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Rick - you are NOT the zombie!
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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
Dr. Povitch!
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I'm actually willing to chalk it up to yet another continuity/story error. This show has been full of them. |
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
Here's something to think about/possible plothole:
Dr. J says the zombie "virus" only controls the brain stem and what makes "you, you" is never activated. So how do we explain Morgan's wife returning to the house and trying the door knob in the pilot and Amy's slight (though maybe just coincidental) recognition of Andrea when she reanimated? |
But if you wanted to grasp at a "workable" explaination we know that the Doctor himself knew very little about what caused the zombie condition. He told us people can reanimate in anywhere from as little as a few minutes to a few days. So it's reasonable to assume a few zombies may actually retain a tiny portion of their humanity on some primal level. Maybe zombies who had a real strong attachment to other people (like Andrea and Amy or the mom from the first show had) can keep some flicker of attachment or unconscious desire to return to those people. Who knows?
This show just seems to make up things as it goes along so I'd say almost anything is possible...
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Originally Posted by Frogfather
The wife is pregnant, Shane is the father and this **** is going to come to a head next season.
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Now I'm not denying that Lori may be pregnant and that may very well spark into a confrontation between Shane and Rick eventually. I'm just saying that would happen regardless of what the Doctor said. Why would the writers "waste" a dramatic whisper on a plot point that's going to happen anyway?
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I look at it this way: a pregnancy screen isn't out of the question in an ELE situation. Sure, Dr. Povitch is going to die, and he thinks humanity is doomed, but he might be curious if this nascent community was already starting to reproduce, even in the face of zombie apocalypse.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Frankly if what the Doctor whispered into Rick's ear was something along the lines of "Your wife is pregnant" I'm going to be pretty annoyed with this show because that would be a completely stupid thing to whisper. The Doctor wouldn't bother to waste what was effectively his last dying thoughts/concerns to Rick over something so mundane and silly. He would have absolutely no idea that her being pregnant was a "secret" thing between Shane and her and while he was checking for the zombie pathogens he's not going to be wasting any time with paternity DNA testing.
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Who's to say this is a secret between Shane and Lori? Neither may know (I don't know how it plays out in the comic), but Povitch does know that Rick is not the father, so that's why he'd whisper it to him so that Rick can make the choice about what he does with that information.
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Yeah but you're making a lot of assumptions there:|
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
I look at it this way: a pregnancy screen isn't out of the question in an ELE situation. Sure, Dr. Povitch is going to die, and he thinks humanity is doomed, but he might be curious if this nascent community was already starting to reproduce, even in the face of zombie apocalypse.
Who's to say this is a secret between Shane and Lori? Neither may know (I don't know how it plays out in the comic), but Povitch does know that Rick is not the father, so that's why he'd whisper it to him so that Rick can make the choice about what he does with that information. |
1) First you're assuming she pregnant at all. Yes, it's quite possible that she is given that we've see her with Shane, but we as the audience don't know that yet.
2) If she is pregnant it's equally possible it's Rick's. Remember we saw Lori and Rick "together" as well.
3) Assuming she's pregnant and assuming the Doctor found out why on Earth would he have any reason to guess it wasn't Rick's? After all he knew they were husband and wife and had no idea Shane was a potential father in this situation.
4) Yes I agree that the Doctor might be optimistic about the idea of new babies being born to help humanity but why on Earth would he whisper that? Most everyone else was running out the door so there really wasn't anyone else around to hear what he had to say whether it was a "secret" to anyone or not.
Bottomline the only reason the Doctor whispered ANYTHING to Rick was to keep it secret from us, the audience. The makers of the TV show wanted us to know that the Doctor told Rick SOMETHING very important, but didn't want us the audience to know exactly what that something was yet.
I'm just having a very hard time thinking the makers of the show would waste the potential of the season finale cliffhanger "whisper" on a plot point that's going to reveal itself regardless. If Lori's pregnant that fact will become obvious on its own and the show is going to have to deal with the "Who's the father?" controversy when the time comes.
*** SPOLIER ALERT ***
It was mentioned earlier in this thread a few weeks ago that the comic book established that pretty much everyone who is alive is already infected with the zombie disease. The disease just waits for the body to die for it to take over.
Now remember what the Doctor said when they asked him "Did everything check out with our blood samples?" He responded with some vague comment like "Yeah, pretty much what I expected". Given this info I strongly suspect what the Doctor whispered to Rick was more along the lines of "I must warn you that you all have the zombie disease and you're going to have to decide how you want to handle telling everyone else about it."
That seems far, far more likely than him just saying something like "Hey dude your wife's knocked up."
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Hmm, this does seem far more logical than the soap opera question of is Lori pregnant, and who's the father ...
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Yeah but you're making a lot of assumptions there:
1) First you're assuming she pregnant at all. Yes, it's quite possible that she is given that we've see her with Shane, but we as the audience don't know that yet. 2) If she is pregnant it's equally possible it's Rick's. Remember we saw Lori and Rick "together" as well. 3) Assuming she's pregnant and assuming the Doctor found out why on Earth would he have any reason to guess it wasn't Rick's? After all he knew they were husband and wife and had no idea Shane was a potential father in this situation. 4) Yes I agree that the Doctor might be optimistic about the idea of new babies being born to help humanity but why on Earth would he whisper that? Most everyone else was running out the door so there really wasn't anyone else around to hear what he had to say whether it was a "secret" to anyone or not. Bottomline the only reason the Doctor whispered ANYTHING to Rick was to keep it secret from us, the audience. The makers of the TV show wanted us to know that the Doctor told Rick SOMETHING very important, but didn't want us the audience to know exactly what that something was yet. I'm just having a very hard time thinking the makers of the show would waste the potential of the season finale cliffhanger "whisper" on a plot point that's going to reveal itself regardless. If Lori's pregnant that fact will become obvious on its own and the show is going to have to deal with the "Who's the father?" controversy when the time comes. *** SPOLIER ALERT *** It was mentioned earlier in this thread a few weeks ago that the comic book established that pretty much everyone who is alive is already infected with the zombie disease. The disease just waits for the body to die for it to take over. Now remember what the Doctor said when they asked him "Did everything check out with our blood samples?" He responded with some vague comment like "Yeah, pretty much what I expected". Given this info I strongly suspect what the Doctor whispered to Rick was more along the lines of "I must warn you that you all have the zombie disease and you're going to have to decide how you want to handle telling everyone else about it." That seems far, far more likely than him just saying something like "Hey dude your wife's knocked up." |
I think the spoiler you're talking about way too much information to give Rick at this point in the story, but who knows? I think it's obvious that the writers are playing with the fact that readers of the comic have a lot more information about the story than they normally would.
I think both possibilities would require secrecy: the first because it's a personal matter for Rick (that his wife is pregnant but not by him), and the second because Jenner would only want the nominal leader to have the information to prevent the group from falling apart right then and there (obviously he was willing to let the group crisp with him, but when he saw they were going on anyway he wouldn't want to sow the seeds of their destruction by making that revelation public).
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I think he told Rick where the last supply of Twinkies is hidden.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Again I have no doubt that the whole potential "Who's the father?" blame game is a very likely scenario that'll play out during the next season of the show. They definitely planted (no pun intended) those seeds in the shows we've seen so far. But I think you're hung up on being certain that it would have to be Shane's baby. You do remember there was that very obvious scene in the 3rd episode that had Rick and Lori "celebrating" his return in the tent while their son slept nearby right?|
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
I think the spoiler you're talking about way too much information to give Rick at this point in the story, but who knows? I think it's obvious that the writers are playing with the fact that readers of the comic have a lot more information about the story than they normally would.
I think both possibilities would require secrecy: the first because it's a personal matter for Rick (that his wife is pregnant but not by him), and the second because Jenner would only want the nominal leader to have the information to prevent the group from falling apart right then and there (obviously he was willing to let the group crisp with him, but when he saw they were going on anyway he wouldn't want to sow the seeds of their destruction by making that revelation public). |
For there to be the proper level of dramatic angst over this situation it would be far better story-wise for this thing to be a "surprise" baby and for there to be a level of uncertainty about whose baby it is. If the Doctor wasted his last moments whispering to Rick that not only is Lori pregnant but that he knows Shane is the father then a huge amount of the OMG! factor that would make this situation truly tragic would be totally deflated. No, it's going to be far more "fun" for us as an audience to see this baby situation explode and have Shane and Rick fighting over not knowing whose baby it is.
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God: Arthur, King of the Britons, your Knights of the Round Table shall have a task to make them an example in these dark times.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I think he told Rick where the last supply of Twinkies is hidden.
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King Arthur: Good idea, O Lord!
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Since the celebration its been what? 4 days...less? Do blood tests show pregnancy that fast? Im asking, I dont know.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Again I have no doubt that the whole potential "Who's the father?" blame game is a very likely scenario that'll play out during the next season of the show. They definitely planted (no pun intended) those seeds in the shows we've seen so far. But I think you're hung up on being certain that it would have to be Shane's baby. You do remember there was that very obvious scene in the 3rd episode that had Rick and Lori "celebrating" his return in the tent while their son slept nearby right?
For there to be the proper level of dramatic angst over this situation it would be far better story-wise for this thing to be a "surprise" baby and for there to be a level of uncertainty about whose baby it is. If the Doctor wasted his last moments whispering to Rick that not only is Lori pregnant but that he knows Shane is the father then a huge amount of the OMG! factor that would make this situation truly tragic would be totally deflated. No, it's going to be far more "fun" for us as an audience to see this baby situation explode and have Shane and Rick fighting over not knowing whose baby it is. |
I think the Doctor whispered because this is a private matter. He just got done telling Rick "Someday you wont be grateful for that chance". So its in character to tell him something like that. I think a zombie apocalypse isnt the best time to have a baby, I dont think the doctor thought it would bring hope at all. Okay so maybe there will be some doubt in Shane and Loris mind when the news hits and that will cause the tension.
On a side note, can we just cut the comic book spoilers out? I want to discuss, not get everything handed to me. I guess Ill take ownership and not come to this thread anymore.
Thanks
--Frog
Next time on THE TALKING DEAD:
Dr. Povitch: Rick... you are NOT the father.
Rick: I'm 'a kill you, Shane!
Dr. Povitch: Shane... you are NOT the father.
Shane: In your face, Rick! Er... Hah?
Merle: They tried to kill me, Lori, but I was too tough for 'em!
Rick: Merle?
Shane: Merle?
Unidentified Dead Guy: blurg?
Lori: Merle! Stud muffin! You're back!
Merle: Call me 'Stumpy'.
Dr. Povitch: Merle... you ARE the father!
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For what it's worth I've never read the comic this was based on. I just passed along some comic book info (with spoiler alerts) that someone else posted here a few weeks ago (which also was spoiler alerted). |
Originally Posted by Frogfather
On a side note, can we just cut the comic book spoilers out? I want to discuss, not get everything handed to me. I guess Ill take ownership and not come to this thread anymore.
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Since this TV show is based on a pre-existing comic book that's been around for several years I think it's probably reasonable to expect people are going to compare/contrast what's in the show versus what's in the comic book. I suppose if it bothers you that much then maybe you should avoid this thread from now on. Sorry, I guess. *shrugs*
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They have an expiration date dammit!
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Originally Posted by swellguy
i think he told rick where the last supply of twinkies is hidden.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Yeah, 2399. May.
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Originally Posted by Quasadu
They have an expiration date dammit!
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An apology was neither merited nor asked for. A half hearted one also isnt appreciated.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
For what it's worth I've never read the comic this was based on. I just passed along some comic book info (with spoiler alerts) that someone else posted here a few weeks ago (which also was spoiler alerted).
Since this TV show is based on a pre-existing comic book that's been around for several years I think it's probably reasonable to expect people are going to compare/contrast what's in the show versus what's in the comic book. I suppose if it bothers you that much then maybe you should avoid this thread from now on. Sorry, I guess. *shrugs* |
For the record you neither compared nor contrasted the two but revealed a major plot point. Im more than happy to discuss the merits of the comic book compared with the series. I must have missed the earlier spoiler reveal....I believe you, I just happened to miss it. Or maybe I read it and forgot...its immaterial at best.
Im going to take your advice...which in and of itself is hardly merited considering thats the course of action I recommended I take.
Best of luck and enjoy the series
--Frog
"Everyone already" infected would be a more dramatic choice. It would allow Rick to further feel the burden of guiding these people, and increase his Jack-complex. It is a terrible secret to hold onto and I can imagine a scene next year where someone dies naturally and Rick scrambles to shoot them in the head while others stand around, horrified. We already see Rick cracking around the edges. Bearing a secret that affects everyone in the gorup, and heck, every one in the world, would further those cracks.
The pregnancy thing is possible too, but I think Dr. J insisting to take everyone's blood and his vague response to Rick's question about the tests indicates there as some reason other than rulimg them out being noticeably infected (as Andrea points out, they aren't running a fever, so why bother?) No doubt the Lori/Rick/Shane love triangle will ramp up next season (Kirkman has indicated as much), and a baby makes sense (for many reasons), but I don't think that's what Dr. J was talking about.
Or maybe it is both: "Everyone is infected and your wife is also pregnant."
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Learned behavior that is so ingrained that one doesn't even think about what they are doing. The brain goes into autopilot mode and responds to stimuli, to varying degrees based on the subject and the stimuli, without active participation of the conscious mind.|
Originally Posted by Luminara
Residual neural activity, or "spillover" from the virus' electrical activity spreading slightly along the existing neural paths. Probably strong at death, gradually diminishing as the brain dries out or decays.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Yeah, 2399. May.
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I just finished volume 12 of the comic. GAH! It's a setup volume. Something is going to happen and I can't put my finger on it. It's gonna be a long wait till volume 13.
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No, they don't. Need to be 10 days post-conception IIRC.|
Originally Posted by Frogfather
Since the celebration its been what? 4 days...less? Do blood tests show pregnancy that fast? Im asking, I dont know.
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(Just went through this entire process this weekend, had a discussion with the doctor yesterday, so its pretty fresh in my mind!)
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Wow could this response have been any more passive-aggressive. Whatever floats your boat. |
Originally Posted by Frogfather
An apology was neither merited nor asked for. A half hearted one also isnt appreciated.
For the record you neither compared nor contrasted the two but revealed a major plot point. Im more than happy to discuss the merits of the comic book compared with the series. I must have missed the earlier spoiler reveal....I believe you, I just happened to miss it. Or maybe I read it and forgot...its immaterial at best. Im going to take your advice...which in and of itself is hardly merited considering thats the course of action I recommended I take. Best of luck and enjoy the series --Frog |
Strictly speaking I wasn't really apologizing for anything. I was explaining what I wrote and why I wrote it. You implied that I "wronged" you here by throwing a spoiler at you despite my ample warning so I guess I gave this the half hearted mea culpa I thought it deserved. *shrugs*
Secondly I might not have strictly compared or contrasted the show versus the comic, but if one were to "discuss the merits of the comic book compared with the series" (which you claim is acceptable) then someone would have to bring up the points that make the TV show different than the comic via what some would consider "spoilers".
And as far as that goes I did include a SPOLIER ALERT. It was your choice to keep reading my post or not so why you seem to be upset with me is mysterious at best. People who've actually read the comic have been dropping spoilers left and right in this thread and when I come along and simply -repeat- one of those you get upset with ME for it?
Well I suppose if you're a person who hates spoilers then you have a valid right to complain about it. But why you apparently chose my post to pick on when there were plenty of better choices for that I'll never know.
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As far as the time frame of possible conception with Rick, didn't Andrea or Jacqui tell the doctor they hadn't eaten in days? Assuming so we know they ate the last day of camp and Rick went back for Merle the day before that or that day, which was possibly a day or more after the possible conception with Rick. So therefore it could easily have been around 10 days or more. Plus if it was/is Shane's baby then the time frame really is inconsequential to everyone but Rick.
I have only read the first issue of the graphic novel and if what Lothic's spoiler says is true then that makes WAY more sense for the Dr. to tell Rick.
I'm thinking it could have been a bigger revelation than her being pregnant, but not by Rick. Can they really tell that from a blood test? Since Jenner could actually take a blood sample from Rick's son, I'm thinking that Rick's son might really be Shane's and that an affair had been going for years. From Rick and Shane's conversation before the shootout in the first episode, it didn't sound like Rick's marriage was in the best shape.
@Joshua.
Dawn of the Ted
Didn't see this posted here.
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I was watching that and thinking, "Misery Bear is one badass zombie killer!", but no, it just turns out he needs to lay off the Jack Daniels.
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Originally Posted by Flarstux
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Yes, but this is also a show where zombies exist, and a medium where cops can get DNA tests back in 15 minutes.
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Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
No, they don't. Need to be 10 days post-conception IIRC.
(Just went through this entire process this weekend, had a discussion with the doctor yesterday, so its pretty fresh in my mind!) |
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I too will be disappointed if the big secret was that Lori was pregnant. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me on several levels.
1) Even if the doctor found out she was pregnant, why would he think it wasn't Rick's baby? Why even run a DNA test to see who the father was unless, A) he was just that nosy, or B) they revealed to him during dinner that Rick was in a coma for a month.
2) Speaking of dinner, Lori was hitting the wine pretty hard. You'd think if the doctor knew she was pregnant, he'd assume from the boozing that she didn't know, and maybe he would tell her.
3) From an out-of-story perspective, like others have said, if Lori is pregnant, it will come to light eventually anyway, so why waste a cliffhanger on it? Although, if it takes her a couple more weeks of in-show time to realize she's pregnant, then it would confuse the issue of whether Rick or Shane is the father.
I never read the comic book, but I think the spoiler mentioned earlier makes much more sense. Prior to reading that, I assumed the secret was going to have something to do with the origin of the virus.
At the beginning of the episode, didn't Jenner record something to the effect that they had been in Wildfire mode for 100+ days, and that the public exposure had taken place 30-something days earlier? I assumed that meant the virus was created, or discovered, sometime before the beginning of the series and there was an accident that caused it to escape containment. When we learned that Jenner's wife also worked at the CDC, I figured she was exposed in the accident and that's why she volunteered for the study.
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