Tweets of the PAX Panel
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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All of my toons have ss/cj. I want both of those to be inherent too :\
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Originally Posted by Pinny
To people doomsaying about fitness being inherit.
Pretty much every character has stamina already, and those that don't are character types that don't use much endurance or already have a "stamina" of their own. All this is doing is freeing up some power/slot choices. Don't see how that makes the game any easier than already having stamina. Unless of course being able to put 5 slots in boxing now makes the game soo much easier than it originally was. |
<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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The developers aren't out to please everyone.
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
All of my toons have ss/cj. I want both of those to be inherent too :\
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@War-Nugget
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
CoH players are stupid and incompetent compared to WoW players.
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You haven't been paying much attention then. Nobody likes the party pack, and the devs have been boasting super-difficult Incarnate content for the future. Which is how it should be. The game should have a curve, starting easy and ending up as hard as you want it to be. There's no need to force players to pick a bunch of unnecessary powers below level 20. That doesn't make the game easier, it just makes the game boring and repetitive.
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
Sorry, "the right" was my mistake :P I just hate how this game is gravitating towards rp (party pack) and catering towards being easy.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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oh well!|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
All of my toons have ss/cj. I want both of those to be inherent too :\
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fitness is being made inherent because its performance benefits were seen as absolutely essential by the entire playerbase.
No other pool powers come close to that sort of ubiquity, not even Hasten.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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It be nice if you addressed any of the issues raised as to why this might be a good thing rather than "forum people are dumb, devs listen to me". While the forum-goers aren't perfect and there's a bit of misinformation that lingers, they're often the primary source for indepth information on game mechanics. For example, look at Arcana and Oedipus_Tex's discussion of Jolting Chain, which works very differently than how many (myself included) assumed it worked. Look at the work of the Market forum when they identified drop rates differing from the reported numbers. If you want the devs to listen to pvp'ers, badges, and base builders than you want them to listen to forum goers because they are the same people.
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
I just don't thinking listening to people who don't know how to play the game, benefits anyone. I wish they'd listen to pvper's, I wish they'd listen to base builders.... or even badgers.
The forums create a new kind of stupid, that the devs actually follow. I'm sorry, but fitness as an inherent.... hate to say it... but lrn2play. |
Sorry :P I guess this is the one release everyone loves. I shouldn't say anything bad about it. Sorry again.
<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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Sounds about right. Cool.|
Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
I'll have to track down the quote for you, but as far as I can remember, yes it was. I seem to remember the gist of it was that people were supposed to be able to build characters as freely as possible, and so creating any power so mindbogglingly across-the-board useful that people felt they HAD to take it was a mistake. The question was whether changing it at this stage wouldn't make for more problems.
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You know - while they're doing big changes? I'd gladly wave bye-bye to my shiny new City Travel VR perk if the devs would make travel powers available at level 6 like the current competition (not sure when the soon-to-come competitor will allow for travel powers - creation?). I think that would be a good improvement too.
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Not everyone does, however.|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
All of my toons have ss/cj. I want both of those to be inherent too :\
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Yet nearly every single character on every server will have Stamina and it's pre-reqs.
And its from a pool thats meant to be optional. Hmm.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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So I just can't have an opinion? I need numbers or market research?
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Originally Posted by ketch
It be nice if you addressed any of the issues raised as to why this might be a good thing rather than "forum people are dumb, devs listen to me". While the forum-goers aren't perfect and there's a bit of misinformation that lingers, they're often the primary source for indepth information on game mechanics. For example, look at Arcana and Oedipus_Tex's discussion of Jolting Chain, which works very differently than how many (myself included) assumed it worked. Look at the work of the Market forum when they identified drop rates differing from the reported numbers. If you want the devs to listen to pvp'ers, badges, and base builders than you want them to listen to forum goers because they are the same people.
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<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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This. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Not everyone does, however.
Yet nearly every single character on every server will have Stamina and it's pre-reqs. And its from a pool thats meant to be optional. Hmm. |
I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand about this.
Anyway..this is awesome news.
Actions speak louder than Vets.
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I definitely agree, Psyte... But i don't think it's impossible.|
Originally Posted by Psyte
Hrm... that'd be a brutal schedule. I'd say that 1st or 2nd quater 2011 seems more reasonable for me.
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How much of i19s content has already been, at least in part, run through the Ringer for GR before it was pulled? Balance definitely is going to need to be tested on the ten slots combined... (or however many it'll launch with!) but we know Praetoria works and I'm almost 90% sure that unlocking it will satisfy the "Content" part of the issue. Plus the Apex Task Force, of course.
Toss in a few neat toys and you've already got an issue. Maybe not the fullest or most expansive issue ever, but... "Fall 2010" is between now and, what? November? 2 months to beta-test and launch by November 1st, if they were pushing it hard. If not it'll almost certainly launch a week BEFORE Thanksgiving, since they won't want to spend all they vacation worrying about the thing and need a few days to patch...
And issue 20 will be in beta from now 'til whenever... Launching it the week before Christmas gives the devs 16 weeks, with 10 weeks of split attention.
Hmm... You're right. January looks more reasonable. But I'm not going to say Christmas is impossible.
-Rachel-
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At least 90% of my alts do not take Hasten.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
oh well!
fitness is being made inherent because its performance benefits were seen as absolutely essential by the entire playerbase. No other pool powers come close to that sort of ubiquity, not even Hasten. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
The first person to take this bet gets 100 million influence from me if I'm wrong. Issue 20 is going to be CoH 2.0, the closest thing to a sequel this game will probably ever get.
I feel like a lot of things going on in CoH/V right now is tying up loose ends, giving long time players what they want, and clearing the way for the inevitable upgrade. I predict some kind of unification to lead the game into a centralized "world." Something to get everyone playing all in the same place, instead of split between paragon, rogue and preatoria.
Issue 20 having a concurrent beta with I19 development?
It's gotta be a separate entity.
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It's not that you don't like it. It's just the counter arguements are so incredibly weak.|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
Sorry :P I guess this is the one release everyone loves. I shouldn't say anything bad about it. Sorry again.
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Hell, I don't PvP except for once in a blue moon, and I still think I13 was terrible. I'm also an RPer, and I also like to devise quite obscene builds (Perma-Hasten Nightwidow. People in my SG demanded I post the build on our forums as proof
)So, it's not people going "GTFO, we don't like doom, praise the devs yaaaay!!"
It's people being thankful they no longer have to play the power equivelant of sidekick tetris just to be able to run missions on most characters.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Its all in the presentation of opinion and facts.|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
Sorry :P I guess this is the one release everyone loves. I shouldn't say anything bad about it. Sorry again.
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And sorry - we can get defensive/snarky too. I know I took offense to the "dumbing down" comment, which was immature of me. Of course, I also figure if someone wants to play a complex, crunchy game then COH would never appeal to them in the first place.
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I think you're misunderstanding the point of the fitness change.|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
All of my toons have ss/cj. I want both of those to be inherent too :\
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Fitness is made inherent because there is no real "alternative" to fitness. They checked and showed that the vast majority of characters in the game over level 20 have Stamina. There's really no alternative to Stamina. A few select builds can get away without it, like /Traps MMs and /Regen Scrappers. But heck I even have Stamina on those characters.
Stamina is considered a "necessity" for nearly every build and every AT. There's always someone who speaks up and notes that they can get away without it, but they are the minority. Data mining confirmed that. Nearly everyone has Stamina because it's so simple and all-encompassing and there's almost no way around it. Everyone feels like they have to have it.
Super Speed is not a "necessity." Nobody considers SS an essential part of every build for every character. In fact there are six easy alternatives to SS: Super Jump, Flight, Teleport, Ninja Run, doing local missions (newspapers, AE), and having someone else carry you around. If SS was made inherent, all the travels would. Every character could fly, with super speed, and teleport. Not only would this give everyone the full advantage of complete mobility, but it would also pretty much completely invalidate Ninja Run (except for the few levels between it and when the other powers unlock).
It would also give everyone extremely easy access to BotZ and knockback prevention which is like a whole other thing.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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opinions are only as valuable as the logical framework supporting them.|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
So I just can't have an opinion? I need numbers or market research?
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you're not obligated to defend yours, but then of course we're not obligated to respect them.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Noone is forced to take these powers by level 20. That's entirely a decision by the player.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
There's no need to force players to pick a bunch of unnecessary powers below level 20.
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I've taken Stamina, but I've never taken it by 20. Usually it's more like 24 or 28 because I'll never skip a fun power in favour of a fitness pool pre-req. The idea that you must spend 3 power picks on Fitness by level 20 (and maybe 2 on travel powers) is false, and probably one reason why so many people are getting stomped by the missions in Praetoria.
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There are a number of people with that theory (or something similar). I know for me I'm looking more at it as City of Heroes: Volume 2 (so beta-i19 would be Volume 1). NCSoft has promoted Aion 2.0, so its not unheard of.
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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
The first person to take this bet gets 100 million influence from me if I'm wrong. Issue 20 is going to be CoH 2.0, the closest thing to a sequel this game will probably ever get.
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My reply to you is lrn2live. You want hard? Get out in the real world and find something to challenge you. The rest of us will be relaxing with a fun pastime taking a break from challenging lives.|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
I just don't thinking listening to people who don't know how to play the game, benefits anyone. I wish they'd listen to pvper's, I wish they'd listen to base builders.... or even badgers.
The forums create a new kind of stupid, that the devs actually follow. I'm sorry, but fitness as an inherent.... hate to say it... but lrn2play. |
You want a hard? Take up chess and let us know when you hold some international titles. Or perhaps the stock market and shower us all with your billions because you beat everyone at 'the game'.
It's a text book definition of insanity to think you are the only one that is right.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
Ah come on..thats means i got to pick 3 powers on my brute now tht i wont use or can even slot..wth!. all my toons now have to find 3 powers tht i dont want.
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Ninja Run is completely optional. You purchase it for $10, in a booster pack. So, being optional .. who cares if you invalidate it ? |
Originally Posted by Dispari
In fact there are six easy alternatives to SS: Super Jump, Flight, Teleport, Ninja Run, doing local missions (newspapers, AE), and having someone else carry you around. If SS was made inherent, all the travels would. Every character could fly, with super speed, and teleport. Not only would this give everyone the full advantage of complete mobility, but it would also pretty much completely invalidate Ninja Run (except for the few levels between it and when the other powers unlock).
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@War-Nugget
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
CoH players are stupid and incompetent compared to WoW players.
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When you want to accuse a group of "creat[ing] a new kind of stupid" maybe you should have some examples to cite. An unfounded opinion is always less valued than one with something to back it.
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Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
So I just can't have an opinion? I need numbers or market research?
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Thought at least someone else wouldn't like this change :\ My fault for being toasted/saying I was displeased. Go ahead with the dev love :P I don't have facts to support my dread.
<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
I like everything that is going to come . Makes me want to play my 50s more now , other than you know.. boring ITFs/LGTFs...
"New" inherents, frees of 3 slots on all of my characters. On those characters, I always slot Stamina .. I better still beable to do so.
3 extra pool picks on my already softcapped Stone/Stone brute .. looks like I'll be pushing power picks back and picking up an APP, more recovery never hurts!