword available for the task and right now the latter sounds altogether most suitable.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Immobilizing Honoree and staying at range has neutralized the vast majority of his major attacks, plus his heal in my experience. I would generally recommend that anyone playing a squishy try to keep him immobilized. But it sounds like you were simply kiting him.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
On that note, that same Blaster managed to down Hero 1 without dying, largely because Ring of Fire seems to -fly him for about five seconds at a time.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
That guy was a fun fight I threw 3 holds at him on my ice blaster and locked him down for the whole thing and just beat the crap out of him on my tank.
Not sure if the devs realize not all players can go toe to toe with EBs, and for various reasons not all players can team. Not being able to drag TD out of LoS just threw a monkey wrench in the tactics of an entire slew of squishes. I don't even want to begin to think what type of tactics to use now on my traps defender. Oh well, at least I was able to get some of my squishes through the arc.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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Sam,|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So, "get a Shivan?" I thought we done with this.
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I just want to point out there are a lot more than just the Shivans. I wasn't sure if you were using this as a blanket thing or you just meant only Shivans.
I discovered the Backup Radio is pretty helpful just this past weekend.
And for my villains I've always gone overboard with the Loa Bone and Summoning Amulet as well as the Grandville mad scientist's pets when I get those.
There's also the Warwolf whistle and the Katie Hannon pet to summon hero side and the Vanguard thing.
And my personal favorite is the vet buff pet. Not because the buffs help but because the enemies seem to target them first. I figure anything the enemy is attacking that isn't me is a good thing.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I'm not sure where you got that 1% number but even if true anyone who isn't looking to get the information really doesn't count because they aren't telling us whether they have a problem or not.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Fewer than 1% of the playebase reads the forums. And all of us here have completed the mission.
So your "handy tip" is -- what is the English word I'm looking for? -- oh yeah, USELESS. |
I mean that's like if you and I were at lunch and I asked you some advice and I told you it was worthless because no one else who needed it was with us at lunch to get it. It's not like the forums are a secret.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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And having a hallway was purely accidental.|
Originally Posted by Mirai
I tend to assume that the devs deliberately put him in the lava room to give us the optional tactic of drawing him into the lava.
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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I've been using a combination of Seeker Drones and my Blue Targeting Drone pet to take alphas on my Traps/DP 'Fender.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Sam,
I just want to point out there are a lot more than just the Shivans. I wasn't sure if you were using this as a blanket thing or you just meant only Shivans. I discovered the Backup Radio is pretty helpful just this past weekend. And for my villains I've always gone overboard with the Loa Bone and Summoning Amulet as well as the Grandville mad scientist's pets when I get those. There's also the Warwolf whistle and the Katie Hannon pet to summon hero side and the Vanguard thing. And my personal favorite is the vet buff pet. Not because the buffs help but because the enemies seem to target them first. I figure anything the enemy is attacking that isn't me is a good thing. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I've seen many PUGs that make this statement false. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I understand, but pulling Trapdoor out of the room also makes the fight far too much of an AI circumvent. Think about it. If Trapdoor were a real person, he would not run from the source of his healing.
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"Heal me!"
"You're on the other side of the map."
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I understand, but pulling Trapdoor out of the room also makes the fight far too much of an AI circumvent. Think about it. If Trapdoor were a real person, he would not run from the source of his healing.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I've seen many PUGs that make this statement false.
"Heal me!" "You're on the other side of the map." |
Perhaps we could think of it as inspiring Trapdoor to engage in "just scouting out the map" or some other fatal behavior.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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...until they make him immune to Fire damage. |
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Both the plasmatic taser, and the hand grenade have KB, and both are temp powers, and they havent fixed the lava nuking his regen yet.. so.. knock him in the lava, via temp powers, and keep him there either hover blasting over his head, or immobilizing him.
really, its that simple. 1) Get trapdoor in lava 2) Keep him there 3) ??? 4) PROFIT! |
That will be next.
I say lets go whole hog: let's disable shivans and nukes. Disable all Holds, KB and Immobs. He should be completely immune to Smashing and Lethal damage, and he should also spawn those Blue-Light-Specials-O'-Death like Battle Maiden does.
You want challenge, I say give it to you. Meanwhile I think all of my people who are going to be Incarnate have already done this arc, and for that I give a big "Thank you, God."
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Probably Suck Domination/Sucky Blast/Suck Mastery.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
What primary/secondary/APP-PPP?
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Because not being leet and uber instantly makes you a whiny noob, cos you can't complete the hard mission as easily as some people.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Probably Suck Domination/Sucky Blast/Suck Mastery.
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Oh, wait...No, it doesn't.
Sorry, just felt that one was really uncalled for.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yeah, this thread is apparently one of those dark alleyways you accidentally meander into among the generally betterthanthis community forums we have here.
I'm sorry I bothered to post in here, let alone ask for actual intelligent, helpful advice, hehe.
Tech... we can turn around and leave or nuke 'em...
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Put me in the Ironblade & Uberguy camp.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: I think this arc is poorly designed. As an introduction to the Incarnate system, I think it's terrible. It's difficult to believe that this content was unveiled in the same issue as those two new 20-29 arcs. Night and day, there. This feels like a throw-back to issue 7 or 8.
I think this arc needs a complete overhaul. A heavy-handed (and kinda dumb) band-aid ain't gonna do the trick.
Pulling is a valid tactic in the game. Seems to me it would've been better to work with that (make his bifurcations go with him if he's pulled) than work against it. But I guess that would've required too much effort.
This change doesn't make the encounter more difficult, it only makes it potentially more aggravating, and makes me (and likely others) more inclined to simply mow over it in the typical fashion that allegedly isn't supposed to work in this arc (and yet works just fine, in my experience).
The arc is presented as a personal journey, it should've been designed as such. If people are saying "get a team", that is, to me, an indication of design failure. I understand it was probably a rush job, but c'mon. It's supposed to be the doorway to all this new shiny. It's shouldn't feel like the same ol' same old.
This game already has a problem with limited options for dealing with an encounter. So, narrowing the options by which this particular encounter can be dealt with might not have been the smartest move. I'm just sayin'.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
I'm sorry to be ten pages late, but has someone made a dirty joke about the subject line yet? If they have, I'll go with the Airplane reference as a backup.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Shivans. *shrug* Not like anyone's in the PVP zones these days.
I am somewhat disappointed that we're losing a valid strategy to defeat him, given prior complaints about "just bigger bags of hit points." I mean, noticing what's going on and doing something to counter it (besides "punch punch punch down purples punch punch" that is.) I've handled him different ways with different ATs. My controllers and doms took advantage of the fact he CAN be held to keep him from spawning anything. Melee? Beat on him. Sometimes in lava, sometimes not. MMs? Swarm, sometimes with T1s chasing the clones. Khelds? One kited, two beat on him in the lava. My defenders kited. Of the group of characters I have in the 40s, I think the only one I'm going to have to find a different strategy for will be the Sonic/Sonic, since I tend to want to solo this arc. Now, if they introduced some other way you could handle him (not including temp powers, etc) I would be fine with losing this angle. But that's more an encounter redesign than a mob redesign. |
I agree with you Bill. I am currently working on my 5th Incarnate at the moment and all but two of them has done the arc solo. This includes my Crab Spider, Thugs MM, Ill/Emp Troller, Plant/Rad Troller and my latest .. my SD/SS tank. The only ones that didn't complete the Trapdoor mission solo were the Ill/Emp [did it with several SG team mates] and the Thugs MM [did it with one SG team mate from my Villain Group].
Why is it that people are so quick to judge anything that actually uses a bit of thought and strategy as "cheating" or "taking the easy way out"? Pulling Trapdoor into the caves where his clones can't heal him is a perfectly sound strategy and can someone explain how it's any different than using knockback to shove him into the lava and keep him there? One strategy is utilizing the ability to KB an opponent the other is using the ability to Taunt.
So we, and by we I mean the OP and those that agree, are just giddy as can be that no one can taunt Trapdoor anymore. When you do the Protean arc do you stand fast and let him heal off you every time and trust in your overwhelming might to eventually beat him down.. Or do you run out of range so he stays damaged and then come back to pound on hims some more? If your answer is the second option.. just how is that any different than my Tank taunting Trapdoor into the caves and beating him senseless?
{SARCASM ALERT} thumbs through COH/V guidebook and tries to find section where every single encounter HAS to be an epic adventure or I get my money back. Hmmm I don't see that anywhere! LOL
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Yeah, this thread is apparently one of those dark alleyways you accidentally meander into among the generally betterthanthis community forums we have here.
I'm sorry I bothered to post in here, let alone ask for actual intelligent, helpful advice, hehe. Tech... we can turn around and leave or nuke 'em... |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
Not sure if the devs realize not all players can go toe to toe with EBs, and for various reasons not all players can team. Not being able to drag TD out of LoS just threw a monkey wrench in the tactics of an entire slew of squishes. I don't even want to begin to think what type of tactics to use now on my traps defender. Oh well, at least I was able to get some of my squishes through the arc.
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Traps defender has poison trap right? Poison trap has -1000% regen.. so..umm.. toe bomb poison trap, and hover blast him?
Or, kite him into the laval and web nade him there?
Or using a combination of seeker drones, FFG and acid mortar just debuff him down to spit, and brawl him to death?
I mean really a */traps defender should be able to just breath heavily on trapdoor and kill him.
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That was me you were quoting... The one who has repeatedly cast harsh words at min/maxers and on more than one occasion linked to one of his prized Frankenslotted builds? Yeah, you were just responding to what I said and completely overlooked the fact that it was me saying it.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Because not being leet and uber instantly makes you a whiny noob, cos you can't complete the hard mission as easily as some people.
Oh, wait...No, it doesn't. |
Sure, I've soloed the Mender Ramiel arc (with Inspirations) on the four characters I've attempted it with, but my Defender is not among them, and I'm not entirely certain I can solo the whole thing with an Emp/Elec...
Or, if humor is allowed, a Suck/Suck.
I don't ever slot for Invention Sets (intentionally, at any rate), and I'm about as displaced as it gets from the min/maxing crowd. I've been especially vocal in the past about how brain-deaded the general populace has been when religiously taking Stamina, and I'm not exactly enthused that it is now forced on every character at level 2.
But hey, let's not let context get in the way of a good flame. Clearly, clearly, my post shows that my sentiment towards those pitiful, non-uberleet players is that they're just whiny noobs.
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This. Not hard guys.
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
I haven't had to take out the clones or drag him in the lava for any of the characters I completed it with, even squishies. For those who think it's hard, you can either find a team or use inspirations.
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I welcome this change. Tons of other posters have taken to whining and weeping about how hard it is for them to kill him even when they've been given instructions.
I say, THANK YOU DEVS! I want harder things to do, more complex tasks! Smashing apart +1/x8 is fun for so long; make us think about what we have to do to get stronger.
That said, let the whining, flaming, and ragequitting begin!
Now only if the devs can make him stay put so we can't throw him in lava, kite him, fly around him, use Shivans, Nukes, or insps, we'd have the perfect scenario!
You thank the devs for a "fix" to frustrate you more, but in turn, allow a dim-witted "fix" to a scenario where it's the devs own fault for placing a map and situation that allows you to pull Trapdoor into an area where his minions cannot heal him..
GENIUS!
The better idea would be to have Trapdoors minions follow him so they could continue to regen him, the better Idea would be to place a map area where you couldn't pull his minions to regen him, but yet, you thank the devs for making Trapdoor harder cause you can no longer use a tactics that is being used by anyone that most likely asked for help in the 1st place on taking that mutha down...
My fellow species continue to boggle me, cause it seems so often, people thank one another for things they put little to no effort into, when the thanks wasn't deserved at all.
I thank you OP for my amusement, and I thank you into knowing this whole thread was the intended idea to see others place down their frustrations about the situation, and expect "flamewars" to pursue.
THANK YOU!!