Prediction: Selectively reading that last post will result in the following message being reinforced.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
... you read ... good. ... you can support your own comments.
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hey just saying..dcuo is out in november.
star wars mmo is coming as well...the longer you make me wait for real content not in the beginners class the less a chance i and alot more wont return.
lots of big deals coming out very soon. this year was NOT a year to skimp on things .
oh and btw..i said it on your facebook and ill say it here too. merge the servers with the eu people and help us help you maintain a player base.you alienate them too much already and the servers are dead over there. give em a bone already
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Star wars mmo had a budget projected at over 10x this game's original budget and a bigger dev team... as star wars dev himself said, they need to hit ONE MILLION subscribers just to have a chance at breaking even.|
Originally Posted by Severe
hey just saying..dcuo is out in november.
star wars mmo is coming as well...the longer you make me wait for real content not in the beginners class the less a chance i and alot more wont return. lots of big deals coming out very soon. this year was NOT a year to skimp on things . |
Comparing that to a game that hit their profitability projections when they hit 100k subscribers... well, no offense to CoH, but thats kinda like telling a local bar band they'd better get their act together because Lada Gaga's new album is coming out and is gonna pwn them.
There will be some inevitable subscriber loss for it, but you can't play a superhero there, so not too worried.
DCUO? Not thrilled with direction of the art style, but its growing on me. Never was thrilled with the idea of playing DC Universe... particularly the alternate-spin they're taking here, but I know it'll have some draw... but much the same was said about CO.
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| oh and btw..i said it on your facebook and ill say it here too. merge the servers with the eu people and help us help you maintain a player base.you alienate them too much already and the servers are dead over there. give em a bone already |
Servers are localized for several reasons- and even the technical issues (like increased transoceanic latency affecting the user experience) could be addressed, you'd still have the legal, social, and contractual barriers to address. Partnerships are made to do business there- obligations and roles for both sides are defined. Different regions have different laws and expectations and liabilities, and the partners help manage these differences. All that needs addressed.
I was impressed when I was told that AoC managed to have universal transoceanic servers- the game's combat system is much more prone to latency and they apparently hurdled many of the organizational and legal issues... but CoH came out before AoC, will have older underlying tech, and already has agreements that'll take a lot to get broken or redone.
Now, also I don't know a lot about the EU servers, but I'd assume that merging the language-specific servers with a nation that doesn't speak that server really won't have THAT big of an impact in the player populations there....
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Oh where have I heard this old song and dance before? Oh yeah, every single time a new game has been released over the past six years. We're still here and so are all the people guys like you claimed were going to leave and never come back. Everything from STO in February all the way back to WOW was supposed to kill the game and steal all the customers. And the doom never happened. So guess what. If the 800lb MMO gorilla couldn't kill this game off DCUO and SW:TOR don't stand a chance.|
Originally Posted by Severe
hey just saying..dcuo is out in november.
star wars mmo is coming as well...the longer you make me wait for real content not in the beginners class the less a chance i and alot more wont return. lots of big deals coming out very soon. this year was NOT a year to skimp on things . |
So don't let the door hit you on your backside as you exit the building, but don't worry we'll keep your stuff safe for when you return. And you will return. They always come crawling back.
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I'll say this. If they did merge the server lists and let the EU players have their own language specific servers they would still see an uprise in their populations because there's no way the NA players are going to pass up additional character slots. And I'm sure we'll see EU players joyfully making alts on the NA servers and chatting gibberish in their native languages. And I for one will be welcoming them with open arms even tho I'll have no frakkin idea what the hell their are saying. |
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Now, also I don't know a lot about the EU servers, but I'd assume that merging the language-specific servers with a nation that doesn't speak that server really won't have THAT big of an impact in the player populations there....
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I don't need to poolay voo or sprechen their deutch to team with them.
I agree with the OP.
That being said, on my FB I have constantly tried to get more people to come back to this game with the 7 day trial account. Explaining to them all that have changed. I swear, the biggest thing I have come across is people not knowing that debt doesn't suck anymore.
How long has that change been in effect? Forever.
Things people who have tried the demo have said they liked:
Powers Customization, except you can't change travel power colors...
The exp smoothing, they seem to like.
Praetoria looks new and exciting, but the maps are all the same after awhile...
Lots of Powers to chose from...
That is pretty much all the feedback I have gotten.
My husband and I played through the Loyalist story. We slowed down, took us about a week. Blah.
His biggest whine was, "Why in the Hell was all this new content Pre-Stamina?" and my biggest whine was, "Omg... Nothing to do after leaving Praetoria."
So we are not back to where we were Pre-expansion. Not Logging in. On my Global List, I think we saw 3 out of 72 log back in for the expansion. I have talked to others on FB, and they said they are waiting til there is new things to do on their 50's... Other than switch sides. (they have done all the content on both sides of the game and have no desire to do it again)
I really, really wish Incarnates had been the paid expansion... and Going Rogue would have just been a really big Issue 18.
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Come back in a few months when the Incarnate stuff comes out. If i was tired of the current game that's what i would do.|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
I agree with the OP.
That being said, on my FB I have constantly tried to get more people to come back to this game with the 7 day trial account. Explaining to them all that have changed. I swear, the biggest thing I have come across is people not knowing that debt doesn't suck anymore. How long has that change been in effect? Forever. Things people who have tried the demo have said they liked: Powers Customization, except you can't change travel power colors... The exp smoothing, they seem to like. Praetoria looks new and exciting, but the maps are all the same after awhile... Lots of Powers to chose from... That is pretty much all the feedback I have gotten. My husband and I played through the Loyalist story. We slowed down, took us about a week. Blah. His biggest whine was, "Why in the Hell was all this new content Pre-Stamina?" and my biggest whine was, "Omg... Nothing to do after leaving Praetoria." So we are not back to where we were Pre-expansion. Not Logging in. On my Global List, I think we saw 3 out of 72 log back in for the expansion. I have talked to others on FB, and they said they are waiting til there is new things to do on their 50's... Other than switch sides. (they have done all the content on both sides of the game and have no desire to do it again) I really, really wish Incarnates had been the paid expansion... and Going Rogue would have just been a really big Issue 18. |
As it is i've only just finished the two main Loyalist arcs and still working on my Resistance alts. My Loyalist ill/emp went redside. Illusions and deception has generally been a more villainous schtick in comics anyway. That and doing some side switching and other stuff. Also teaming with people i know and just having fun blowing stuff up together.
If you're not getting that out of the game do what i've done a couple times and take a break from playing. If you still don't enjoy it then it may be time to move on to other things. No point in subscribing to a game you don't enjoy.
Regarding your signature: i haven't personally managed to go back in time more than a few picoseconds. Luckily i was still enjoying the game that far back. If you've found a way of traveling back in time that beats that i'm quite interested in learning the method.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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oooOOK, I will bite. Translate: if post #244 is not a strong argument PRO-new lowbie content, and dismissive of new endgame content as "pointless crap," what exactly is it? Feel free to break it completely down and tell everyone exactly what it is; I'm curious as to your interpretation. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Translation: What ClawsandEffect actually wrote isn't relevant. B_I has decided it means something entirely different.
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Myself, I want endgame content [defined in this instance as new trials and TF/SFs, as well as perhaps a new raid or two, esp. a la Ship raids] and I don't really give a damn about lowbie content, and here's why:
I will be a lowbie for [in essence] five minutes flat.
I can be a level 50 for literally years.
Not everyone feels this way, and that's why you don't hear me holding forth about how lowbie content is "pointless crap": some people love being a level 5, takes all kinds and they are in the game just like I am. Let them have their fun being pounded by boss-level minions [<-----disclaimer: sarcasm alert! not a literal statement!] in Praetoria - go for it.
However now we are ready for more end game content. Anyone not agreeing can just not run the new endgame content, sort of how like I am staying out of Praetoria. Seems fair to me.
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There's your problem. You're wasting all your time on Facebook >_>|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
On my Global List, I think we saw 3 out of 72 log back in for the expansion. I have talked to others on FB, and they said they are waiting til there is new things to do on their 50's... Other than switch sides.
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But so far, I've only taken 1 character through Pretoria (1.5 I guess because I had to remake him at lvl 12). It was interesting but after that, I kind of want that character's backstory to be Pratoria and kinda doesn't fit with a slew of other characters in my head (yet).
That said, I've actually been playing on my Spines/DA stalker project I made ages ago. Have to say, he kicks butt now that Cloak of Fear suppresses with Hide.
I've been working on getting him some IOs in my spare time. After him, I plan to log onto my MA/Shield scrapper and try respecing him into Cobra Strike and see how he plays.
All in all, I'm having lots of fun and I haven't even delved into the new sets, really.
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Nonsense.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Keep deluding that CoV was made from scratch, it wasn't. Everquest and Everquest 2 are standalone games, CoV was an expansion onto a pre-existing game.
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Lots of folks bought the CoV box and played the game and had no access to hero zones or hero content.
Players with pre-existing accounts could certainly add CoV to the mix, but plenty of folk *just* had CoV and nothing else.
Whatever term marketing cooked up for it, it was also a stand-alone game.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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This. I'm ready for end game content. Difficult, challenging end game content. Stuff harder than the STF and LRSF. Anything less will be a disappointment. |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
However now we are ready for more end game content. Anyone not agreeing can just not run the new endgame content, sort of how like I am staying out of Praetoria. Seems fair to me.
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All this other stuff we have been getting is nice, don't get me wrong. But it's not enough to keep my interest anymore. I19 is the issue that will decide if I keep playing or not.
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Widower, I am so with you on this one. Any MMORPG where getting to max level as soon as possible to experience the "end game" is your top priority is antithesis to the concept of a virtual reality where going to from level 1 to max level is where all the adventure really is.|
Originally Posted by TheWidower
You know, I've never understood this whole "Endgame" thing that people always ask for in an MMORPG. How exactly do you "end" a game when it's very nature requires it to be perpetual?
If you really want to be able to "end" your character's career as a hero, Villain, or Praetorian then you really have no further to look than the big red DELETE button. |
I've always admired the CoX devs for their focus on widening the content in game--adding more content to the low and medium levels--instead of just increasing the maximum level every 6 months, and tagging the new content on the end.
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*throws in his hat*|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Nonsense.
Lots of folks bought the CoV box and played the game and had no access to hero zones or hero content. Players with pre-existing accounts could certainly add CoV to the mix, but plenty of folk *just* had CoV and nothing else. Whatever term marketing cooked up for it, it was also a stand-alone game. |
That was me. Years ago I received a best buy gift card and had no idea what to spend it on so I surfed around their site and found some game called City of Villains. It sounded kinda fun so I bought it.
I can totally see where people like PP are coming from and honestly if I wasn't enjoying the basic ability to play with anyone at all do to being vigilante/rogue I'd feel the same. Just being able to team with all archetypes has made the game more enjoyable to me.
I really want Incarnate content but, I really want it done right. I'm willing to wait for I19 if I have to if that will mean there is A) a way to make my 50s better and B) something to do with my new super tweaked toons.
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There's nothing to interpret. Claws was quite clear when he made his post. He never said endgame content itself was "pointless crap". That was solely in your imagination and you had to take it out of context in order to get there. This is what he actually said.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
oooOOK, I will bite. Translate: if post #244 is not a strong argument PRO-new lowbie content, and dismissive of new endgame content as "pointless crap," what exactly is it? Feel free to break it completely down and tell everyone exactly what it is; I'm curious as to your interpretation.
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The devs decided the move they were going to make was the move designed to give NEW players something to do with the game they just bought. It doesn't make any sense at all to market a game to potential new players and tell them "Oh, you need to get to level 50 before you can do the stuff we did in this expansion." Sure, they could have done both lowbie content AND endgame content, but I would wager that if they had done that, both bits of content would suck because they rushed through it. I can't speak for everyone, but I would rather have a smaller amount of GOOD content than a larger amount of pointless crap any day of the week. |
The devs chose to focus on low end content in order to attract more new customers.
Now why would they do that? because new customers start out with level 1 characters not level 50's.
Then Claws acknowledges that the devs could have worked on both low and high end content but doing so would probably mean that all the stuff would suck. So rather than getting content that was crappy across the board he'd rather see the devs focus on a small amount of content and do it right.
And if you want an example of crappy incomplete content the devs have given us when they didn't focus on doing it right you only have to look at the VEAT content and compare it to the HEAT content.
Besides we already know that the endgame content people are looking for will be released with I19 when the Incarnate system goes live. Oh and if you are wondering why the Incarnate system was pulled from I18, it was because of PLAYER FEEDBACK DURING CLOSED BETA. That's right, the PLAYERS convinced the devs to hold off implementing the new endgame content until I19.
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I'm willing to wait too, but the longer I wait the more I will be expecting.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
I really want Incarnate content but, I really want it done right. I'm willing to wait for I19 if I have to if that will mean there is A) a way to make my 50s better and B) something to do with my new super tweaked toons.
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That's a reasonable expectation.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I'm willing to wait too, but the longer I wait the more I will be expecting.
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I'm expecting at least 1 TF, new harder enemies, and at least 3 of the known 10 Incarnate slots before Christmas.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I'm willing to wait too, but the longer I wait the more I will be expecting.
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Hell I'll be content with that before Christmas. Though depending how they do the stories for the Incarnate slots we may get a TF for each side.
I know this isn't a popular thing with ya'll but it is still my opinion.
Issue 19: Incarnates
2 New Epic AT's (1 Hero, 1 Villain) Unlocked after Completing the new Level 50 Online Content. (No 46's, 47's, 48's, or 49's)
The New Content: You will enter a new story mode that spans several new and exciting mini story arcs that include Task Forces (8 man), Mini Task Forces (4 man), Raids (24 man), and Regular story arc content.
What sets this Content aside from our normal content in City of Heroes/Villains/Rogues is that it all can be adjusted to your team size, and the rewards will reflect your team size. If you chose to run an 8 man Task Force with only yourself or yourself and a friend your rewards at the end will be lowered than if you ran it on a full team.
So if an 8 man Task Force is completed by 8 people end reward is 6 pieces if Incarnate salvage for each player plus the chance at an epic incarnate salvage piece. (1 in 35 each person)
If you run it Solo, you will get at the end 2 pieces of Incarnate Salvage and a 1 in 100 chance at an epic incarnate salvage piece.
Sorry this makes more sense in my head.
The new story arcs will be consecutive about 200 missions. We are bringing you 25 BRAND NEW Mission Maps, unlike Anything you have seen in our game to date.
We have 10 New Enemy groups for the Incarnate Story arcs, task forces, and raids.
We are offering 6 new TF's/SF's 3 of which will be Co-Op Hero/Villain, and 2 new 24 person Raids..
To me, that would be epic endgame... just epic... and I would pay $49.99 just to have it.
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Honestly, I'm completely confused as to what an "8 man task force" that automatically scales to the size of the team is. Isn't that just a one man task force that scales *up* to the size of the team?|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
I know this isn't a popular thing with ya'll but it is still my opinion.
Issue 19: Incarnates 2 New Epic AT's (1 Hero, 1 Villain) Unlocked after Completing the new Level 50 Online Content. (No 46's, 47's, 48's, or 49's) The New Content: You will enter a new story mode that spans several new and exciting mini story arcs that include Task Forces (8 man), Mini Task Forces (4 man), Raids (24 man), and Regular story arc content. What sets this Content aside from our normal content in City of Heroes/Villains/Rogues is that it all can be adjusted to your team size, and the rewards will reflect your team size. If you chose to run an 8 man Task Force with only yourself or yourself and a friend your rewards at the end will be lowered than if you ran it on a full team. So if an 8 man Task Force is completed by 8 people end reward is 6 pieces if Incarnate salvage for each player plus the chance at an epic incarnate salvage piece. (1 in 35 each person) If you run it Solo, you will get at the end 2 pieces of Incarnate Salvage and a 1 in 100 chance at an epic incarnate salvage piece. Sorry this makes more sense in my head. The new story arcs will be consecutive about 200 missions. We are bringing you 25 BRAND NEW Mission Maps, unlike Anything you have seen in our game to date. We have 10 New Enemy groups for the Incarnate Story arcs, task forces, and raids. We are offering 6 new TF's/SF's 3 of which will be Co-Op Hero/Villain, and 2 new 24 person Raids.. To me, that would be epic endgame... just epic... and I would pay $49.99 just to have it. |
Plus, there's no way the devs will *force* end game content to require teams or teamed content. They'll go so far as to require participation in zone-wide events, but I can't imagine the devs shooting themselves in the head having mandatory teamed paths for end game. They went to great pains to say that this *wasn't* going to be a requirement for the end game system in beta.
I could see the end game system mature in to a giant "200 mission" series of story arcs and other content eventually, but I think players would be setting themselves up for disappointment if they were thinking anything remotely on that scale was possible or reasonable for Issue 19. I think a reasonable target is something on the size and scale of the combined Tina/Maria Praetorian arc, plus a couple of task forces and zone events, plus a bunch of ancillary one-shot missions and short arcs (ala RWZ), at least to start.
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Thank god for that.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Plus, there's no way the devs will *force* end game content to require teams or teamed content. They'll go so far as to require participation in zone-wide events, but I can't imagine the devs shooting themselves in the head having mandatory teamed paths for end game. They went to great pains to say that this *wasn't* going to be a requirement for the end game system in beta.
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PP's dream sounds like my nightmare - running the same TFs and 'raids' over and over again in the hope that I might get some piece of epic loot at the end of it... no thanks. If I wanted to run on that particular treadmill I'd go back to WoW.
I hope they'll consider the team element of this very carefully, and the zone events as well. Nothing shows up how dispersed the population of this game is like a zone event that requires 2 or 3 teams to complete and therefore never gets done after the novelty has worn off (e.g. The Deadly Apocalypse)
And any TF will be speedrun to destruction just as soon as someone works out the strategy to do so.
I'll be fascinated to see how this is implemented, but I do think that whatever happens about half of the playerbase will hate it. Which half remains to be seen.
Um. I said that the end game content scales to your team size... Meaning you are not forced to do any of it on a team, but should you chose to do it on teams, your rewards would scale up to what it would normally be.
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And I said I was confused as to what the difference was between a solo mission, a "mini" 4 player task force, and an 8 player task forces was, if all of them were going to scale from one to eight players and not restrict the minimum team size. It seemed to be skywriting with invisible smoke.|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Um. I said that the end game content scales to your team size... Meaning you are not forced to do any of it on a team, but should you chose to do it on teams, your rewards would scale up to what it would normally be.
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Also, scaling per person rewards upward based on team size in that dramatic a fashion would just put us back to fillers rather than scalers. That would be counter-productive.
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I'm pretty sure that's exactly why P_P suggested it be done that way. She is a dedicated farmer and would rather make farming easier for herself. I can easily see her starting a bunch of trial accounts to act as fillers on her main accounts team so she can get the most from her farming.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Also, scaling per person rewards upward based on team size in that dramatic a fashion would just put us back to fillers rather than scalers. That would be counter-productive.
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And just to be clear I have nothing against people that farm, I'm just stating what extremes I can imagine one person is willing to go to. It's also not a personal attack on her, just an opinion.
As for post #244, let's not be literal to a fault; the entire gist of the post is plainly an argument against adding more end-game content, because everyone will become tired of it in five minutes flat... or some such nonsense. Oh wait.... we will become tired of it in "two months," my bad. Subtlety or nuances? Looked like a broadside anti-endgame argument to me. To wit:
"I can't speak for everyone, but I would rather have a smaller amount of GOOD content than a larger amount of pointless crap any day of the week."
End game content is "pointless crap"? Whatev.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.