In my opinion, the rest of the development of the game needs to be focused on convergence between the heroes, villains, and the in-betweeners. Any new zones that are made should be done in a capacity which brings these factions together. More task forces and trials which bring them on the same team. More endgame content which all sides can enjoy together. We have enough zones where these players are apart from each other, and some zones which are nonsensical (like Cimerora) which ultimately have been abandoned. And ideally, effort could be put forth to improve the existing zones, and increase the available number of storylines or missions which can be done.
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Well here's the post again. Where exactly does he imply endgame content is pointless crap?|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Yes he did indeed imply that endgame content is "pointless crap" compared to the delights of adding ever more lowbie content. All anyone has to do is read post #244 and see for themselves. I'm really not even sure why you would bother implying otherwise, but that's to the side.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Okay, now fast forward a year and a half. Are you sick of that new endgame content that you were begging for yet?
I bet you are. We've been given endgame content several times already. "What endgame content?" you ask? That stuff you're complaining is old and stale. That was endgame content. Any NEW endgame content will stay fresh and exciting.....for maybe two months tops. Once the quickest, most expedient method of completing it for the reward it offers reaches the masses, it will become just as old and stale as everything else. The devs decided the move they were going to make was the move designed to give NEW players something to do with the game they just bought. It doesn't make any sense at all to market a game to potential new players and tell them "Oh, you need to get to level 50 before you can do the stuff we did in this expansion." Sure, they could have done both lowbie content AND endgame content, but I would wager that if they had done that, both bits of content would suck because they rushed through it. I can't speak for everyone, but I would rather have a smaller amount of GOOD content than a larger amount of pointless crap any day of the week. |
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| I can't speak for everyone, but I would rather have a smaller amount of GOOD content than a larger amount of pointless crap any day of the week. |
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Cimerora has a use, though. That is where one of the best Tfs in the game can be found, and so it isnt totally dead. Heroes can run it. Villains can run it. Its a good money-maker for those ever-crafting level 50s. |
Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
In my opinion, the rest of the development of the game needs to be focused on convergence between the heroes, villains, and the in-betweeners. Any new zones that are made should be done in a capacity which brings these factions together. More task forces and trials which bring them on the same team. More endgame content which all sides can enjoy together. We have enough zones where these players are apart from each other, and some zones which are nonsensical (like Cimerora) which ultimately have been abandoned. And ideally, effort could be put forth to improve the existing zones, and increase the available number of storylines or missions which can be done.
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My problem with Cim is that [to me] it is a massive disconnect from the rest of the game. We have good guys over here in a big city, bad guys over there in several smaller cities including one zone of such danger and complexity that its like will probably never be seen again [G'Ville] - & then SHAZAAM! off we go to ancient Rome...? k.
Would like to see a new co-op zone which resembled Dark Astoria. Maybe ALL LEVELS could have mishes in it, have a big TF for the 50s and then everyone would have something to do. That would be really fun.
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Agree with basically all of this.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Cimerora has a use, though. That is where one of the best Tfs in the game can be found, and so it isnt totally dead. Heroes can run it. Villains can run it. Its a good money-maker for those ever-crafting level 50s.
My problem with Cim is that [to me] it is a massive disconnect from the rest of the game. We have good guys over here in a big city, bad guys over there in several smaller cities including one zone of such danger and complexity that its like will probably never be seen again [G'Ville] - & then SHAZAAM! off we go to ancient Rome...? k. Would like to see a new co-op zone which resembled Dark Astoria. Maybe ALL LEVELS could have mishes in it, have a big TF for the 50s and then everyone would have something to do. That would be really fun. |
Random Roman Zone never made a lick of sense to me, and I've been calling for a Dark Astoria Co-op zone for years.
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The thing I've always disliked about the co-op zones is it sort of undermines the point of having the different factions. They all tend to do the "larger threat that we all need to work together to defeat!" thing, which ultimately fits with heroes but sort of whitewashes villains. The more you have of these, the less distinct the factions become.|
Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
In my opinion, the rest of the development of the game needs to be focused on convergence between the heroes, villains, and the in-betweeners. Any new zones that are made should be done in a capacity which brings these factions together. More task forces and trials which bring them on the same team. More endgame content which all sides can enjoy together. We have enough zones where these players are apart from each other, and some zones which are nonsensical (like Cimerora) which ultimately have been abandoned. And ideally, effort could be put forth to improve the existing zones, and increase the available number of storylines or missions which can be done.
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I'd rather they do more zones like Ouroboros. Use the same zone, but have there be access to different stories for each faction. Obviously this requires more writing as it'd need more arcs than normal, but using the same zone would hopefully allow Issues to be more inclusive when it comes to new content that's added.
Personally, I've always been fond of the idea of having storyarcs that can be told from either side.
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I havent farmed this game in over a year... so no, dedicated I am not. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'm pretty sure that's exactly why P_P suggested it be done that way. She is a dedicated farmer and would rather make farming easier for herself. I can easily see her starting a bunch of trial accounts to act as fillers on her main accounts team so she can get the most from her farming.
And just to be clear I have nothing against people that farm, I'm just stating what extremes I can imagine one person is willing to go to. It's also not a personal attack on her, just an opinion. |
What I want is for more people to subscribe and play... and bringing us new pay expansions that give low level content, is not the way to go.
They need to give lv 50 characters new things to do. They need to start focusing on us... the people who have held subscriptions for 60+ months. My illusive friends, that stopped playing... They are long time subscription holders... and they have all recently cancelled due to nothing new to do for their characters.
:edit:
And I wrote it that way on purpose, I said Characters/People... That means FILLERS COULD NOT HAPPEN. You wouldn't be able to just set the teamsize for this lv 50 Epic End game content. You could play on a team for the set team requirements or it would scale down.. and rewards would be set to your teamsize.
I will never be like some of you, head buried in the sand. I get that you like the game the way it is, and are happy when they give you new low level stuff. For alot of other people thoe, that just isnt much of a draw.
I do hope the Issue 19 is awesome, but for everyone I know... It will be the tell all for this game. Will they stay subscribed, resubscribe... or just stay cancelled.
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PP, I like you, but please don't speak for "us" the 60+ monthers. |
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
I havent farmed this game in over a year... so no, dedicated I am not.
What I want is for more people to subscribe and play... and bringing us new pay expansions that give low level content, is not the way to go. They need to give lv 50 characters new things to do. They need to start focusing on us... the people who have held subscriptions for 60+ months. My illusive friends, that stopped playing... They are long time subscription holders... and they have all recently cancelled due to nothing new to do for their characters. :edit: And I wrote it that way on purpose, I said Characters/People... That means FILLERS COULD NOT HAPPEN. You wouldn't be able to just set the teamsize for this lv 50 Epic End game content. You could play on a team for the set team requirements or it would scale down.. and rewards would be set to your teamsize. I will never be like some of you, head buried in the sand. I get that you like the game the way it is, and are happy when they give you new low level stuff. For alot of other people thoe, that just isnt much of a draw. I do hope the Issue 19 is awesome, but for everyone I know... It will be the tell all for this game. Will they stay subscribed, resubscribe... or just stay cancelled. |
I've been here 60+ months. I've got plenty of friends that have been here 60+ months, and all of us were more interested in what GR delivered than any possible endgame addition.
The devs have access to the data. The devs have alluded several times to the fact that many long-term-active accounts don't bother to level to 50-- it was one of the reasons given of making Epic AT's open at 20. They have the datamining to make intelligent decisions on what will appeal to the broadest base of their market, and I believe they acted on that data with Going Rogue, particularly given the scope of the feedback they've gotten.
You represent a particular playstyle of 60+ monther... I admittedly represent a very different playstyle... I don't claim to be in the majority, but I don't claim to speak for the whole market segment either. I know my interests lie different from yours and respect that by not claiming to speak for you.
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Do you even know what a filler is? Seriously?|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
And I wrote it that way on purpose, I said Characters/People... That means FILLERS COULD NOT HAPPEN. You wouldn't be able to just set the teamsize for this lv 50 Epic End game content. You could play on a team for the set team requirements or it would scale down.. and rewards would be set to your teamsize.
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| I do hope the Issue 19 is awesome, but for everyone I know... It will be the tell all for this game. Will they stay subscribed, resubscribe... or just stay cancelled. |
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The biggest problem I have with Praetoria now? It's gated. And it's destroyed my endgame, which is taking my high-level characters to lowbie zones and teaming (auto-exemplaring) with newbies. Yeah, I'm crazy like that.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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maybe you shouldnt speak for the other 60+ month players then.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
PP, I like you, but please don't speak for "us" the 60+ monthers.
I've been here 60+ months. I've got plenty of friends that have been here 60+ months, and all of us were more interested in what GR delivered than any possible endgame addition. The devs have access to the data. The devs have alluded several times to the fact that many long-term-active accounts don't bother to level to 50-- it was one of the reasons given of making Epic AT's open at 20. They have the datamining to make intelligent decisions on what will appeal to the broadest base of their market, and I believe they acted on that data with Going Rogue, particularly given the scope of the feedback they've gotten. You represent a particular playstyle of 60+ monther... I admittedly represent a very different playstyle... I don't claim to be in the majority, but I don't claim to speak for the whole market segment either. I know my interests lie different from yours and respect that by not claiming to speak for you. |
pp is right..not only right ..but damn right! ..i want end game and the focus to be about me and my buttload of money ive spent here.not the 2 nubs who wont be here past a year and with subs dropping you better maintain the playerbase first! epic fail for that droppage too i might add
in the end...i cancelled both my accounts and so did quite a few also 60+ month players that i know. and do you wanna know why?
CAUSE IM FREAKING BORED!...i dont wanna do lvl 1-20 and never will again. i got 25 lvl 50s ..i dont wanna do new no travel power/stamina phase ever again and i wont.
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um..hi im one of pp's friend at the revolving door...my accounts are both cancelled as of sept 4th.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Do you even know what a filler is? Seriously?
This is not the first time I've read this from you. Either you have a revolving door of friends, or this won't be the last chance to recapture them. |
got a problem with my door?
Hahaha too damn funny, stunned at these replies.
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And how many times have you canceled and returned to cancel again, or are you a new friend?|
Originally Posted by Severe
um..hi im one of pp's friend at the revolving door...my accounts are both cancelled as of sept 4th.
|
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| got a problem with my door? |
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Just to be clear when I used the term "dedicated farmer" I was referring to a preferred style of playing any game not just CoH.
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
I havent farmed this game in over a year... so no, dedicated I am not.
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It needs to be veiwed in the ciontext of Incarnates and the Coming Storm |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Random Roman Zone never made a lick of sense to me
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Ever hear of the fable of the Boy who cried, "Wolf!"? Your own post history shows that you've been complaining about things for 5 years yet you keep coming back. There's no reason for us to assume this pattern of behavior won't continue. Furthermore "I'm Quitting!" posts never evoke the "Oh Noes!" concern the poster expects. Instead they are viewed with humor and derision.|
Originally Posted by Severe
maybe you shouldnt speak for the other 60+ month players then.
pp is right..not only right ..but damn right! ..i want end game and the focus to be about me and my buttload of money ive spent here.not the 2 nubs who wont be here past a year and with subs dropping you better maintain the playerbase first! epic fail for that droppage too i might add in the end...i cancelled both my accounts and so did quite a few also 60+ month players that i know. and do you wanna know why? CAUSE IM FREAKING BORED!...i dont wanna do lvl 1-20 and never will again. i got 25 lvl 50s ..i dont wanna do new no travel power/stamina phase ever again and i wont. |
So enjoy the break you are taking from the game. Use it to recharge your batteries. Your 25 level 50's will be waiting for you when you return.
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He explicitly said he did not. Total reading comprehension fail on your part despite the fact he went out of his way to explicitly state it. With that level of fail i suspect you didn't even read the post beyond skimming it before reinventing it in your head into something completely different. Quoting it when your reply makes it obvious you didn't read it is a rather absurd move.|
Originally Posted by Severe
maybe you shouldnt speak for the other 60+ month players then.
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i think i've been seeing "the latest issue sucks, i'm quitting" posts from you for over three years now. Which is fine and dandy if it makes you feel good, but saying you're taking a break would be more believable at this point. Announcing that you're quitting for the nth time (where n>5) won't get you taken seriously.* Instead it inspires a severe lack of credibility.
*i've known people who quit smoking at least a few dozen times. Eventually i started complimenting them on how much better their quitting skills were. They've quit dozens of times, but i only managed to quit smoking once.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I'm wondering how these 60+ vets who are bored, outraged and constantly quitting until new content comes, are contributing more to the game than new players who may also only stay for a few months at a time.
Last I checked, as long as money is coming from somewhere, new or old players really don't make much difference from a financial point of view.
When I took a one and a half year break from the game a while back, I was not supporting this game with my subscription money for this period. I was not of any financial value to NCSoft/Cryptic.
A new player who started when I quit and continued to play for even just 6 months had more value than I did. Doesn't matter how many level 50s I have. I'm not paying a subscription.
If you are a 60+ month vet and are horribly bored playing this game, then perhaps taking a nice long break makes perfect sense until it gets something that you can sink your teeth into. Do you know how many other games are out there? Tons of good stuff! Don't limit yourself.
COX has distinguished itself from other MMOs by not following them very closely in how it does certain things. And yet people who apparently enjoyed a game that was distinctly different from other MMOs are now calling for it to more closely follow the crowd that it had distanced itself from.
IMO, COX needs to do even more to widen that gap and offer something different. In the end, though, its NCSoft and Paragon Studios' call on where they focus their resources. I don't think it's accidental that they chose to focus on low level content, and considering how many Vets I see enjoying it along with new players, I'd say they did something right. YMMV.
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There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but as the game ages the factions seem to become less important. When you can see a Stalker strolling across the Portal Co. courtyard, factions have definitely become less important. | The thing I've always disliked about the co-op zones is it sort of undermines the point of having the different factions. They all tend to do the "larger threat that we all need to work together to defeat!" thing, which ultimately fits with heroes but sort of whitewashes villains. The more you have of these, the less distinct the factions become |
Truly villainous villains can just stay redside and stay "pure." And vice versa. The problem with that is that this may hamper playing with your friends.... so, more co-op stuff helps ease the problem for diehard players looking for new things to earn cash with for those level 50 characters and their ever-open beaks. Plus lets admit, playing a level 50 is definitely more fun than playing a pre-stamina. I didn't go through all those levels just to park the character when I hit 50 - far from it.
I cannot understand all these people continually urging others to quit at the least provocation. Instead of going, "Well you know, you might be right... maybe we do need new things to do at all levels, what a good idea. We've just devoted an entire issue to the pre-stamina levels, now its time to break out the complex and challenging end content," its all [in essence] "Haha! don't like it? GTFO! We don't need your money!"
We may well need the money of disgruntled people leaving. After all, for all this wondrous new pre-stamina content, I see most of the servers are already back down to one green dot. So much for that endlessly-fascinating new lowbie content....? hm.
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No one with a brain thinks we don't need new content at all levels. The objection is to the notion that the specific type of content the complainer demands is obviously what the devs should have made their singular priority.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I cannot understand all these people continually urging others to quit at the least provocation. Instead of going, "Well you know, you might be right... maybe we do need new things to do at all levels, what a good idea. We've just devoted an entire issue to the pre-stamina levels, now its time to break out the complex and challenging end content," its all [in essence] "Haha! don't like it? GTFO! We don't need your money!"
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If someone says "I think the devs should make sure the new content they are developing gets eventually balanced across all levels" well you know, they might be right. If someone says "the devs were idiots for making content everyone blows through in minutes anyway and everyone hates" then no, they aren't right. And while I don't personally tend to ask such people to quit, I'm also disinclined to go out of my way to save them from the inevitable and deserved backlash.
If that's all it takes for those players to go berserk, I can't imagine they are good for the long-term health of the player population. It won't be the first or last time the devs do something that sets them off into deciding to share their misery with their peers.
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remember how big 300 was, remember how many threads there were for spear melee, and a persian enemy group? now i doubt that was the sole motivator, but it was something very commonly asked for by the community.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Agree with basically all of this.
Random Roman Zone never made a lick of sense to me, and I've been calling for a Dark Astoria Co-op zone for years. |
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Originally Posted by Slashman
I'm wondering how these 60+ vets who are bored, outraged and constantly quitting until new content comes, are contributing more to the game than new players who may also only stay for a few months at a time.
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I think I see something you may have overlooked about those types of posts. If you do the math real quick you'll see that if the people that have a history of posting those "I'm Quitting" posts actually cancelled their subs between new issues then there is no way they would have earned 60+ months of vet rewards. So they are either lying about how many vet rewards they earned or they are lying about cancelling their subs, or the time frame their account was inactive was so short it that it can't be considered quitting the game. Like a month or so here and there spread out over 5 years.
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No, she's not. Are you stepping up to speak for the vets now?|
Originally Posted by Severe
maybe you shouldnt speak for the other 60+ month players then.
pp is right..not only right ..but damn right! |
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Originally Posted by Severe
um..hi im one of pp's friend at the revolving door...my accounts are both cancelled as of sept 4th.
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It's funny, when I first read that sentence I interpreted it incorrectly. I took it to mean "existing content should be scalable to all levels." That's something I have been thinking about for a long time. Now, I would certainly not say "all content," but let's look at tfs. I enjoy doing them, but I am not particularly a fan of losing powers or enhancement strength, so while I will occasionally exemp down for one, I am more likely just to do it on a character in the appropriate level range.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If someone says "I think the devs should make sure the new content they are developing gets eventually balanced across all levels" well you know, they might be right.
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However, what if tfs scaled to the leader or highest member of a team. In other words, instead of doing it at the current level cap for that tf, you do it as high as your level allows. Some of them wouldn't need much work at all, actually. Sister Psyche, Citadel, Manticore, Numina: all of these enemy groups exist at level 50. Obviously if the group has different mobs at 50, those would be in the missions. Lower level tfs would need more serious modification, but even that would be pretty doable. Synapse could have you fighting psychic clockwork.
I actually think this could be done for Praetoria's low level arcs. A lot of people already believe the mobs have powers more suited for medium to high level anyway, just crank them up a bit more and anyone could run these arcs while not having to suffer early level weakness(once primals are allowed in, obviously).
I think that allowing tfs or other content to scale all the way to 50 could be a relatively low-effort way to give 50s more to do.
This lowbie vs. elite character [and what is a level 50, if not an elite? He or she is at the top of the food-chain] may be in part due to differing playstyles: some people love to roll many, many alts, playing them all every now and then - or perhaps turning off xp - never focusing on getting anyone to 50, just having fun. And this is certainly valid, because as I said before it takes all kinds.
And then there are people like me. People who do not rush to 50 in eight hours flat, true but who get to 50 relatively quickly AND THEN THE GAME BEGINS. People like me are interested in very finely-tuned characters who end up being extremely expensive to craft for. The kind of cash needed for the best enhancements the game has to offer can take some effort, and so these characters run many, many strike forces.
And maybe we don't actually like to farm. So we want more things for our tricked-out 50s to do.... like run TFs. I state this for the benefit of the argument in general, I am well aware that you would disagree with anything I said just for the sake of doing so. My rationale matters not, right? Right.