Tweets of the PAX Panel
Just wondering if anyone recalls one of the reasons for not giving regen to brutes was because of quick recovery at level 4 and how a brute with significantly less endurance management issues in the early game would present balance concerns.
Or am I just making that up? If I'm not just making that up then it seems every brute now gets that ability from level 1/2 on! |
I dont know about this stamina thing. Something tells me we are going to pay for this in some way.
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Whether its powers costing more endurance or the implimentation [sic] of more critters who end drain but at lower levels. Think about fighting that crazy electric chick boss that shows up in the tip missions but at like level 5. No one would be able to beat that even with stamina.
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A higher challenge critter is not a penalty. You will also never get that guarantee. I guarantee it.
Well because since day 1 they have never given us something just because. I cant think of a single instance of them giving us something for nothing like with this stamina change. I am pretty sure we are going to have some penalty for this. Either increased power costs or sappers at level 2, its going to be one or the other.
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Seriously, do you try to be as wrong as you possibly can? Or is it just... an inherent?
So wait... does this mean we all now get inherent Swift and Hurdle, instead of having to choose one or the other?
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All will be slot-able just like now, and this will free up another pool power set choice (as the Fitness pool no longer counts towards your limit of pool power sets). You will gain free access to these powers at lvl 1 or 2 (Castle can't remember which... but does it really matter?).
Funny, that perfectly describes every single rez power in the game.
*smirk* Kinda puts a hole in your argument there, doesn't it? |
Rezzing is healz0ring. It's a different 'playstyle', it's a very effective tool [and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the healz0r types combining veng into their rez cycles]. However, notice that there isn't a similar discussion in this thread about how everyone will be picking up Resuscitate with their new found power selections. Yes, it's been mentioned [and it too is a very useful 1slot power], but it's hardly expected that Awakens will become as worthless as Essence of the Earth in Ouroborus.
Self-rezing is, perhaps, a better comparison. Since those are usually not on healz0rs [Hai guys! I'm FIRE LORD, I will be your MEDIC today! FLAMING BANDAGES OF LIFE AWAY!], but instead on traditional primary damage roles [or tanking roles]. Those, however, have the added benefit of fitting the primary or secondary powerset concept far easier. But they're still a utility power.
Let's Dance!
PuGs are PuGs are PuGs. The powers and builds that allow people to softcap their teams are common and readily accessible, but people still run around looking for "healers".
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the prediction that some significant number of players will flock to Vengeance, creating an epidemic of UberTeams running roughshod over the game requires completely ignoring six years of accumulated player behavior.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I am sick to death of the Fitness pool, because taking Swift/Hurdle then Health then Stamina gives me nothing new in my Powers tray to play with. When I've levelled, I want something new, something that goes Zap or Boom or Whoosh, something that makes me think of superheroes, something I can see.
Yes, I know the Fitness pool isn't obligatory, but given that Stamina use is relevant to almost every single power in the game (more so than Recharge, even) taking it just plain makes sense. For that reason, it feels like one of those boring, sensible things that isn't any fun in itself but which you know you really ought to do, like filling in a tax return or using dental floss. I can't wait until it's made inherent, I really can't.
/facepalm
No... you will have exactly the same amount of slots to use on Primary, Secondary, Pool and Ancillary Powers. Exactly. The same. No change. Identical. You won't get any more slots, but you [/i]will have 3 more powers[/i] to use. You can opt to move/put slots into those powers, or not. If you don't, your build will remain the same, except with 3 more utility/situational/fun powers. |
Think about it, at current, say my DP/Psi blaster has all her powers and the fitness trio. That works just fine.
Now Fitness is made Inherent powers. So I have the exact same powers, and as you said the three new ones. Say I take boxing, tough and weave.
I now need to find the slots to put in tough and weave (boxing I'll leave at one) to make them actually worth having. And thats if I dont want to keep Health and Stamina 3 slotted.
So, there will indeed be a slot 'shortage' as it were. It won't affect every AT or every set the same way, but some may find it trickier to balance than others.
Still in full support of it, but it may lead to some radical build re-shufflings across the board.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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At the risk of sounding redundant ...
I know this has been danced around but it's been argued that we will now have fewer slots, however, overall we are actually being given four more total slots.
What we are getting is four more powers.
It's really a glass half-empty mindset that turns this fact around and tries to make it seem like we will have fewer slots. We will end up with lower ratio of total slots per total number of powers , but the total number of slots is actually increasing.
Yes, it will mean that most builds will be even more slot hungry but that's not the same thing as having fewer slots.
Tighter build? Subjective to the needs/specifics of the player. Moot point to argue.
Penalty? Why would there be... Base Health and Stamina do little to boost any toon to levels that would make them broken (outside of those that have mastered the art of being Staminaless - but still not broken). I mean, look at VEATs and Conditioning.
To maximize both Health and Stamina (in builds that necessitate that); extra slots would need to be spent... creating an slot offset *for most players* (uber players that are will to and can afford to min/max with IO Uniques and Sets are the minority and are mostly irrelevant to the overall picture; (ie. so what if 10-15% of you can slot an extra LoTG: Recharge? Most won't, can't or don't need/desire to do it.))
Making powers cost more endurance, or throwing out tons of critters that use -End/-Recov would defeat the purpose of making the Fitness Pool free; especially being that only one of those four powers has anything to do with Endurance. Besides, they've already added mobs that reflect the new powersets added (including Electric Control)
Vengeance will be cool for my /Kin builds and maybe my MMs and VEATs...
[Did changing Brawl into an non-endurance damage IO mule change anything else in the game?]
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
I think this'll lead to diversity, I think it's a good thing. I think following it up by giving 5 or even more slots for that 50th level would be a great counterpoint to it.
I think the tiny fraction of builds for which /EA made sense for brutes just got even smaller.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
After 41+ pages of discussion, the fact that most of you are obsessing about the Fitness pool becoming inherent more than any other feature announced for I19 at PAX really says something.
I'm not sure what - but it really says something nonetheless... |
something seems off here....
*notices the toilet is draining ...Backwards
*everyone seems to have a goatee...even the women
Damn you Cole! what have you done to primal earth!
Kittens give Morbo gas.
I think this'll lead to diversity, I think it's a good thing. I think following it up by giving 5 or even more slots for that 50th level would be a great counterpoint to it.
I think the tiny fraction of builds for which /EA made sense for brutes just got even smaller. |
How does this change in any way affect /EA different or more than other brute secondareis? It's not as if Brutes went without stamina before ...
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
seconded. given everything else up for discussion the only thing worth 800 posts and 40 pages is fitness?
something seems off here.... *notices the toilet is draining ...Backwards *everyone seems to have a goatee...even the women Damn you Cole! what have you done to primal earth! |
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
It's not...when I want to run slightly faster. It's not a problem for my /SR scrapper or my /elec brute. Do I want another speed boost on top of those? Well maybe...but can I have that choice instead of having it dumped on top of me? If I want to run at sprint speed, can't I just turn on sprint? Or is the trend to make sprint less relevant now?
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Let's say you have a level 50 character with no movement bonuses. That's 14.32mph base run speed. Tack on 35% of base run speed, and you are at 19.33mph. So we're talking about a 5mph buff at the highest level of the game. If you turn Sprint on, have other run speed powers (Quickness, Superspeed, Ninja Run) or movement bonuses, Swift has even less of a relative impact on movement speed.
Unslotted swift will NOT have you running at Sprint speed.
I wonder what change the tone of the tip missions means.
I think the villainous nature, for example, of the villain tips is one of the big hits.
PuGs are PuGs are PuGs. The powers and builds that allow people to softcap their teams are common and readily accessible, but people still run around looking for "healers". I think the notion that some vast greater percentage of teams will be running around like demi-gods because of it is silly, because if it were going to happen, it already would happen a lot more today at later levels. "Typical" players tend to shun most conditional powers, even ones as good as Vengeance. Will more people pick up Vengeance? Yes, almost certainly. Might that have a network effect and raise the percentage of users even higher? Probably. Is it going to be a game-balance changing transition? I seriously doubt it.
There are only two pieces of content I regularly see Vengeance used for where I think it makes a big different almost without question: the STF and the RSF last mission AV/Hero fights. Even in those situations, it's usually but not always primarily being used to buff summoned pets such as Shivans, who benefit far more from the +toHit and +damage aspects of the power than most player character builds, having no accuracy slotting and no damage slotting as players do. I can tell you though that with the advent of Villain epic ATs, the number of RSFs I went on that didn't use Vengeance at all went up noticeably.
.....
I'll agree completely that if you've got a sterotypical PuG team in the 20+ range, with fairly mundane, non-Set IO builds, low to moderate experience with the game, and no one providing large-scale defense buffs, adding Vengeance to the team can make a tremendous difference. I just don't think there's going to be such an increase in the number of people using it, that these teams see a measurable uplift in performance. Time will tell.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA