Quote:
nothing will make everyone happy, its really up to you do decide whats the breaking point. you dont suggest anything constructive here, so they really cant go on that to improve, but again, it is ultimately subjective, if its not for you, nothing to do but go elsewhere. i played several more popular mmos out there, and found repeatedly that they lacked a combination of elements to make me happy, clearly from the volume of positive threads, some people enjoyed it, so nothing to do but make a choice.|
Originally Posted by Dawk_Boy
I don't like any of the GR crap, the best stuff they released was free issue 18 stuff and there wasn't a lot of that either.
I know people are gonna be butthurt about my post cause lolCoHfanboys but seriously this game and it's developers have nothing to offer anymore. |
i will note that when you post in /4chan speak, you make your own ad hominem against yourself.
Quote:
You're still here? I thought you said you were quitting if you couldn't take your 50's into Praetoria.|
Originally Posted by Dawk_Boy
I don't like any of the GR crap, the best stuff they released was free issue 18 stuff and there wasn't a lot of that either.
I know people are gonna be butthurt about my post cause lolCoHfanboys but seriously this game and it's developers have nothing to offer anymore. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dawk_Boy
I just wanna know can I take my lvl50's to Praetoria or not?
My main characters, my lvl50's that I've loved for 6 years I wanna be able to take those characters and experience the new content with them, not new characters. I've got enough characters. I want something to do with them. Quote:
For good. |
Quote:
Will you be butthurt if we're not butthurt and, in fact, don't care? |
Originally Posted by Dawk_Boy
I don't like any of the GR crap, the best stuff they released was free issue 18 stuff and there wasn't a lot of that either.
I know people are gonna be butthurt about my post cause lolCoHfanboys but seriously this game and it's developers have nothing to offer anymore. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
There are parts of Going Rogue that work for me; Praetoria unfortunately is not really one of them. It's a great setting with exciting missions and a good backstory. It was obviously created with love.
But it's also locked away content that, if I choose to participate in it, locks me in a box in order to justify a final scene of a plot line that could have ended so many different ways, including letting me get back and forth to primal earth at level 1. The writing is quite good but the mechanics do not, IMO, justify secluding players just so it can all end with a tearful goodbye scene. If future updates to the game allow us to move to and from Praetoria at any level, my concern about this particular element will be eased. Given the history of good decisions this game team has made I'm hopeful that is what will eventually happen.
Now in terms of value I can't say I care one way or another what Going Rogue cost. As I write this I have Tropico 3 in my CD drive. I paid $30 for that, played it once for ten minutes and haven't touched it since. I loved the original game, but just didn't find the new game that engaging. I don't feel bad about saying that, just like I don't feel bad about saying there are parts of Going Rogue I don't like. The game designers are still clearly quite talented. City of Heroes is still my favorite video game. But I have to imagine the developers of this game prefer an honest and personal appraisal of their product than empty praise followed by a cancelled account with no explanation (not that that will happen since the main game is still great).
There are things about Going Rogue that are good. New power sets are fun. The expanded APP/PPP stuff is kind of neat. The morality missions are a good alternative to the radio stuff. But I really can't give a thumbs up to the Praetorian zones. They're wonderfully created but, due to current game mechanics, largely irrelevant to me as a player. I don't see my hesitance as a moral failure; the moral failure would be simply saying "This sucks!" or succumbing to the temptation to simply bash people, as some folks on both sides of this debate have resorted to.
Quote:
You post like you're a slightly below average child and you expect us to take you seriously and be upset by your inane prattling?|
Originally Posted by Dawk_Boy
I don't like any of the GR crap, the best stuff they released was free issue 18 stuff and there wasn't a lot of that either.
I know people are gonna be butthurt about my post cause lolCoHfanboys but seriously this game and it's developers have nothing to offer anymore. |
*snerk*
No, i don't think so.
Ta.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I have to say I hate GR. For me, after 3 years straight of playing, the game itself is the same. It is immersion into the lore of the game, and being able to follow the journey of my character that makes the game fun.
To that end, revamping the existing cities would be far preferred (and I'm only speaking for myself here) to creating a whole new world. I can't really get into playing my Praetorian, especially when I realize that he will soon abandon his homeland to be a hero or villain in another world entirely, forever (at least until higher level Praetorian content is created) leaving the world he has been fighting for behind.
Worse, with the devs saying they intend to expand Praetoria it sounds like Paragon City will remain static. I think they would have been far better off to advance storylines in the existing cities, or even adding a new city of super-beings to Prime.
To me, Praetoria is rather like having Star Trek change its focus midseason to a mirror universe crew and abandoning the original premise. It's interesting for a couple episodes but I wouldn't want to watch the series featured there.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
Quote:
I can only assume that after all your previous threats to ragequit because they didn't go out of their way to please Dawk_Boy and Dawk_Boy alone, that you are simply posting for the last few days while your subscription runs out. |
Originally Posted by Dawk_Boy
I don't like any of the GR crap, the best stuff they released was free issue 18 stuff and there wasn't a lot of that either.
I know people are gonna be butthurt about my post cause lolCoHfanboys but seriously this game and it's developers have nothing to offer anymore. |
If that is NOT the case, please stop being such a hypocrite and leave already. I mean, seriously, if the game is that bad, stop complaining about it on the official forums for it, and just leave.
K?
Thanks, and have a good one
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
You quoted what I had to say about Ultra Mode. Where did I state that it was not content? |
Originally Posted by ViralShard
I can empathize with your financial situation, however because one either chooses not to or is unable to experience content doesn't make the content not so.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ViralShard
""The small number of missions that allow you to complete all of the contacts missions and not being at level to pass on to next contact (Completed all of the starter missions at level 3.)."
I feel this is subjective as my personal experience was that the contacts were leveled perfectly |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ViralShard
Emphasis mine.
A couple of your 'facts' actually aren't. "Mostly just a repainted world." |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ViralShard
Some of your points I even concede to and agree with but I feel you are unfairly misrepresenting the content of the expansion.
|
If you think GR is impressive then lay out the reasons why you think so. I showed you mine, how about you show me yours. This is pretty much what I said in my first post. So far all you have done is to try to devalue my opinion by essentially arguing that it's not yours.
Quote:
In an MMO*RPG*, story and immersion is most important. The devs created a world with lore and according to that lore, wouldn't make sense for hundreds of non-aligned extra-dimensional characters that range for the heroic to world-dominating villains to be running around in...yet. The war hasn't started yet but when it does, then so will the world change.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
There are parts of Going Rogue that work for me; Praetoria unfortunately is not really one of them. It's a great setting with exciting missions and a good backstory. It was obviously created with love.
But it's also locked away content that, if I choose to participate in it, locks me in a box in order to justify a final scene of a plot line that could have ended so many different ways, including letting me get back and forth to primal earth at level 1. The writing is quite good but the mechanics do not, IMO, justify secluding players just so it can all end with a tearful goodbye scene. If future updates to the game allow us to move to and from Praetoria at any level, my concern about this particular element will be eased. Given the history of good decisions this game team has made I'm hopeful that is what will eventually happen. |
It's not a tearful goodbye but the precipice of war. It makes sense that they put a break in there (although I probably would have thought lvl 30 would be that point but then, people would be complaining they're 'locked in a box' too long).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
To that end, revamping the existing cities would be far preferred (and I'm only speaking for myself here) to creating a whole new world. I can't really get into playing my Praetorian, especially when I realize that he will soon abandon his homeland to be a hero or villain in another world entirely, forever (at least until higher level Praetorian content is created) leaving the world he has been fighting for behind.
Worse, with the devs saying they intend to expand Praetoria it sounds like Paragon City will remain static. I think they would have been far better off to advance storylines in the existing cities, or even adding a new city of super-beings to Prime. |
Maybe it's just me, but Paragon City is plain boring. The architecture is pretty similar and bland after seeing it copied throughout the half dozen other nearly identical zones....but it makes sense that a city would use a uniform architectural style, for the most part. That's why I like the direction the devs are going. Rather than just adding to Paragon City, they give you 'worlds' with different looks and their own current events that may or may not be intrinsically linked to Paragon City (because why the heck should everything have to revolve around only that place?).
Playing through some missions in Cimerora, on a lvl 40 character, I got to thinking how small the place was. Why was that? You're in the past, you should be able to visit a great deal more places...in fact, I think it would have been really cool to be able to *start* in Cimerora at level 1 as a character who is naturally from the past. Add in more zones with European influences (you'd have to come up with something as I'm dry on ideas) for lower levels and add more content to make it possible to simply stay in the past...at least enough so the zone doesn't feel like only 'City of 300'...
I could imagine them doing similar with future expansions...like perhaps a world where you're starting up in a Galactic hub or maybe the Rikti homeworld with the inclination that perhaps you're just not an earthling (from our dimension). All these worlds could eventually span lvls 1-50 and all be linked (so you can take someone from Preatoria and go into space or something) but still gated for lore purposes.
Well I came back to the game after taking a break from it from playing steady 6 years. I went to AoC and have been having a great time there. I also started out with STO but have'nt been that impressed. So I bought the pre release of going Rouge and waited for iit to start and got a invite from NCSoft a couple of weeks from the launch of Going Rouge to play free for a month and so it has been fun to get back and pay up SG rent that has been dormant for 6 mos. and get my alts up to speed. I like the tip missions and I like the subtle moral choices given to play them. I have one vigillante now that is doing enough hero/vigillante missions to keep his 'broken sheild' in place so I can hop back and forth between paragon and the rouge isles. If COH dies after this year I say it has been a great ride and I will not feel too sad....hmmm..maybe a contest to get winning player's alts to star in a animated/cgi movie about Paragon City...that would boost the game!
"We need Cadaver cleanup in back alley 4..."
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Electricrage
Well I came back to the game after taking a break from it from playing steady 6 years. I went to AoC and have been having a great time there. I also started out with STO but have'nt been that impressed. So I bought the pre release of going Rouge and waited for iit to start and got a invite from NCSoft a couple of weeks from the launch of Going Rouge to play free for a month and so it has been fun to get back and pay up SG rent that has been dormant for 6 mos. and get my alts up to speed. I like the tip missions and I like the subtle moral choices given to play them. I have one vigillante now that is doing enough hero/vigillante missions to keep his 'broken sheild' in place so I can hop back and forth between paragon and the rouge isles. If COH dies after this year I say it has been a great ride and I will not feel too sad....hmmm..maybe a contest to get winning player's alts to star in a animated/cgi movie about Paragon City...that would boost the game!
|
Ah yes having fun but still has to get that doom shot in there at the end.
Oy vey.
Quote:
Some folk will believe any ol' nonsense, won't they.
|
Originally Posted by Sunpulse
Many people have come to the same conclusion as I have already.
|
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
So, just because people eventually become blase' about upper level new content, we should just stop adding any? Also, what makes adding entry level newness good, but upper-level newness is just going to become blase' so why bother? Do you never get sick of entry level stuff? I know I've been looking at Kalinda since 2006. I'm pretty blase' about going to kick Operative Burch's posterior for the umpteenth time, I can tell you. |
Somebody: That stuff you're complaining is old and stale. That was endgame content. Any NEW endgame content will stay fresh and exciting.....for maybe two months tops. |
New upper level content helps give people like me incentive to stay subscribed. Sorry you don't see it like that.... but it takes all kinds. I say, give new stuff to EVERYone.
Quote:
Now find the quote where someone said we should stop adding high-end content. Or the statement by the devs that said they weren't adding any more. Or the interview of the devs saying they value low-end content more than high-end content.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
So, just because people eventually become blase' about upper level new content, we should just stop adding any?
|
I'll wait.
Quote:
Please see post #244 of this thread for someone arguing that the game needs no more endgame content; it should all be low level new content because players rapidly become sick of endgame additions. *cue eyeroll here*|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Now find the quote where someone said we should stop adding high-end content. Or the statement by the devs that said they weren't adding any more. Or the interview of the devs saying they value low-end content more than high-end content.
I'll wait. |
I have made no claims as to whether or not the developers have made any statements for or against adding endgame content, or of how highly they value it. I was responding to post #244, and there the matter rests for me. [UNless #244 was authored by a developer, which I kind of doubt
]
Quote:
You mean this post? #244? |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Please see post #244 of this thread for someone arguing that the game needs no more endgame content; it should all be low level new content because players rapidly become sick of endgame additions. *cue eyeroll here*
I have made no claims as to whether or not the developers have made any statements for or against adding endgame content, or of how highly they value it. I was responding to post #244, and there the matter rests for me. [UNless #244 was authored by a developer, which I kind of doubt ] |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Okay, now fast forward a year and a half. Are you sick of that new endgame content that you were begging for yet?
I bet you are. We've been given endgame content several times already. "What endgame content?" you ask? That stuff you're complaining is old and stale. That was endgame content. Any NEW endgame content will stay fresh and exciting.....for maybe two months tops. Once the quickest, most expedient method of completing it for the reward it offers reaches the masses, it will become just as old and stale as everything else. The devs decided the move they were going to make was the move designed to give NEW players something to do with the game they just bought. It doesn't make any sense at all to market a game to potential new players and tell them "Oh, you need to get to level 50 before you can do the stuff we did in this expansion." Sure, they could have done both lowbie content AND endgame content, but I would wager that if they had done that, both bits of content would suck because they rushed through it. I can't speak for everyone, but I would rather have a smaller amount of GOOD content than a larger amount of pointless crap any day of the week. |
Exactly where in it does Claws say the game doesn't need any more endgame content? Please bold and highlight those statements.
Quote:
I really, really disagree with this. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
In an MMO*RPG*, story and immersion is most important. The devs created a world with lore and according to that lore, wouldn't make sense for hundreds of non-aligned extra-dimensional characters that range for the heroic to world-dominating villains to be running around in...yet. The war hasn't started yet but when it does, then so will the world change.
|
First and foremost, I don't agree with your basic premise. While immersion is a very important aspect of MMOs, so is playability. Indeed, I think playability is actually the more important factor, given that we're going to spend a lot of time *playing* the game. For example, from a story perspective, Praetorian characters shouldn't be able to access global chat channels at all. They have no contact with the Primal world, after all. But that would be a real pain, so the problem is handwaved away for playability.
In my view, allowing characters to move between dimensions should have been handwaved as well. Sequestering the playerbase into different camps was one of the biggest mistakes they made when the created CoV. I can't believe that they've decided to repeat it.
But beyond that, I don't think immersion is a very convincing excuse for isolating Praetoria. The devs created the new Praetoria entirely out of wholecloth; it bears no resemblance to the original one. The only reason it's hard (story wise) for characters to move between dimensions is because the devs specifically made it that way. In my view, that was a mistake.
Even within the context of the new Praetorian lore, the rationale for why we're forcibly isolated for 20 levels, then forcibly integrated for the rest, is pretty poor. Tyrant thinks he can successfully invade our dimension despite his minuscule industrial capacity and inferior technological base? Marchand, Cole's head of security, is actively working against this invasion yet he hasn't been killed/disappeared/removed? Moreover, he thinks the best way to stop this invasion is to send people to our world explaining that the soon-to-be invaders are nice guys and just want to be loved? Then he spends the time and money to build a *second* portal just so people who aren't nice guys can run rampant in our world anyway?
Seriously, none of that even pretends to make sense. Combine it with the depressingly inconsistent execution of the "big goodbye" scenes, and I think immersion has no business so much as coughing near playability in this case.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
Quote:
To be fair, the part you're not seeing was either an addendum in B_I's head, or B_I has reading comprehension issues when any subtlety or nuance is involved. Most likely the latter.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You mean this post? #244?
Exactly where in it does Claws say the game doesn't need any more endgame content? Please bold and highlight those statements. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
I find your tone needlessly provocative. Please confine remarks to the matter at hand and eschew personal attacks. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
To be fair, the part you're not seeing was either an addendum in B_I's head, or B_I has reading comprehension issues when any subtlety or nuance is involved. Most likely the latter.
|
As for post #244, let's not be literal to a fault; the entire gist of the post is plainly an argument against adding more end-game content, because everyone will become tired of it in five minutes flat... or some such nonsense. Oh wait.... we will become tired of it in "two months," my bad. Subtlety or nuances? Looked like a broadside anti-endgame argument to me. To wit:
"I can't speak for everyone, but I would rather have a smaller amount of GOOD content than a larger amount of pointless crap any day of the week."
End game content is "pointless crap"? Whatev.
Sign me up for the "I want more endgame content" field trip - I'll get in line. 
Quote:
Translation: What ClawsandEffect actually wrote isn't relevant. B_I has decided it means something entirely different.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
As for post #244, let's not be literal to a fault;
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
To be fair, the part you're not seeing was either an addendum in B_I's head, or B_I has reading comprehension issues when any subtlety or nuance is involved. Most likely the latter.
|
Quote:
I took it more as a comment about the expectations of people who demand "fresh" end-game content, since all such will quickly become un-fresh after a few weeks. Additional content is fine, but to imagine that any dev team born could produce limitless quantities of high-quality, new-feeling stuff to do at that pace at which players will consume it is to descend into self-delusion.
|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Oh wait.... we will become tired of it in "two months," my bad. Subtlety or nuances? Looked like a broadside anti-endgame argument to me.
|
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
The question is that there is no real consensus on what 'Endgame content" means. By definition, it's content that comes at the point where the traditional GAME ENDS. It isn't part of the core game... it's what to do when the core game is over|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I find your tone needlessly provocative. Please confine remarks to the matter at hand and eschew personal attacks.
As for post #244, let's not be literal to a fault; the entire gist of the post is plainly an argument against adding more end-game content, because everyone will become tired of it in five minutes flat... or some such nonsense. Oh wait.... we will become tired of it in "two months," my bad. Subtlety or nuances? Looked like a broadside anti-endgame argument to me. To wit: "I can't speak for everyone, but I would rather have a smaller amount of GOOD content than a larger amount of pointless crap any day of the week." End game content is "pointless crap"? Whatev. |
In the past, devs have addressed it many ways:
- "PvP is the endgame"
- "You many stop leveling the character, but you never stop interacting with the world" common with world-y games.
- "Raids. Big... massive... one-wrong-step-and-everyone-dies-raids."
- "There is no end... advancement just gets slower and slower and slower..." and if you reach the cap, you probably need an intervention. (you usually don't have content outlevel you in these ones, so you're just out there fighting what everyone else is fighting... only more effectively)
- "Raids... leaner, smaller, more tolerant raids, but still raids."
Now, when you look at preconceived notions on MMO's... WoW's ways are seen as the "standard" -- not because most dev's do it the way WoW did-- (really fast leveling + smaller, leaner raids + increase leveling cap to newer smaller leaner raids) but because thats what the players have experienced. My WoW-playing friends often say "the game begins at the endgame" without the slightest bit of irony intended.
That's a problem.
CoH came out before WoW and had it's own ideas on how to handle the end-of-advancement that weren't copied off of WoW's.... People coming to this game with WoW expectations race through what they see, reach the endgame, then look around waiting for the game to begin.
There isn't one.
Here, reaching the end you'll find a few raidlike events, several task forces, and the ability to do any of the dozen odd task/strike forces that auto-exemplar you. There are options to do story arcs you missed via Ouroboros -even apply difficulty options to challenge yourself-- or an endless supply of newspaper missions -- or regular repeatable content so you can chase after the very rare purple recipes. There are Architect Entertainment stories that you can play or MAKE. ...or you can roll an alt.
That's the devs' "endgame"- keep playing the game that you've enjoyed this far.
It doesn't offer a dramatic shift in tactics that raids often do. ( You have slight shifts that make strike/task forces more effective but not a big re-learning of the game). It doesn't raise the level cap (which, they've said before, is already hitting the ceiling of what existing mechanics allow). It doesn't give a clear and concise path... just a variety of things similar to what you did during your leveling experience for you to choose between. *
For many/most of us disagreeing in this thread, that's the best endgame they could offer.
*Incarnates DOES seem to be directed toward more "endgame-ish" activity.... but we know too little now to say whether it'll provide the experience you're looking for.
Quote:
Right. At a convention, I overheard a MMO developer quip that he could probably make all-new content for an average player if he had:|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
I took it more as a comment about the expectations of people who demand "fresh" end-game content, since all such will quickly become un-fresh after a few weeks. Additional content is fine, but to imagine that any dev team born could produce limitless quantities of high-quality, new-feeling stuff to do at that pace at which players will consume it is to descend into self-delusion.
|
- a subscription fee at triple to quadruple the current rate,
- a stable playerbase at a million strong,
- a parent company that would be OK with low profits and little or ROI,
- a staff focused on just creating content and server stability not new tech or coding alternate game mechanics
- no fancy things like voice talent
... there was more, but I have a terrible memory. Needless to say, he wasn't serious- just was illustrating what was really necessary to an overenthusiastic, but not quite aware player.
I know people are gonna be butthurt about my post cause lolCoHfanboys but seriously this game and it's developers have nothing to offer anymore.
NCsoft Account Management