Discussion: Issue 19 Launch Update
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-11-17 24:10 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
I think the general thought here from every one is thank you for keeping us up to date. Even if it isn't keeping us exactly what is wrong it's nice to get some news on what's happening. Understandable that there are some things that just can't be said or talked about but just giving us a tid bit of information to keep our whistles wet is great. I would gladly wait for a polished version of something in a couple of weeks then a broken version now. You guys are doing a great job, keep it up.
�One of the best lessons children learn through video games is standing still will get them killed quicker than anything else�
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So is it your assertion that that CoX sales figure in the quarterly report only reflects subscription revenue and not sales of expansions and other things?
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Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
I would, if there were any accompanying data that specifically stated that were the reason. There isn't.
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I18 just came out like yesterday, relax. As long as I19 comes out during the calendar year 2010, they are on schedule as far as I'm concerned. That would be three issues this year. One less than the promised 4 updates or quarterly updates originally promised, but considering there were some years we only got two updates, it's all good.
Just get it right instead of giving it to us right now...
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
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Too bad they didn't hold up Issue 17 when they broke the mastermind pet ai.
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Indeed. Any bug that cripples or destroys an AT needs to be fixed before launch. I can wait and others can too. |
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
I18 just came out like yesterday, relax. As long as I19 comes out during the calendar year 2010, they are on schedule as far as I'm concerned. That would be three issues this year. One less than the promised 4 updates or quarterly updates originally promised, but considering there were some years we only got two updates, it's all good.
Just get it right instead of giving it to us right now... |
Besides its more time to plan out the builds that many will respec into.
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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
That'd be spiffy... wish there was a way we could reprogram the Arena for PvP Football for a Thanksgiving day game...
Tankers/Brutes/Lobster form khelds = pass blocking Scrappers/SoAs = receivers Widows/Stalkers = blitzers Dominators/Defenders = defense Controllers = coaches Blasters/Corruptors = QB/kickers/punters Masterminds = special teams And catgurls as cheerleaders. Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
WANT
Unfortunately, without some sort of passable ball mechanic, that won't work. So someone needs to figure out a team game that WOULD work in the current Arena that isn't a variant on "beat the other team in the face until they die". Well, no more than you get in normal football/rugby/Calvinball...
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Your act would be more persuasive and less obvious if you ever posted on a topic other than the terrible, dire financial state of CoH and NCSoft.
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Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
So is it your assertion that that CoX sales figure in the quarterly report only reflects subscription revenue and not sales of expansions and other things?
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You have my thanks for having the wisdom to delay the release of I19. We'd all much rather you spend the time and energy to get it right rather than release a product that will only frustrate us to no end.
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That was not my assertion. Try reading what I typed again. Preferably the entire post, rather than just part of it.
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Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
So is it your assertion that that CoX sales figure in the quarterly report only reflects subscription revenue and not sales of expansions and other things?
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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I would just like to point out this...|
Originally Posted by Championess
I'd even go as far to say that they could have released the issue as is just so long as tanks, broots, scrappers and fire/kins weren't affected by any bugs. Most people would have found a way to play it and the delay to playing their main would have been just as long anyways for when the fix came as it would be by postponing the whole thing.
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Originally Posted by theOcho
The next update to Issue 19 Beta will change the way Inherent Fitness is applied to your character. This transition may cause some problems to characters who have already received the previous version of Inherent Fitness.
The Beta server will be taken down at 4 PM Central, 2 PM Pacific. After this change is published, you will need to submit a new character copy for any character that you wish to use on Beta. Thanks for your patience, |
I don't know about you, but while myself and others might be a little disappointed (but understanding) that I19 didn't launch on the 16th; the entire player base would be screaming bloody murder if we were forced to loose several days worth of game play
I applaud the Dev's decision to wait until everything is fixed and their dedication to making sure that we have the best uninterrupted playtime possible.
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Sorry if i missed something, but trying to understand this branch of the discussion is a bit tricky. |
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
That was not my assertion. Try reading what I typed again. Preferably the entire post, rather than just part of it.
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The original poster you replied to was saying there are less people "playing" now than a year ago but using sales figures as reference.
(Maybe Championess meant less people subscribed?)
Then you were pointing out that sales from the latest quarter is about the same as the same time last year.
(Maybe implying that 3Q10 has about the same subscribers as 3Q09? If not, please clarify)
And that led to my response you quoted from me.
Now if you were focusing more on the other part of Championess post that was trying for a direct cause/effect relationship with server load, that's a different matter i didn't go into because it needs other information that was not referenced.
/edit: Oh, you were wondering what the y-axis represents in FatherXmas' graph was....that looks like south korean won (millions).
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Which, again, people need to keep in mind, as the US dollar--the currency by which the vast majority of CoH players use to pay for their accounts--has become severely devalued in the last few years.|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
/edit: Oh, you were wondering what the y-axis represents in FatherXmas' graph was....that looks like south korean won (millions).
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If, in 2006, there were about 100K active subscribers in the US, much of that same base could still be playing today and paying the exact same amount in US dollars, but would be contributing much less to NCSoft's Korean profit listing.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Which, again, people need to keep in mind, as the US dollar--the currency by which the vast majority of CoH players use to pay for their accounts--has become severely devalued in the last few years.
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Ofcourse. You get a relatively similar graph if you convert to USD.
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Yearly Sales
KRW USD Year
31,475 27,607,023 2004 *Not full year (3 quarters)
34,265 33,199,783 2005
25,016 25,770,998 2006
23,446 25,059,657 2007
24,217 22,335,820 2008
22,909 17,760,819 2009
12,548 10,711,107 2010 *Not full year (3 quarters)
Quarter Sales (mn KRW) Exchange Rate Sales (USD)
KRW (Avg Ask price)
Jun-2004 11,135 1166.46923 9,545,901
Sep-2004 9,403 1155.43587 8,138,054
Dec-2004 10,937 1102.17935 9,923,067
Mar-2005 6,341 1027.27389 6,172,648
Jun-2005 5,806 1009.23659 5,752,863
Sep-2005 6,412 1030.00163 6,225,233
Dec-2005 15,706 1043.65467 15,049,039
Mar-2006 6,523 992.63858 6,571,375
Jun-2006 5,532 964.91358 5,733,156
Sep-2006 7,429 970.11465 7,657,858
Dec-2006 5,532 952.37930 5,808,610
Mar-2007 5,954 953.81251 6,242,317
Jun-2007 6,370 935.85595 6,806,603
Sep-2007 5,721 929.76053 6,153,197
Dec-2007 5,401 922.05946 5,857,540
Mar-2008 5,416 957.24200 5,657,921
Jun-2008 5,743 1020.13255 5,629,661
Sep-2008 6,193 1066.12848 5,808,868
Dec-2008 6,865 1365.35609 5,027,992
Mar-2009 6,837 1415.61656 4,829,698
Jun-2009 6,673 1288.31418 5,179,637
Sep-2009 5,471 1243.32370 4,400,302
Dec-2009 3,928 1172.12370 3,351,182
Mar-2010 3,348 1149.27733 2,913,135
Jun-2010 3,491 1167.69275 2,989,656
Sep-2010 5,709 1187.31793 4,808,316
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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
I18 just came out like yesterday, relax. As long as I19 comes out during the calendar year 2010, they are on schedule as far as I'm concerned. That would be three issues this year. One less than the promised 4 updates or quarterly updates originally promised, but considering there were some years we only got two updates, it's all good.
Just get it right instead of giving it to us right now... |
If you're fine with missed release dates or waiting longer for i19, thats fine, but c'mon, lol.
I18 was released 3 months ago, not 'like yesterday'.
The main point of issue 18/GR, the alpha slot, was supposed to be in going rogue to begin with, and even when it releases, we won't be getting the full alpha slot, so claiming they are 'on schedule' is ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, the second half of going rogue (and the better half imo), is LONG overdue.
And finally, 3 updates (2 of which were supposed to be in one update, and we're assuming i19 will be launched before 2011...) out of a, as you yourself stated, 'promised' 4, is not 'all good', it's another failure to deliver what they 'promised' us. Outside of the ridiculously devoted, that results in disappointed customers and loss of business, which hurts the devs, the game and everyone still playing it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the 'little guys' working on the game (the work they do overall is outstanding, which is why I love this game), this is most likey the fault of those at the top, looking to maximize profits using methods that actually will end up killing them, like swapping out experienced workers for newbs and/or cutting employees all together, while pushing unrealistic work goals, and more damaging, making promises they continually miss on, which is only going to result in more and more disappointed customers.
Having said that, you absolutey cannot release an update if it cripples an entire AT. However that doesn't change the fact that a company needs to deliver on its promises and/or stated goals consistently to continue to be successful.
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I guess that's the reason I said "as far as I'm concerned". Everyone has their own expectations. 3 months seems like "yesterday" to me, why? Baseball playoffs, Football season, new seasons of First 48, Survivor, Dexter, East Bound and Down, and not to mention checking out Spartacus Blood and Sand. I guess what I'm getting at is I'm not sweating a couple of weeks delay if it means getting it right, especially knowing some project development models explicitly forbid working OT (and they may not have the money to pay for it anyway).|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
If you're fine with missed release dates or waiting longer for i19, thats fine, but c'mon, lol.
I19 was released 3 months ago, not 'like yesterday'. The main point of issue 19, the alpha slot, was supposed to be in going rogue to begin with, and even when it releases, we won't be getting the full alpha slot, so claiming they are 'on schedule' is ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, the second half of going rogue (and the better half imo), is LONG overdue. And finally, 3 updates (2 of which were supposed to be in one update, and we're assuming i19 will be launched before 2011...) out of a, as you yourself stated, 'promised' 4, is not 'all good', it's another failure to deliver what they 'promised' us. Outside of the ridiculously devoted, that results in disappointed customers and loss of business, which hurts the devs, the game and everyone still playing it. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the 'little guys' working on the game (the work they do overall is outstanding, which is why I love this game), this is most likey the fault of those at the top, looking to maximize profits using methods that actually will end up killing them, like swapping out experienced workers for newbs and/or cutting employees all together, while pushing unrealistic work goals, and more damaging, making promises they continually miss on, which is only going to result in more and more disappointed customers. Having said that, you absolutey cannot release an update if it cripples an entire AT. However that doesn't change the fact that a company needs to deliver on its promises and/or stated goals consistently to continue to be successful. |
If players are upset about the delay, that's their prerogative; they have every right, but I have to wonder if it were to be released buggy would they complain about that?
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Thank you CoX team for taking the time to address the show stopper bugs which would make many Dominators, and Kheldians player that have them as their mains distraught if they hit the live serves this week.
When an issue is released, sure you have a series of alts, but you usually gravitate to a few that you have a soft spot for. Imagine not being able to enjoy the issue like everyone else?
I like to be considerate of others, and I want them to enjoy the game as much like I do.
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You're right they haven't said much of anything lately. The last M&G they were all about promoting the game and that they were shooting for the 16th and if not it would be the week after thanksgiving. Made sense to me, get the game out there for everyone to play during their extra time off from work, but I guess that almost makes toooo much sense. |
Originally Posted by Disappearing Girl
Why resub just for Alpha strike when you havent even been told that it would be ready? Can't blame NCsoft for what they havent said....
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I guess it was my fault for thinking that they would actually "try" to keep their paying customers happy and not continue the trend of stringing them along with less and less. So when I saw i19 enter into open beta testing last week I had a false sense of "hey they might actually get it out there" so I resubbed to see a glimpse of the incarnate stuff on beta before it hit live. Since they are so good at announcing things in advance the fact that we finally get some kind of word on the 17th about them not releasing on the 16th or during the next two weeks is kind of.....irksome?
My request is just as legitimate as their excuse, sure go ahead and postpone the release, postpone my resub bill by 14 days while they are at it.
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Based on the time period that you re-subbed, you will be able to play I19 before it is up again. No reason to be distraught unless they hold off release till December with that Cataclysmic catastrophe. :P
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Originally Posted by Championess
You're right they haven't said much of anything lately. The last M&G they were all about promoting the game and that they were shooting for the 16th and if not it would be the week after thanksgiving. Made sense to me, get the game out there for everyone to play during their extra time off from work, but I guess that almost makes toooo much sense.
I guess it was my fault for thinking that they would actually "try" to keep their paying customers happy and not continue the trend of stringing them along with less and less. So when I saw i19 enter into open beta testing last week I had a false sense of "hey they might actually get it out there" so I resubbed to see a glimpse of the incarnate stuff on beta before it hit live. Since they are so good at announcing things in advance the fact that we finally get some kind of word on the 17th about them not releasing on the 16th or during the next two weeks is kind of.....irksome? My request is just as legitimate as their excuse, sure go ahead and postpone the release, postpone my resub bill by 14 days while they are at it. |
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The little bars are representations of sales figures. It calculates ANYTHING this game sells as well as subscriptions into the equation. SO. The sales of Going Rogue + Party Pack + all the other boosters + subscription numbers = less than the years previous same equation minus the "expansion" and party pack. |
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Numbers may not lie, but they can obviously be misinterpreted. I look at the graph you tout as evidence, specifically at Q309 (3rd quarter of 2009) and Q310 (3rd quarter 2010), and see virtually identical numbers, with Q310 being slightly HIGHER.
Now granted, without something to say specifically what the y-axis of the graph means, the entire graph is meaningless. Number of paying subscriptions? Then you're wrong. Number of active players? Means nothing in a financial context. Number of new subscriptions? Means nothing without attendant data regarding retention. |
Point of reference, the sales figure for that large mountain in 2Q2005 is JUST subscription numbers + expansion, boosters were not yet in use here.
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If you can't comprehend something don't try to act like you know what you are talking about. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I think the person in question is on a stronger drug than alcohol if they thought the pvp audience in this game was EVER 40%.
Talk about ridiculous ideas. |
Grab a piece of paper and a pencil with a large eraser. In fact you may just want to tell your computer to make sense of it for you.
At it's height of popularity when this game had a thriving population the active population that PvP'd somehow, i.e. ladder leagues, base raids or zone play, was never higher than 15%. BUT at that time 15% meant near 20-24k players to which that would NOW be 40% of the player base.
Yes I never said PvP was as high as 40%, but that the long lost PvP population they alienated would now be around or equal to 40% of the currently active population.
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You're awesome at making up numbers, I think you have a future on Wall Street.
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Originally Posted by Championess
Yes I never said PvP was as high as 40%, but that the long lost PvP population they alienated would now be around or equal to 40% of the currently active population.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Are you a Mender?
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I19 was released 3 months ago, not 'like yesterday'.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I agree with all of this statement and the bolded part conveys my feelings completely.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
If you're fine with missed release dates or waiting longer for i19, thats fine, but c'mon, lol.
I19 was released 3 months ago, not 'like yesterday'. The main point of issue 19, the alpha slot, was supposed to be in going rogue to begin with, and even when it releases, we won't be getting the full alpha slot, so claiming they are 'on schedule' is ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, the second half of going rogue (and the better half imo), is LONG overdue. And finally, 3 updates (2 of which were supposed to be in one update, and we're assuming i19 will be launched before 2011...) out of a, as you yourself stated, 'promised' 4, is not 'all good', it's another failure to deliver what they 'promised' us. Outside of the ridiculously devoted, that results in disappointed customers and loss of business, which hurts the devs, the game and everyone still playing it. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the 'little guys' working on the game (the work they do overall is outstanding, which is why I love this game), this is most likey the fault of those at the top, looking to maximize profits using methods that actually will end up killing them, like swapping out experienced workers for newbs and/or cutting employees all together, while pushing unrealistic work goals, and more damaging, making promises they continually miss on, which is only going to result in more and more disappointed customers. Having said that, you absolutey cannot release an update if it cripples an entire AT. However that doesn't change the fact that a company needs to deliver on its promises and/or stated goals consistently to continue to be successful. |
I have seen them push bugs through with no fix in sight. If the bug going live would in essence delete a toon and the later fix could not happen to restore it then yes the delay is warranted, but there is no way of knowing since they don't say. The dom bug can be worked around.
That being said, these kinds of things should have been worked out by now. Constant delays, pushing back of main features and wholely reducing what most would infer to be included (half alpha slot in "alpha strike") is bad business, they can only look at themselves for such low sales figures compared to the previous "expansion" that came with far more new stuff.
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Shhh!
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Originally Posted by Cyyan
A new Issue launch delayed because of bugs?... are we being punked?, where's the cameras?...
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Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
PvP is something which was, at its height, utilized by 15% of the playerbase; it never achieved better penetration because, frankly, it was (and still is) terrible, just like PvP in any game that isn't expressly designed for it from the outset - if PvP isn't considered in the core class design from the outset of development, you're never going to balance it.
While I sympathize that perhaps the devs should have more receptive of feedback regarding PvP, and I cannot claim to be an expert in the nuances of PvP bugs as I hate PvP in any game and avoid it like the plague (no offense to those who do enjoy it intended), I find it extremely dubious to argue that 3 out of 14 archetypes not functioning properly to the point where serious and possibly permanent character data corruption could occur (in the case of the Kheldian respec bug) and where those three archetypes' core features (Kheldian forms, Domination) do not function properly for a significant subset of people playing them (like, say, all Praetorian dominators, all dominators of any sort under level 20, and all dominators who haven't done 10 villain tip missions and a villain morality mission) is anything BUT showstopping.
(Frankly, I suspect it's the Kheldian bug that's holding it up - I think the devs would push with broken Domination simply because it doesn't bear the possibility of actually damaging character data possibly beyond repair)
I doubt they have the numbers to support such a thing but it might work.
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