Trapdoor is getting harder.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-11 24:11 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Mmm....
Someone correct me if I am wrong...
But I believe the alpha slot can be unlocked by trading 75 merits at the merit vendor. Thus you can by-pass the entire sequence if so inclined.
Incidentally, the hero-1 portion of the unlock thread is auto-completetable, you just need to go to Lady Grey to start the mission, then go to the Mender to auto-complete, return to Lady Grey for the blah blah part, and then you are on your way to the next mission. The ability to auto-complete this portion is a God-send for most of my support types.
Stormy
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Nope. That was in the closed I18 beta but it has not been part of I19.
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Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Mmm....
Someone correct me if I am wrong... But I believe the alpha slot can be unlocked by trading 75 merits at the merit vendor. Thus you can by-pass the entire sequence if so inclined. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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To be honest I find the whole Alpha Slot unlock issue hilarious, the poor devs can't win. First they made it unlockable for either merits or completion of a TF, people complained it didn't feel "epic" enough. Then they replaced the old unlock with a pretty decent story arc, and people complain it's to hard.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Nope. That was in the closed I18 beta but it has not been part of I19.
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Maybe they shouldn't be called 'bifurcations' since he doesn't stop after creating just one (that is to say, bifurcating himself so that there are two of him). Maybe they should change the name to 'Infinifurcations' since he just keeps on furcating.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
*long boring chase the bifurbs why whittling away at him fights
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Well, gosh, maybe if they had included the pretty decent story arc as an alternative to the old unlocks instead of using it to replace them more people would be happy and content with the new content, eh? |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
To be honest I find the whole Alpha Slot unlock issue hilarious, the poor devs can't win. First they made it unlockable for either merits or completion of a TF, people complained it didn't feel "epic" enough. Then they replaced the old unlock with a pretty decent story arc, and people complain it's to hard.
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Some people would have been happy but given the general tone of the complaints in this thread I think we'd have still gotten complaints that the solo option was to hard. In general I would think that people who don't want to team to do Trapdoor aren't going to want to do a TF to unlock the slot either.
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Originally Posted by Flarstux
Well, gosh, maybe if they had included the pretty decent story arc as an alternative to the old unlocks instead of using it to replace them more people would be happy and content with the new content, eh?
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Wrong! People who like to solo run TFs all the time. I sure do. One must team for a TF, that's how the rewards are gated.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Some people would have been happy but given the general tone of the complaints in this thread I think we'd have still gotten complaints that the solo option was to hard. In general I would think that people who don't want to team to do Trapdoor aren't going to want to do a TF to unlock the slot either.
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However we have many, many many mission arcs which are fine for soloers. The expectation is that a single mission is going to be completable by a solo player. Every now and then one runs across one which IS NOT completable by a solo player, and then it usually gets dropped if that is an option.
If Trapdoor were droppable all of this angst would stop. And he should be.... because there is no real choice to be made, the mission completes and the arc progresses no matter which dialog-tree one chooses.
If this is a "must team" sort of arc, then it should be a task force. Again, problem solved.
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And then people would start complaining that they had to wait 3 days to be able to drop the Holtz/Honoree fight.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
If Trapdoor were droppable all of this angst would stop. And he should be.... because there is no real choice to be made, the mission completes and the arc progresses no matter which dialog-tree one chooses.
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I'm looking forward to facing Trapdoor on my Blaster. I casually slapped him down on my Brute before I ever knew this thread existed or before I even knew how to fight him; all I'd heard about was Holtz/Honoree. I worked out how to kill Trapdoor during the mission, and I'm not the best player around by far. I grant that I was on a Brute and probably well-suited to the fight, so I'll be watching on my Blaster to see how much more difficult he is.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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But Trapdoor IS completable by a solo player. I was able to complete it using a primary-less Defender without temp powers. If I can do that I fail to see how it's not completable solo, especially if the player is willing to get some temporary powers.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Wrong! People who like to solo run TFs all the time. I sure do. One must team for a TF, that's how the rewards are gated.
However we have many, many many mission arcs which are fine for soloers. The expectation is that a single mission is going to be completable by a solo player. Every now and then one runs across one which IS NOT completable by a solo player, and then it usually gets dropped if that is an option. |
One technical quibble I have is that I'm not sure I was seeing the bifurcate pop-up text when I (or Trapdoor) was not on the platform. I could be wrong, but I swear there were more bifurcations than alerts.
Lava was absolutely key on my Mind/Kin. Without it I'm not sure I would have pulled it off, at least not on the first attempt (confuse doesn't seem to negate the bifurcations or stop them from spawning). Of course, when I went to talk to him I fell in as well, and in speeding through dialogue and trying to jump out of the lava accidentally finished him off. Sorry, Trapdoor.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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Hm. I think what happens is that if you aren't near him when he bifurcates, you don't get the message. I think that would be /bug worthy if you're near him but don't get it just because he's in the "wrong" place.|
Originally Posted by gec72
One technical quibble I have is that I'm not sure I was seeing the bifurcate pop-up text when I (or Trapdoor) was not on the platform. I could be wrong, but I swear there were more bifurcations than alerts.
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Heck, it might be /bug worthy that there's no message even if it's based on being near him. It sort of depends on what they are thinking about why we get the message. I think of the message as sort of beyond the fourth wall, because it conveys information I don't think our characters could readily perceive. That makes me think it's meant to tell the player to do something we wouldn't otherwise know when/what to do, which then makes me think we should really see it wherever our character (or Trapdoor) is at.
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| Of course, when I went to talk to him I fell in as well, and in speeding through dialogue and trying to jump out of the lava accidentally finished him off. Sorry, Trapdoor. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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my fire blaster ate some reds and put him down with a direct frontal assault.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
I worked out how to kill Trapdoor during the mission, and I'm not the best player around by far. I grant that I was on a Brute and probably well-suited to the fight, so I'll be watching on my Blaster to see how much more difficult he is.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Is there any other way? Yeah, I'm not too worried.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
my fire blaster ate some reds and put him down with a direct frontal assault.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Except, for me, the temp powers are mostly not a viable option. I refuse to even enter PVP zones. Not even for Shivans and Nukes. I can't properly express how much I dislike PVP, but the fact that it's even a *possibility* is enough to keep me out of those zones.
That leaves the Vanguard Heavy. But if I buy the heavy, I won't have any Vanguard merits left to buy a Gray Matter. (I don't particularly like the RWZ, so I don't usually do missions there. And I've been on perhaps three ship raids in the two years I've been playing - I don't enjoy them.) I've never been on a Lady Grey Task Force, and didn't even know there was such a thing until a few weeks ago. For some players, 250 Vanguard Merits is trivial. For me, it's about a year's accumulation from just doing missions.
That leaves the Backup Radio. My experience with that pet is that it's really not worth the effort. I've tried it repeatedly on my Necro/Dark Mastermind, and the idiot Crab Spider tends to manage to die before even a zombie every single time. Apparently officers are selected for that duty based on their incompetence and lack of intelligence.
For what little it's worth, I wouldn't like it if the Alpha Slot was a Task Force reward only. The only Task Force that I've done more than once is the Imperious, and only because it has a unique costume set as a completion reward. (Meaning, I've done it once per character on more than one character.)
Realistically though, it's a near certainty that I'm going to be locked out of some or all of the remaining Incarnate abilities. I haven't seen anything to indicate that they don't plan to copy pretty much every other MMO, and make all the remaining Incarnate slots the rewards of "end game" raids. My objection to that is that the Incarnate abilities themselves are something that I could play around with in normal missions. (It's hard to argue that in a level 50 mission, an Incarnate character is simply better than one that doesn't have the Alpha slot.)
And it looks like Incarnates are what the devs are spending almost all of their effort on. (This issue had very little in it aside from the Incarnate content.) Until they make an official announcement about Issue 20, I have to assume that it's basically going to be several "Incarnate Trial" raids, with perhaps a token improvement or addition to some other part of the game. At the moment, I foresee that I'll probably spend the next several issues with nothing to look forward to.
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Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
Except, for me, the temp powers are mostly not a viable option. I refuse to even enter PVP zones. Not even for Shivans and Nukes. I can't properly express how much I dislike PVP, but the fact that it's even a *possibility* is enough to keep me out of those zones.
That leaves the Vanguard Heavy. But if I buy the heavy, I won't have any Vanguard merits left to buy a Gray Matter. (I don't particularly like the RWZ, so I don't usually do missions there. And I've been on perhaps three ship raids in the two years I've been playing - I don't enjoy them.) I've never been on a Lady Grey Task Force, and didn't even know there was such a thing until a few weeks ago. For some players, 250 Vanguard Merits is trivial. For me, it's about a year's accumulation from just doing missions. That leaves the Backup Radio. My experience with that pet is that it's really not worth the effort. I've tried it repeatedly on my Necro/Dark Mastermind, and the idiot Crab Spider tends to manage to die before even a zombie every single time. Apparently officers are selected for that duty based on their incompetence and lack of intelligence. For what little it's worth, I wouldn't like it if the Alpha Slot was a Task Force reward only. The only Task Force that I've done more than once is the Imperious, and only because it has a unique costume set as a completion reward. (Meaning, I've done it once per character on more than one character.) Realistically though, it's a near certainty that I'm going to be locked out of some or all of the remaining Incarnate abilities. I haven't seen anything to indicate that they don't plan to copy pretty much every other MMO, and make all the remaining Incarnate slots the rewards of "end game" raids. My objection to that is that the Incarnate abilities themselves are something that I could play around with in normal missions. (It's hard to argue that in a level 50 mission, an Incarnate character is simply better than one that doesn't have the Alpha slot.) And it looks like Incarnates are what the devs are spending almost all of their effort on. (This issue had very little in it aside from the Incarnate content.) Until they make an official announcement about Issue 20, I have to assume that it's basically going to be several "Incarnate Trial" raids, with perhaps a token improvement or addition to some other part of the game. At the moment, I foresee that I'll probably spend the next several issues with nothing to look forward to. |
By the same token, I don't see why they wouldn't continue on the path they started. Story arc(s) to unlock the slot, and slot "gated" trials/tf/raids what have you to flex your muscles once you fill the slot.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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Because it's simpler to combine the two. Instead of making a story arc and a TF for each slot, just make a TF that assumes everyone taking part has ALL the Incarnate slots up to that point. So, the next TF is balanced around having the alpha, and rewards Judgment. The one after that assumes Judgment, and rewards the next slot, and so on. In fact, the very next TF could be balanced around having Alpha + the next slot with a common boost in each, even though the next slot is the reward. After all, by the time it comes out the hardcore elite will have Uncommon Alpha boosts for at least one flavor, and probably have enough parts saved up to jump straight up to Rare or Very Rare.|
Originally Posted by Furio
By the same token, I don't see why they wouldn't continue on the path they started. Story arc(s) to unlock the slot, and slot "gated" trials/tf/raids what have you to flex your muscles once you fill the slot.
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In "that other" MMO, the minimum gear needed to do a dungeon is usually the gear that *drops* from that dungeon. The first people to finish it get bragging rights for doing it the hard way, and then get to pick and choose which of their "less worthy" friends gets the pity slot to come along and get twinked up so they can actually contribute.
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Insinuating that they aren't.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Insinuating that veteran players are total idiots. Awesome.
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Awesomer.
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Do you really think the devs would do that? Oh sure "the other mmo" balances things so that it's very hard to do content without gear from the content but I suspect the incarnate system will be considerably more lax in terms of difficulty. The new TFs pretty much require an alpha boost for completion but they aren't the only way to get an alpha boost and in fact given the low number of enemies they are actually a poor way to get shards compared to the ITF or LGTF. Will the new TFs become easier once the level shifting Alpha Boosts are unlocked? Definitely, but they are perfectly doable now and I fully expect that trend to continue with future content.
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Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
In fact, the very next TF could be balanced around having Alpha + the next slot with a common boost in each, even though the next slot is the reward.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Do you really think the devs would do that? Oh sure "the other mmo" balances things so that it's very hard to do content without gear from the content but I suspect the incarnate system will be considerably more lax in terms of difficulty. The new TFs pretty much require an alpha boost for completion but they aren't the only way to get an alpha boost and in fact given the low number of enemies they are actually a poor way to get shards compared to the ITF or LGTF. Will the new TFs become easier once the level shifting Alpha Boosts are unlocked? Definitely, but they are perfectly doable now and I fully expect that trend to continue with future content.
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Yeah. Beside the fact that the new TFs are one of the slower methods of actually filling the slot, (esp if you haven't filled it at least once before hand) I think my scenario fits more with the way *our* devs do things.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
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I could see them going either way. For example when the Judgment slot comes out it might be linked to a new soloable story arc but it could just as easily be linked to the Tin Mage/Apex TFs. In either case though I think that as you say there will be a distinct difference between "Judgment Required" content and "Judgment Unlocking" content.
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Originally Posted by Furio
Yeah. Beside the fact that the new TFs are one of the slower methods of actually filling the slot, (esp if you haven't filled it at least once before hand) I think my scenario fits more with the way *our* devs do things.
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Which looks almost nothing like what they have done here.|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
In "that other" MMO, the minimum gear needed to do a dungeon is usually the gear that *drops* from that dungeon. The first people to finish it get bragging rights for doing it the hard way, and then get to pick and choose which of their "less worthy" friends gets the pity slot to come along and get twinked up so they can actually contribute.
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Doing the Apex or Tin Mage TFs without your Alpha slot is lunacy. It's so, so much easier to run every other level 50 TF out there, plus normal level 50 content drops shards. I haven't even seen a Cathedral of Pain form in weeks, and yet I've had enough Shards to craft my uncommon salvage, craft the one from Cathedral of Pain, and have 10-50 shards left over on all my 50s from doing all the other level 50 content I've done. Where's the indication that they're going to start making us have the slots to run the content that unlocks it? So far, if you don't have the slot you're nuts for even trying the content, because the alternatives are that much easier.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Well I am done with Trapdoor for a long time. I decided I would take my remaining 50s through the arc and each fight was predictable based upon my character how it would go except he did seem to challenge my Fortunata more than I expected and my grav/rad rolled him a lot faster than I thought he would.
So for me he remains too easy for some builds and tedious* for the others.
*long boring chase the bifurbs why whittling away at him fights
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.