Discussion: Issue 19 Launch Update

So ... it made sense that they said they would aim for the 16th or the first week after thanksgiving if the 16th wasn't possible.

Now they're doing exactly that but suddenly they're 'stringing people along with less and less'.

You make less and less sense with every post.

No, it's not. It's plain rediculous. The devs are still working within the time frame they have given. No promises were broken, if there were made any at all. You made a purchase based on an assumption and now are pissed because reality doesn't hold to your assumptions.

CoV was a game, not an expansion.

If you're going to complain at least get your facts straight.

Maybe she can co-star in Wall Street 3 alongside Shia LaBeouf?

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Except for your initial posts in the thread, where you said that Kheldians could deal with it and play other characters until the fix came through in a couple weeks, right?

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Yes I said that many bugs are prevelant in this game already and that they should just tough it out for a few weeks. BUT if the doomsday bug will in effect delete their Kheldian with no way of retrieval then yes they should delay the issue for that reason alone. I don't mind if a small amount of people (I play doms so myself included) miss out on the first batch of chocolate chip cookies and have to eat oatmeal raisin cookies instead but if they have to kill people off to get the number of people equal to the amount of chocolate chip cookies then that's no good.

We do not know why they're delaying other than what is assumed about the dom/kheldian bugs. I still think they should push it through unless they came out with the specific case that the above COULD happen.

I'd much rather be playing with the new stuff I thought I was buying a long time ago right now rather than forum PvPing with a bunch of people who see the leaders of this game as doing no wrong.

Because games eventually become free to those who have the similar version and did not want to purchase the "bad" version all the time.....

CoV is not a game unto itself or else how is side-switching possible with CoH and why have the games shared the same server space, wouldn't a stand alone game merit a completely seperate space so things dont get too crowded?

Definition of EXPAND

transitive verb
: to increase the extent, number, volume, or scope of : enlarge

Seems like CoV did just that

Fixed my typo.

Yet, as you *didn't* need City of Heroes it was also stand alone, and therefore a game in its own right.

Expansions (well at least in terms of computer games) generally means that you need the core game before you can even think about adding to it... in this case City of Villians blows that idea out of the water, as you didnt need City of Heroes to play City of Villians...

(Although owning BOTH games, meant that you could indeed create characters of BOTH sides under the same account.... and now you have the side switching etc etc etc that GR bought in.)

Infact, I know some people who bought City of Villains at launch, and never bought City of Heroes (so for them, City of Heroes was the "bad" release).

Granted, when NCsoft bought the rights to the City of Heroes franchise, it *did* make sense for them to merge the 2 games together, and give EVERYONE who owned either one of the games the other "bad game"

I think the 800lb gorillia game exemplify the definition of "expansions" quite nicely... in that you *NEED* the core game to use any of the expansions... whereas at least with CoX you can at least buy GR complete et voila, you have access to *EVERYTHING*.

The 800lb gorillia requires you to buy the original and 2 expansions to at least get up to date....

As you are still going on about this I must assume that you either...

1) Missed my post on the previous page.

2) Have not read any other posts in the forums

or...

3) Arguing for the sake of arguing.

In the latest patch to the Beta server they have apparently (note the use of the word "apparently") fixed the Kheldian and Dom bugs. And guess what; it wasn't a bug with either Kheldian's or Dom's; it was an interface problem that was occurring due to how Inherent Fitness was interacting with those two arch types.

How they apparently fixed this was to rewrite the entire code of how Inherent Fitness was granted to us, remove the old Inherent Fitness then plug the new Inherent Fitness in.

The result? Had they published I19 on the 16th (like they were trying, but never guaranteed, to do) and applied the fix to the problem then every single character that respeced between the launch and the fix would have lost all enhancements and slots in the old Inherent Fitness and would have to have respeced again to regain their lost slots. However, all the enhancements (like those expensive Numina's and Performance Shifters) that were in the old Inherent Fitness would still be lost.

Now imagine how the player base would react to that.

Why did it take so long for them to change how Inherent Fitness worked? We don't know. Perhaps the way it was coded before actually worked better for what they have planned for future content, but were unable to pin down a fix for what was happening to Kheldian's and Dom's. Again, we don't know.

As to why they don't take what was just changed and publish to live right now? They just made a major change to how the characters work, so they need to test it to make sure this change doesn't effect something else. So the earliest they could even think about publishing it would be next Tuesday (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday to let people test the changes and see if any problems pops up because of said change and Monday to address/fix said problems); however nobody with the slightest bit of business sense would launch any new products or changes to something just before a time when there will be no one to support it or take care of any problems when there would be no one around to address it if something major happened...like just before a major holiday.

So again, I'm glad that the Dev's decided to wait and make sure that everything is working properly to the best of their ability and thank them for all the effort they've put into this.

Thank you for pointing this out! Although I'm sure there are some that will still not get the point.

CoV was installable and playable as a stand-alone game.
I and many other players did exactly that.


GR is an expansion. It is not installable and playable as a stand alone game.

Your mental gymnastics do not change reality.

Wait... I sort of follow this, but is there any risk to the ones I have being slotted now getting lost? I only ask because you said "lost" and now I worry that I might have missed something.

On test yes... On live no. Because they DIDN'T release on the 16th.

Exactly. Apparently the entire problem was something with how Inherent Fitness was coded. In order to fix the problem what they essentially did was completely remove Inherent Fitness then put a new version of it back in. Had there been any character on Test or Beta that never respected into Inherent Fitness before the changes were made they would have been fine. However, this also meant that anyone with Inherent Fitness lost everything that was in it (slots and enhancements).

I've tested this myself both previously with the old Inherent Fitness and the new change. There is a code that checks if you have what is being referred to as Legacy Fitness (the power pool choices that everyone can select right now on Live) and if you do, noting is affected. If you don't have it (either a new character or one that is respecing) it will remove the ability to select Legacy Fitness and grant you Inherent Fitness at the correct level (as you are in the middle of a respec, all slots have already been removed and all enhancements moved into the enhancement pool so this will have no effect on anything).

The problem comes from those who had been on Beta or Test previously. If they either either respeced their toon from live or leveled up a new toon (Beta was giving a level bump) they would have had the old Inherent Fitness. The change done completely removed how Inherent Fitness was granted to toons and inserted a new Inherent Fitness; so toons with the old Inherent Fitness would have lost everything in it. Had I19 gone live with the old Inherent Fitness and their only solution was to use the new Inherent Fitness, then there would have been major problems.

This problem shouldn't happen when the issue is published, as there is still the existing code to check if you have the Legacy Fitness which will protect the slots and enhancements in it and, since the old Inherent Fitness never went Live, after respecing your toon everything will be fine.

Now, hopefully, there is no new problems that come up because of what was done. But hey, we have plenty of time to test for any new bugs.

Well, to get down to the brass tacks of the matter, I'm saying (not just to you, or Championess, or anyone specific, but to EVERYone) "Quit showing me just one vague graph as proof of your position. It's not."

I'm not going to except JUST new sales numbers, or new subscription numbers, or numbers of microtransactions, or any OTHER numbers BY THEMSELVES, as evidence that any MMO is doing well OR badly. By themselves, they can only represent one facet of a game's success.

I don't know about others but i didn't mention anything about success in this instance...just saying what is. If you prefer not seeing it, the option of not looking is always available.

For Live characters, no. That's the entire point behind not adding Inherent Fitness to any character that currently has the pool version - the game will not automatically remove the pool version until you deliberately respec. The slots getting deleted on Test happened because they basically deleted the original Inherent Fitness powers, and added a new set that is coded in a different way.

Releasing something which is utterly broken does NOT make sense. It knowingly creates a rubbish storm which NC would have to dig itself out from under. Can you imagine the howls from people who have their characters stuffed if this went live? You know ... the PAYING customers?

You don't make customers happy by messing up their products. If I buy something and it's broken I return it, if I buy something and find out the seller KNEW it was broken when they sold it to me they get a very very angry customer that will tear strips off them.

Normally I'd agree with the stringing them along but this time there IS communication a definite "This issue will be released after Thanksgiving". NCSoft didn't give a release date. That was from players at the meet and greet.

If you take rumours as fact, that's not their fault, it's your naivete.

Then you don't know what dom's do. A dom without dom is not the AT as planned by the Devs. Those of us who spent a lot of effort getting perma-dom would basically have wasted our time, our character would be nowhere near as effective and in some cases utterly useless.

I can understand you being grumpy because you spent a whole $7.50 (presuming i19 is released in two weeks) for (what you consider) no reason. However, that doesn't mean NC should screw over every Kheld/Dom player. To do so would be an incredibly dumb business move because it would aggravate almost every player of those ATs.

Players don't know the full story but even a brief and uneducated read of the beta bugs section should make it clear to everyone that releasing i19 this week would have been a dumb plan. To hold the release was a good decisions, to communicate the hold was a good decision. The only criticism I have is that it wasn't caught earlier and that there seem to be a lot more crashes since the pre-download. Quality control is slipping and that does need to be addressed. But that's a separate thread not this one.

Yes yes, I saw your post and it made sense. That is why I said, if it was that "doomsday" scenario of a bug that they would have to rollabck the game to unbreak it then yes the delay is warranted. I have read and comprehended what you said thanks.

Maybe you should do the same for me.

This does not change the fact that this game has been dissappointing one after the next. Changing one of the "main" features that was to be included when you purchased GR to the next issue so it became just one big new tutorial, then 3 months later it's only HALF of what the "first level with Going Rogue" meant, at this pace we should have the 10 levels by i40. Not to mention all of the other bugs and broken stuff that has been allowed to persist (Bases, PvP, etc..).....

They can't keep postponing stuff and reducing it, somewhere they have to say something, do it and get it out when there's an expectation for it.

I am more or less upset about the fact that this bug has been prevelant since the beginning of their closed beta testing and they have JUST now gotten around to acknowledging and listening to all of their beta players.

This...

GR and how it's been split into different parts, some of which had to be paid separately is very bush league.

They weren't ignoring it.
They haven't been able to figure it out/fix it.
Working and reworking and debugging code is not quite as simple as flipping hamburgers.
Sometimes problems arise.
If you want to be an all-assuming, rude, negative voice, you can sit here and criticize, make fun of and blame sloppy or inefficient work for there being problems... But it doesn't really say much about yourself.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

The only thing that was removed from GR were the two first ranks of the Alpha slot that we are getting now ...
And it was just that, the Alpha slot itself. No unlocking arc, no TF's to use them on.
It was all rather underwhelming. I'm very glad they decided to postpone it.

The other part that got 'removed' was Ultra Mode. It came sooner and was free.