Is there anyone who's NOT changing a character for inherent Fitness?
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2010-11-16 07:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I've never considered any of the characters that I use the Leadership pool on leaders. Maybe it would have been more thematic to call the pool Teamwork.
A bunch of characters I've rerolled lately have been doing without, so I'm actually fairly well off respec-wise. The others will all get respecced eventually.
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I have a couple of toons, older 50s with IO sets and all that, and I've spent soo much time tweaking this and buying that, that I consider it a hassle to go back and respec them at all.
@Joshua.
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Originally Posted by Acroyear2
All of my characters. They work just fine without Inherent Fitness, and always have, so I see no need to change them. The fact that the Devs felt the need to force four powers on all characters in the game instead of just addressing the Endurance shortage some characters have is just sloppy work, IMO, and really takes away from the player's choice of how they build their own characters.
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It's not sloppy work. You ASSUME this change was to help certain builds with endurance, but there's no evidence of that. My guess is they've been balancing around the idea that everyone has Fitness for a long time and now that's an even better balance point because everyone does. As for your last comment: Balderdash! How does Letting us take up to four new powers on every toon Take Away from your choices? It ADDS to your choice.
Unless you mean it removes your choice to Not have Fitness, but the Only reason to not have it (currently) is to avoid the investment of powers. Since they're giving it to us free there are NO reasons to not have it.
You're going to say "what about my non-super toon who isn't super fast?"
Frankly, you're in the wrong game, but if you want there's a Walk button for you.
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Originally Posted by ketch
I've never considered any of the characters that I use the Leadership pool on leaders. Maybe it would have been more thematic to call the pool Teamwork.
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That's the name of the Arachnos starting secondary.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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As a personal friend of Acroyear, I must state that you are a tool. He loves this game and there's no reason to tell him to leave. If he disagrees with this change, that's his opinion.
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
Frankly, you're in the wrong game, but if you want there's a Walk button for you.
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I have a level 50 Katana/Regen scrapper who's all IO'd out and wonderful. He won't be getting the inherent Fitness, 'cause he really doesn't need another three powers. Really. There's nothing that I really want him to have, at this point.
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I doubt that part very much. More likely they took a strong look at the game's strengths when compared to other MMO's-- When I fight in many MMO's, my melee characters feel like their feet are glued in one place, swinging away at the foes. There's very little dynamic about them. |
Originally Posted by Wavicle
It's not sloppy work. You ASSUME this change was to help certain builds with endurance, but there's no evidence of that. My guess is they've been balancing around the idea that everyone has Fitness
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Compare that to reviewer who point out the feeling of ACTION he experienced while running and jumping around with their dual-pistols character. That's not an isolated experience-- CoH does a great job of giving a sense of action in the battles... which makes all the endurance-recovery pauses stand out even more. The pauses are too short to serve the game as a socializing catalyst (rest periods in early MMO's were often used to encourage team chatter, building the social bonds in the game) but they are too long to keep the feeling of action continuous. That's fine when its the industry norm, but when you're a 6-year old game trying to remain fresh against newer market entries, breaking from the norm in subtle (non-NGE-level) ways can help keep the sense of exciting pacing going.
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I think you're misreading there. He's not saying to walk away from the game, just that there's a "walk" emote for people who find the new fitness-default speed run too excessive. The "you're in the wrong game" reference is more about the fact that we ARE playing exceptional characters, so being exceptional runners and jumpers by default isn't THAT bad of a leap. Let's face it-- our movement capabilities even before Fitness would make us a city of olympic-medalists.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
As a personal friend of Acroyear, I must state that you are a tool. He loves this game and there's no reason to tell him to leave. If he disagrees with this change, that's his opinion.
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Most applicable part bolded. Seriously, I hate respecing, it's like dull homework when I could be out bashing someone or working on an AE mish. Even with a carefully thought out build on paper in front of me it's a dull PITA. I've only done it... hm, once? that I can recall because the build needed to be rethought after they fixed the way Poison Trap worked. |
Originally Posted by Forefinger_
I have a couple of toons, older 50s with IO sets and all that, and I've spent soo much time tweaking this and buying that, that I consider it a hassle to go back and respec them at all.
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Maybe if they were to someday make respecing more friendly I might... if I ever feel the need to play those toons again.
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I am famously against respeccing, because I hate it, too. (People have actually made me forum avatars to that end.) One thing that would make respeccing easier to take is to allow us just to remove select powers rather than rebuild from square one. Another thing is to let us keep our power tray the way it was. I'm tired of taking a screenshot of my power tray and constantly having to go back and forth referring to it as I re-jigger my powers. Because really all we're doing is switching out one or two powers and keeping the other 97% the same.
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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
Most applicable part bolded. Seriously, I hate respecing, it's like dull homework when I could be out bashing someone or working on an AE mish. Even with a carefully thought out build on paper in front of me it's a dull PITA. I've only done it... hm, once? that I can recall because the build needed to be rethought after they fixed the way Poison Trap worked.
Maybe if they were to someday make respecing more friendly I might... if I ever feel the need to play those toons again. |
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Out of my top ten character, three of them have the Fitness Pool, and I'll likely be respec'ing out them out of it.
I have no idea if they will change their mind when things go live but I have seen quite a few players working on Alpha slots that never bothered with a respec. Checking their power lists still showed Swift, Health and Stamina so I guess if they were happy with their build as is why bother?
I have two 50s on Beta and gave both a respec. I like the added advantage of powers sooner but, as I mentioned, some may never even bother with it. Hey it can be a bit time consuming with a 50 level and then suddenly you find you character in need of more or even some different IOs so its back to Wentworths/Black Market to start purchasing recipes and salvage.. and I have 26 Fifty levels on live not all of which will see a respec or an Alpha Slot for a while. LOL
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I'm debating leaving the first build alone on my 50s and just using the second build as an opportunity to fiddle with inherent fitness. Other than that, I'll go on a case by case basis on whether or not a character needs a new build or can use the second build to see if inherent fitness is the thing for them. Particularly, in the case of my over lvl 32 characters where I only have to worry about adding the occasional standard IO or pick a new power. Already sitting on more inf than I need for most of the over 32s, that I could easily afford a standard IO rebuild out of pocket, and still have plenty to spare, without breaking the build that already works.
All of my characters have Fitness (even my regen scrapper), so, no.
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All of my characters save one, who never had fitness and only needs a bit more stamina, will be respeced. One of the bennies of inherent fitness is that I'll be able to fit Recall Friend into every build now.
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I've already respecced fitness out of all my characters. I started soon after I heard it was going to be inherent, finished up last Sunday. I wanted to use up my old freespecs so I can have another with I19.
Sort of got rushed when I thought I19 was coming out last Tuesday, so I need to go back and fix a bunch of power trays.
So, to answer the question, no.
Most of My existing 50s, (IE 10 out of the 12 of them) Will not be respeccing for this.
Honestly I got their builds and slots and all that where I like them, I'm not bothering to go through the hassle of respeccing them just to put the powers they already have as an inherent. Especially since I'll just get 3 more powers I won't have any slots for and probably don't want that bad.
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And THIS is the main reason I wish that they could have made IF optional.|
Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
Most of My existing 50s, (IE 10 out of the 12 of them) Will not be respeccing for this.
Honestly I got their builds and slots and all that where I like them, I'm not bothering to go through the hassle of respeccing them just to put the powers they already have as an inherent. Especially since I'll just get 3 more powers I won't have any slots for and probably don't want that bad. |
Ideally, you'd get IF at 2, but from 6 on, if you picked one of the powers from Pool Fitness, IF would "grey out" and be unusable. Maybe one day.
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I'm not respeccing any of my toons.
I can count on one hand the number of toons I have on over 3 full servers that have the fitness pool, and still have fingers left over.
I'll put a single enhancement in the slots for health and stamina. And that's it.
I've never had to change my desired build to accommodate fitness and I'm not starting now...
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I could go along with this, currently one reason i'm looking at i19 with some trepidation is because of the slow and non-intuitive nature of respecs...it is going to kind of stink. i'm not a big efficiency gamer so i dont have my character's load-outs memorized, so remembering that afterward, i had other plans for a particular set kind of hurts. i have 60+ characters, 30 that get regular enough play for it to be an issue..i suspect long hours will be lost in an unsatisfying manner. this definitly is the next qol horizon for paragon to attempt, making respecs more sectional and less time consuming.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I am famously against respeccing, because I hate it, too. (People have actually made me forum avatars to that end.) One thing that would make respeccing easier to take is to allow us just to remove select powers rather than rebuild from square one. Another thing is to let us keep our power tray the way it was. I'm tired of taking a screenshot of my power tray and constantly having to go back and forth referring to it as I re-jigger my powers. Because really all we're doing is switching out one or two powers and keeping the other 97% the same.
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Sadly I think 98% of this playerbase would probably consider making Inherent Fitness optional instead of "mandatory" to be pointless.|
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
And THIS is the main reason I wish that they could have made IF optional.
Ideally, you'd get IF at 2, but from 6 on, if you picked one of the powers from Pool Fitness, IF would "grey out" and be unusable. Maybe one day. |
They don't seem to realize that even if most people chose to use Fitness on their builds at least it was still a CHOICE we had for ourselves. People seem to be perfectly willing to lose that kind of control over their characters just for the sake of cookie-cutter expediency.
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And this is my issue with Issue 19(heh). I never minded that the majority of people took the fitness pool. I do mind having it forced on me even in cases where I would not have taken it. Making it optional seems to me, to be the logical thing to do. Even if you have to opt in for the entire pool or nothing.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Sadly I think 98% of this playerbase would probably consider making Inherent Fitness optional instead of "mandatory" to be pointless.
They don't seem to realize that even if most people chose to use Fitness on their builds at least it was still a CHOICE we had for ourselves. People seem to be perfectly willing to lose that kind of control over their characters just for the sake of cookie-cutter expediency. |
Maybe I just don't have the whole story, but with customization being the foremost attraction in this game, how does taking choices away line up with that design philosophy?
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It is only being "forced" on new characters or characters you choose to respec. All your existing characters can continue to run slower, jump lower, heal slower and recover endurance slower.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
And this is my issue with Issue 19(heh). I never minded that the majority of people took the fitness pool. I do mind having it forced on me even in cases where I would not have taken it. Making it optional seems to me, to be the logical thing to do. Even if you have to opt in for the entire pool or nothing.
Maybe I just don't have the whole story, but with customization being the foremost attraction in this game, how does taking choices away line up with that design philosophy? |
I suspect that the very, very few of you who don't want inherent Fitness are not worth the Devs' time to make it optional. This is a change that has been requested since Beta. This game tries to provide a huge amount of customization, but there is always the cost/benefit consideration -- whether the few people who want (or don't want) a particular option is worth spending the time making it optional. If the Devs had unlimited resources, I'm sure they would love to let you choose whether or not to take Fitness as an inherent.
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I am a heavy user of stamina and have it on almost every one of my characters, so I suspect that over time I will respec all of them. The good news is that I don't see any huge reason to hurry in most cases, because the characters are fine the way they are. I will probably do something like one or two respecs a week, since that's about all I can tolerate.