How long will the exploits go on?

So, you want people banned because they fail to delete missions after an exploit is fixed? Do you seriously think that this level of sheer draconian... craziness is going to magically populate AE with missions you find interesting to run....?

I think we need a reality check here, TADA!... : AE is full of bad missions MAINLY because most players could not craft anything resembling a well-put-together arc, if it meant the firing squad. AE is 99% crap mainly because most people cannot write, or think up a remotely good idea.

Good luck thinking the ban-hammer is gonna change that! Because that is what your argument boils down to... I am really so tired of people wailing about the horrors of AE, that I would be fine with the developers yanking the entire system out of the game.

This thread: rich in amusement.

I never said anything of the kind. I said I want people banned AND their hands cut off. Get it right next time.

*edited because there is no point in making a serious reply to someone who can't even bother to actually read the part she quoted.

Sturgeon's Law, combined with The Theorem of Narrow Interests.

Of course it's in majority crap. Anyone who ever expected anything else was being completely unrealistic. It's just that the GOOD stuff is REALLY good.

Alright. Let's try this another way. With ED, the devs essentially said that six-slotting (for damage, recharge, whatever) was an 'exploit'. They never meant the system to work that way; they never meant you to six-slot for damage.

But the devs didn't - and hopefully never seriously considered - taking away the Influence, Levels, etc from those who had earned them with 'exploitive' characters. They were clearly considered exploitive - the rules changed to prevent them from ever happening again, at least to the same degree. They broke the system, much like MA Farms do - using exactly the code the Devs put in, in ways the Devs never expected or intended.

But the devs just changed the code, and carried on (admit much gnashing of teeth, and wailing and such). No punishments.

(Also similar to this, the devs said it wasn't WAI long before they fixed it. Did people "stop doing it" ahead of time? I wasn't here, but somehow, I doubt it...)

So - for the "punish them!" crowd - should they have taken away these ill gotten gains? Or was that (as I expect you'll argue) "different" somehow?

You're two for two now, nice job.

This, at least, is true.

Oh and to contribute to the thread:

Introduction hinting at subscription time and gaming experience. Rhetorical question setting up a false dichotomy. Ad hominems directed toward one side of false dichotomy. Pointing out that people who disagree are taking things too seriously. Bad analogy poorly representing facts or reality. Thinly veiled doom about game's financial future. Long cascade of misunderstood quotes, irrelevant replies, and snarky smilies.

Short paragraph of sweeping generalizations and an irrelevant conclusion.

This ^

And to the OP who cares? Ppl will do what they want exploits or not because they pay a fee.

No they didn't. Finding ways to break the game rules and have underling class mobs give boss level experience is taking advantage of a bug, hence an exploit. Revisiting game balance in general is not.

Why don't you finds events where the devs explicitly said it was an exploit and compare it to that instead of making up your own examples?

And then there was the time somebody (and no one ever fessed up, either) was handing out TWO, count 'em, TWO free reindeer toys with the Blissful Meal Special Deal Santa's Workshop-themed boxes. You should have seen the manager wrestling with those twins who really wanted to keep their extra free reindeer toys (one got a super rare Rudolph!). He did eventually manage (which is why, I suppose, he's the manager) to get one of the extra toys back (the super rare Rudolph!), but only because the heftiest of the twins shoved it in his (the manager's) mouth and he (the manager) swallowed it. Rumor has it that he (the manager, being something of a tightwad) eventually put the super rare Rudolph toy back into circulation, as it were. I bet the kid who finally got it was thrilled!

Well, because the number of "dev-approved" exploits are quite limited.

Alright. Let's try this. The Hamidon Exploit. The devs have said it's an exploit. They intend to fix the exploit. They've asked not to use the exploit. In this matter, at least, it's similar to the MA exploits.

(Nobody much uses it anymore, though, making it kind of a bad example. And it's kept going for, like, literally years. But still.)

If the devs fix it tomorrow, should they also delete any characters with mis-slotted Hami-Os? Should they backtrack all the Inf those characters have earned, and take it away? Merits, too?

Or just prevent it from happening in the future?

Also -

I think this is a key portion of where our difference in opinion lies. I'm not sure you can "break" the game rules of a computer game by using game-functions. A comparison might be missile-jumping in Quake; it's something the designers didn't intend, and didn't expect. It's "cheating" only in a very subjective sense. The game code is doing exactly what it's supposed to; it hasn't been hacked, changed, or altered.

If you use the "guns and ammo" codes in Doom, or Quake, or whatever, is that cheating? If you use the Konami Code in Contra, is that cheating? Or playing an alternate game mode?

Similar idea. Boss-Level-Henchmen is in the game code, even if it's not supposed to be. I'm not sure that asking, or insisting, that people play the way you personally want instead of the way the game allows is... prudent. Even if the 'you' involved is a dev.

Also - Note that I'm not saying it's not an exploit. It clearly is. But I'm strongly opposed to "punishment for infractions".

I'd say it varies from case to case. How much effect did it have? How hard is it to roll back what's been done? How egregious was its use? One size doesn't fit all just as one punishment doesn't fit every offense in real life. Thinking that one major case of exploiting should result in lost levels or whatever doesn't mean that I'm required to demand that everyone who ever blasted a stuck Hellion from range needs to be permabanned.

That's pretty much the definition of a game exploit so I'm not sure how you'd hold this opinion and then later agree that it's an exploit.

true

If I can purchase ladders for 4 gold, break off the steps, and sell back the two 10' poles for 3 gold each, and there's nothing in the game to stop me from doing so, am I cheating? No, the game allows it, and if it's allowed, it's not cheating. Am I exploiting? Yes - the game shouldn't allow it, but does.

The difference there is pretty clear, to me.

Exploits are using game rules to accomplish game functions that are not intended. Using Hami-O's to boost stats the designers never intended them to boost is therefore an exploit; you don't have to use Leet Haxx to get the game-code to do it; just drop the Hami in. In fact, if I'd never read the Wiki, I wouldn't ever have realized doing so was considered an exploit. (Admittedly, or probably ever realized doing so was possible)

Cheating is altering game-code, game-logic, or game-rules to accomplish game effects that are not intended. I see it as... very hard, to cheat in computer games. The old Game Genie for the Nintendo was one. If someone made a "diablo de-randomizer" that'd be a cheat. Or most mods for games, that alter the game-files to make the game easier, constitute cheats.

One uses existing functions in the game to break the game.
One alters the rules of the game to break the game.

Similar in some ways; massively different in others.

That's how you can exploit, but not cheat.

(Note that I may well be guilty of not using the dictionary-definitions here, but they seem markedly different concepts to me; if 'exploit' and 'cheat' are synonyms, there clearly needs to be a word for the other concept I've put forth.)

The market certainly is buggered currently. Many uncommon salvage bits are coming close to outpricing rare bits.

One thing I've wondered about those monkey farms, do they not award tickets? Or does this new round of AE babies not even know how to use the ticket reward interface and simply buy or random roll some of the other salvage bits?

I've begun to presume these new farms also are short on influence/infamy due to the number of level 40+ beggars I've recently encountered at the marketplace using both local and broadcast asking for donations. Meanwhile, I'm on my level 15-25 xp off to do every arc characters, each with well over 40 million to their name. And that's WITHOUT aggressive daily marketeering, much of it just from recipe rolls and lucky drops in the regular content.

BTW, Cap redside on Virtue has been pretty bad the past week and a half, similar to accounts above of Atlas on Freedom.

*shrug* C'est la vie. I have pumpkin pie in front of me currently, so I'm not going to let it bring me down.

The turkey, stuffing and sweet potatoes are warming now.

Dude, YOU SAID:

....to wit: you want people banned because they will not delete old arcs which get in your way of searching for those nonexistant, excellent arcs which provide taut storylines and entertainment which can be enjoyed again and again, within the MA system. The inference here being - and its at a remove, I'll admit that - is that if you can get enough people banned, the MA system will suddenly be rife with good writing because the only arcs left will be what you consider "good" storytelling.

*laughs out loud* GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE!

I couldn't hear you over all your whining about whiners. Whine moar!

I don't know about you, but I've found plenty of interesting and enjoyable stories in MA.

Oh, they give tickets. I've heard a lot of people using it to solo farm, not xp but tickets. A front-loaded ambush will max out your tickets in about 5 minutes, then you reset and leave.

The problem is that pretty much no one uses their ticket rolls for salvage of all things. Not to sell anyway. They use it for recipes, and may use tickets for the salvage to make THOSE recipes, but not one's wasting tickets on gobs of salvage.

So have I, but I've also found some DEV approved front page arcs that are shinned up turds, that leave me wondering how they EVER got that award.

People have differing tastes.

As to the exploit, it'll be patched when Issue 19 patches.

People can simple avoid the spam by not visiting atlas. Why ANYONE ever would want to visit atlas boggles my mind, seeing as how you can go to galaxy or start as a Preatorian.

Everyone just calm down and have fun until Issue 19 comes out.

People take this game waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

This much is true.

I can count the number of times I've rolled for salvage and that's only to CRAFT recipes.